Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[legalmomma]

Murder, Homicide, Assault, and Mental State - Louisville Kentucky Law Firm

Law Blog - The mental state of a criminal defendant can seriously affect the outcome of a criminal case. In fact, it can be determinative. Mental state is so

louisvillefirm.com

This is a good summary by a Kentucky law firm explaining extreme emotional disturbance. The burden is on the prosecution to prove there was NOT extreme emotional disturbance or the murder charge may be reduced to manslaughter in the first degree.

 

[Harriett_Eva]

A judge won't give an instruction that it is an option, and would remove any juror who hinted at such.

That’s how it is around here, wasn’t sure if it was a national surreptitious option

 

[Harriett_Eva]

Murder, Homicide, Assault, and Mental State - Louisville Kentucky Law Firm

Law Blog - The mental state of a criminal defendant can seriously affect the outcome of a criminal case. In fact, it can be determinative. Mental state is so

louisvillefirm.com

This is a good summary by a Kentucky law firm explaining extreme emotional disturbance. The burden is on the prosecution to prove there was NOT extreme emotional disturbance or the murder charge may be reduced to manslaughter in the first degree.

Thank you- that is very helpful

 

[Seattle1]

Here is just a little nugget that may mean nothing or it may mean the defense attorney is trying to change the narrative.
It has been reported all over mainstream media that the Sheriff said two things after he walked out of the judge's chambers and surrendered. He said, "Treat me fair," and "They're trying to kidnap my wife and kid." Yet when the defense lawyer was interviewed on Crime Fix from the Law and Crime Network, the defense attorney said, "And you take that in companion with the statement that our client felt like his wife AND (BBM) his daughter was in danger, then we think there is certainly something there that is going to support our contention that Mr. Stines felt as though he had to act."
That's not what the sheriff said. He said, "They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter." I know I am splitting hairs, but maybe not.
Listen to the video starting at @17:05

For clarification purposes, I don't believe the statements by Stines were anywhere near as simultaneous as as presented by OP.

Lead detective Clayton Stamper, KSP, testified that he arrived at the Courthouse later than the others. He believes Trooper Jason Bates was the first KSP personnel on scene, followed by Detective Chris Collins, Detective Scott (?), Detective Eric Caldwell and then Stamper.

Under direct examination, Stamper testified that when he arrived, he observed Stines to appear mostly calm. Stamper talked to him, he was kind of afraid that... basically all he said was 'treat me fair,' that's basically the comments he made.

On the other hand, Stamper wasn't present, and did not hear the alleged comments by Stines about "They're trying to kidnap my wife and kid." During the preliminary hearing, Stamper testified on this hearsay evidence -- statements Stines allegedly made when he was taken into custody that Stamper heard from other Investigators.

Relative to Stines wife and child being in danger, first, Stines is the County Sheriff, and by all accounts a family man. Seems to me that if his family was in danger, Stines would be busting down the walls to the protect them and get to whoever was threatening them immediately. But here, upon taking down Mullins, Stines isn't anxious or worried, but instead he's observed by Stamper to be calm, and concerned about being treated fair.

I'd say that in Stines mind, the danger to his family was gone -- and there was no more threat. JMO

Please reference the preliminary hearing transcript by @Allabouttrial linked in the MEDIA thread.

 

[Harriett_Eva]

Stines isn't anxious or worried, but instead he's observed by Stamper to be calm, and concerned about being treated fair.

I'd say that in Stines mind, the danger to his family was gone -- and there was no more threat. JMO

That was how I was seeing things as well, although you articulated it much better-

 

[Warwick7]

"A spokesman for the Kentucky State Police, the agency investigating the shooting, has said the shooting occurred after an argument but has not identified a possible motive."

Argument at lunch? Or argument in the chambers. Either way it doesn't sound like it was a "Hey can I bump your phone to call my daughter?"

Deadly shooting of Kentucky judge at courthouse was captured on video

Former Letcher County Sheriff Mickey Stines has been charged with murder.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Warwick7]

Interesting...

"A woman reportedly employed by the Letcher County Sheriff’s Office also gave her phone to investigators to be examined. Stamper testified that she was one of Stines’ employees and believed she’d received text messages from Stines that detailed what occurred at lunch and ultimately led to the shooting."

https://www.wjhl.com/news/video-shows-courthouse-shooting-that-took-the-life-of-letcher-county-judge

 

[Warwick7]

"He was mostly calm [after the shooting]," Stamper said. "I talked to him, but he didn't say anything about why this happened. He was calm. Kind of afraid. Basically all he said was, 'Treat me fair.'"

He wanted to be treated fair. Were there then extenuating circumstances because someone was trying to take his wife and daughter??

New details revealed in court about what happened before Kentucky sheriff fatally shot judge

Former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines appeared in court on Tuesday and is facing a murder charge.

www.whas11.com

 

[Knox]

This is from the transcript provided by @Allabouttrial, which has been added to the Media Thread for this case. And it's one part of the hearing that I find very confusing. If Detective Stamper's words here can be taken literally (and they should be, since it's sworn testimony), then we have to believe that after Sheriff Stines shot the judge, he surrendered and was taken into custody, booked into jail, and locked up, and that since all that happened, not one officer or detective or anybody in LE sat down with him and questioned him or took a statement or affidavit from him or held an interview with him or brought him in to the interrogation room or anything!

The defense attorney sounded like he found this perplexing as well. He clarified that this is what Stamper was saying, and also made sure to note that the reason he was not questioned was NOT because he had requested an attorney or asserted his right to keep silent and not answer questions without an attorney present. But for some reason, no one ever went back to wherever they put him and asked him anything or for a written statement or anything else! Isn't that unusual? I thought it was S O P to always question a suspect in custody, but maybe not. Here's the relevant part of the transcript:

DEFENSE - Did you attempt to speak to Sheriff Stines at the Leslie County jail after the incident?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Did anyone from your agency attempt to interview him?

DETECTIVE - Not to my knowledge, no.

DEFENSE - At and that point, have you asserted his right to an attorney or anything?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Nobody went back and tried to talk to him or do an interview?

DETECTIVE - No.

(and then he moves on to a new topic)

Thank you.

 

[Seattle1]

If someone shoots a judge and says "They are trying to kidnap my wife and kid" that sounds almost paranoid to me. Why would a judge be kidnapping his wife and kid? It sounds exaggerated. But if someone says, " My wife and child were in danger" that would make me think something else was going on. Something more understandable. It is an easier statement to hear. All my opinion of course.

I think to those who knew these men, such a statement coming from Stines would be laughable, if not so tragic. The idea that Mullins was trying to kidnap or would be behind the kidnapping of Stines family seems delusional. I dunno, maybe it was a self serving statement by Stines...or maybe Stamper got the words wrong (this was hearsay)!

Personally, I think it's why SM would rather believe the rumors than believe Stines was paranoid, and possibly having serious, personal issues at home. We know Stines' LE career was coming to an end (he announced he wasn't seeking re-election)-- coinciding with empty nest, i.e., daughter graduating high school soon.

Having just watched a preview of Netflix "Jailbreak" -- Stines somewhat reminds me of Vicky White -- the Asst Director of Operations at the Lauderdale County Detention Center in Florence, Alabama. Similar to Stines, you couldn't find anybody who would say a bad word about Vicky, her dedication to the job, her family, her friends, and the underlying fear in town about how things were going to get done when she announced her retirement and turned in her papers. What the community wasn't aware of was that Vicky was cracking at the seams. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

"He was mostly calm [after the shooting]," Stamper said. "I talked to him, but he didn't say anything about why this happened. He was calm. Kind of afraid. Basically all he said was, 'Treat me fair.'"

He wanted to be treated fair. Were there then extenuating circumstances because someone was trying to take his wife and daughter??

New details revealed in court about what happened before Kentucky sheriff fatally shot judge

Former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines appeared in court on Tuesday and is facing a murder charge.

www.whas11.com

Good to see you here @Warwick7. Hope life's been
in your corner of the earth.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think to those who knew these men, such a statement coming from Stines would be laughable, if not so tragic. The idea that Mullins was trying to kidnap or would be behind the kidnapping of Stines family seems delusional. I dunno, maybe it was a self serving statement by Stines...or maybe Stamper got the words wrong (this was hearsay)!

Personally, I think it's why SM would rather believe the rumors than believe Stines was paranoid, and possibly having serious, personal issues at home. We know Stines' LE career was coming to an end (he announced he wasn't seeking re-election)-- coinciding with empty nest, i.e., daughter graduating high school soon.

Having just watched a preview of Netflix "Jailbreak" -- Stines somewhat reminds me of Vicky White -- the Asst Director of Operations at the Lauderdale County Detention Center in Florence, Alabama. Similar to Stines, you couldn't find anybody who would say a bad word about Vicky, her dedication to the job, her family, her friends, and the underlying fear in town about how things were going to get done when she announced her retirement and turned in her papers. What the community wasn't aware of was that Vicky was cracking at the seams. MOO

Did he actually announce he was not seeking re-election prior to him killing the judge? His term is not up until 2026.
It would seem premature to me. Usually they confide behind the scenes to party insiders, then publicly state they are not running around the filing period.

 

[Harriett_Eva]

"He was mostly calm [after the shooting]," Stamper said. "I talked to him, but he didn't say anything about why this happened. He was calm. Kind of afraid. Basically all he said was, 'Treat me fair.'"

He wanted to be treated fair. Were there then extenuating circumstances because someone was trying to take his wife and daughter??

New details revealed in court about what happened before Kentucky sheriff fatally shot judge

Former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines appeared in court on Tuesday and is facing a murder charge.

www.whas11.com

If hypothetically there were to be deep corruption, to the point that I just unloaded my clip on my dear friend and coworker, and he didn’t know who was playing for which “team” he might not deny or even regret what he did given the information he had and circumstances that he found himself in…

A statement akin to I want to be treated fair- could sound like a call or cry for justice and don’t judge me until you have all the information

MOO

 

[Harriett_Eva]

"A spokesman for the Kentucky State Police, the agency investigating the shooting, has said the shooting occurred after an argument but has not identified a possible motive."

Argument at lunch? Or argument in the chambers. Either way it doesn't sound like it was a "Hey can I bump your phone to call my daughter?"

Deadly shooting of Kentucky judge at courthouse was captured on video

Former Letcher County Sheriff Mickey Stines has been charged with murder.

www.nbcnews.com

Could be- hey can you do this records search or check this out for me… from the Sheriff to verify or vet info he obtained at lunch … MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Did he actually announce he was not seeking re-election prior to him killing the judge? His term is not up until 2026.
It would seem premature to me. Usually they confide behind the scenes to party insiders, then publicly state they are not running around the filing period.

Yes, it was linked in the earlier thread. It came up when Stines went public with his support of a local venue to receive a liquor license, and he wanted the public to know he (i.e., the Sheriff's Office) would not benefit from this because he would not be seeking another term as Sheriff. He also said he was going to retire (from LE), and was thinking about going to law school. The County Sheriff's operational budget is different than I've ever seen-- it's like a self funded budget. MOO

 

[Warwick7]

Good to see you here @Warwick7. Hope life's been View attachment 535482
in your corner of the earth.

Thank you @Seattle1 !!
This case, as well as S. Boone has me very intrigued!!

 

[Harriett_Eva]

The only question that would need to be answered at trial would be "would a reasonable person in the same or similar circumstances feel extreme emotional disturbance to the level excusing a person from the murder."

Still dense- and pre-appreciate your patience-

Would this same logic extrapolate to also include a potential manslaughter charge? If a reasonable person in the same circumstance feel extreme emotional disturbance and excuse a person from manslaughter?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I was under the impression that the calls were answered, so I had another look at @Allabouttrial ’s handy transcript from the first thread. I think the following is what led me to that impression:

DEFENSE - Did you conduct an interview with Sheriff Stine's daughter?

DETECTIVE - I did not but she has been interviewed.

<Snip>

DEFENSE - Do you intend to intended obtain records for her cell phone number?

DETECTIVE - Possibly, yes.

DEFENSE - Do you believe that that would be soon that you'll do that?

DETECTIVE - Could be, yes.

DEFENSE - Had you ever intended to do that or did you just... respond to my question?

DETECTIVE - Well, the call should be on the Judge's records too and she's made statements about what occurred during those conversations.

Bbm.

That last sentence is definitely ambiguous. The phrase “during those conversations” could refer to either

1. during the conversations LS had with MS on his and the judge’s phones, or

2. during the conversations LS had with the interviewers. I do tend to lean toward the first reading. Jmo.

My thought was different -- I think the daughter was referring to the conversations between herself and Mullins that took place some time prior to the shooting and were the source/reason why her number was in the judge's contacts/on his phone in the first place. MOO on that though.

If someone shoots a judge and says "They are trying to kidnap my wife and kid" that sounds almost paranoid to me. Why would a judge be kidnapping his wife and kid? It sounds exaggerated. But if someone says, " My wife and child were in danger" that would make me think something else was going on. Something more understandable. It is an easier statement to hear. All my opinion of course.

I think we need to find out with certainty whether that's exactly what Stines said or whether Stamper was paraphrasing -- IIRC there was some discussion upthread about whether Stines had actually said something like "they're trying to *TAKE* my wife and kid -- which is a word with much broader meaning than *kidnap* -- it could even refer to the wife/kid being persuaded to do something "merely" against Stines' wishes, rather than a literal physical kidnapping.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Did he actually announce he was not seeking re-election prior to him killing the judge? His term is not up until 2026.
It would seem premature to me. Usually they confide behind the scenes to party insiders, then publicly state they are not running around the filing period.

Also, when Stines ran for Sheriff in 2018, he was seeking to replace the County's longest reigning Sheriff ever -- Danny Ray Webb. Webb was retiring from LE after 46 years, 16 as the Sheriff of Letcher County. I dunno -- seems there are some suspicious, unsolved crimes in this area during those years including the 2000 homicide of Jackie Blair (which has a WS thread), and I wondered if Stines always planned to only be a two term Sheriff. It's becoming more and more like a mini Murdaugh saga nestled in the holler. MOO

Sheriff Webb: ‘It went by fast’ - The Mountain Eagle

The first week of next month, Letcher County’s sheriff will take off his badge and retire after 46 years as state trooper and county sheriff. Sheriff Danny Ray Webb is the only sheriff in the county’s history to have entered office as a police academy graduate, and the only one to serve more...

www.themountaineagle.com

 

[Live_and_Learn]

FBI investigates Addiction Recovery Care in Kentucky for possible health care fraud

Addiction Recovery Care, or ARC, runs over 30 treatment centers in Kentucky. Now it’s under federal scrutiny.

www.lpm.org