Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

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al66pine said:
- The item on floor underneath desk corner, close to judge's feet. Has 2 black wheels, connected to hinged arm, w bulldozer bucket on end. Mining related? Toy or model?
Click to expand...
It's a dolly for files and likely has a lamp. Someone answered that question earlier in this thread.
 
fsngruv said:
From the beginning I've wondered if the sheriff wasn't involved in a larger more criminal conspiracy and the information asked during his deposition probably fueled the fear that he might be charged criminally or be involved in a felony investigation, after all, afaik, witnesses are privy to the questions asked in a deposition well before the actual deposition.
Click to expand...
^^rsbm

To my knowledge, the Sheriff was only party to one recent deposition and that was as a defendant in the civil lawsuit brought by the victims of former deputy Fields.

IMO, we know two things about this civil lawsuit. First, Stines was named a defendant in his official capacity as Sheriff, and second, the AG's Motion to quash the Plaintiffs subpoena requesting unredacted files from the criminal proceeding resulting in a mediated agreement to complete discovery, was was granted by the Court (docket #113). The Plaintiff had other means to seek the information.

Given Official-capacity civil suits are simply “another way of pleading an action against an entity of which an officer is an agent” -- making Stines nothing more than a figure head,
pursuant to Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 166 (1985), and rules prohibiting witnesses from being questioned during depositions on topics they won't be questioned on during trial, I don't see Stines defense attorney (J Shaw) allowing anything being suggested by OP to occur during Stines otherwise overdue deposition by the Plaintiff! MOO


 
PrairieWind said:
So having actual campaign sings in his chambers isn't really proper. Its a small community, and I dont think it was a big deal, but it isn't something that should be done. We don't know why the sign was there. But given that he was smoking in his chambers, in a government building, could show that the Judge Mullins sort of played a bit fast and lose with rules. "Rule for thee, not for me."
Click to expand...
^^rsbm

Lol.. Just looking at Mullins overloaded desk (which would cause me to break out in hives ;)), I'm not sure he even noticed that there was a campaign sign on the floor between the wall and his desk! JMO
 
Seattle1 said:
Plaintiffs subpoena requesting unredacted files from the criminal proceeding resulting in a mediated agreement to complete discovery, was was granted by the Court (docket #113). The Plaintiff had other means to seek the information.
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Bbm
Except that plaintiffs tried to and could not obtain the unredacted documents from Fields’s criminal attorney because they could not be located. I’m not arguing with the judge’s decision, but I sure don’t blame a frustrated plaintiffs’ attorney in a civil case for being frustrated when the unredacted documents could not be located by the obvious other source.

Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/111/adkins-v-fields/

Here is the text:

“Plaintiffs obtained heavily redacted records from the Attorney General’s office earlier this year and have shared these documents with the parties to this action. The redactioin of these records2 makes it difficult for Plaintiffs to ascertain the full breadth of information contained in these records which relate directly to Plaintiffs’ claims in the case sub judice. Plaintiffs worked

<RSBM for continuity>

diligently to obtain these documents through discovery from Defendant Fields, but have been told the Defendant Fields’ criminal attorney, who purportedly has had health issues recently, was unable to locate these documents. As such, and after much discussion with all counsel in this
action, the parties agreed that the best course was to obtain these records through subpoena to the Attorney General’s office.”

I think we all agree that the deputy’s actions were despicable. No doubt. But to the extent that there were significant redactions from the documents that appeared to directly apply to the civil case, and since the less redacted documents were provided to Fields’ criminal defense attorney but they could not be supplied by the criminal attorney to the civil attorney, it is also no doubt that the civil attorney’s curiosity was piqued.

However, I agree completely with @Seattle1 ’s point that the parties were prepared to go to mediation immediately before the shooting of KM. Immediately after the shooting, however, a stay was requested by both parties and approved by the judge in the civil case.

That’s the long. The short is this: there very well could be material in those documents that connects MS to others. Or maybe there’s nothing there. Clearly, the plaintiffs in the civil case have decided to wait for their payout in the belief that *something* is there that would increase their chances for more money. Not at all sure if that could involve KM or not.

All Moo.

Edit for clarity
 
Knox said:
Pardon my morbid comment, but there is no blood seen in the video at all. Particularly the last shot where he walks out, that appears to possibly be a head shot?
Click to expand...

Graphic :



There must have been blood spatter on the walls, correct ?


From the link :
In the first videos that were shown, the more pixelated and blue-ish version, there appears to be a red mist twice.
Could have been the colors of the security video camera, though ?

This latest version from @Friday Fan is more clear, and it appears that the video is edited at least three times.
Prob. for privacy reasons.

The jury will most likely view it in it's entirety.
Regardless of what Stines' defense will come up with, this was murder, not manslaughter/self-defense/etc. .
Omo.
 
Last edited:
Kudzuu said:
I think the desk and chair could obscure blood MOO. And the caliber and type of bullet is a factor. MS is a big man and the gun looks small in his hands but he wasn't open carrying from what I could tell. I carried a .380 semi automatic loaded with hollow point bullets. Small gun that hides well but packs a punch. Quite a few men like them too.

Now I'm wondering if that is why the judge looked so surprised and threw his hands up as if to say "Wait a minute!" He also said something before MS aimed at him.

I couldn't tell if MS said something first. For my theory that's pretty important.

MOO.
Click to expand...
Bbm.

A lip reader may be able to tell ?
Imo.
There's a LR who can decipher some world war 1 footage and possible understand what the soldiers are saying.
Amazing talent.
Omo.
 
Chimera said:
Graphic :



There must have been blood spatter on the walls, correct ?


From the link :
In the first videos that were shown, the more pixelated and blue-ish version, there appears to be a red mist twice.
Could have been the colors of the security video camera, though ?
This latest version is more clear and it appears that the video is edited at least three times.
Prob. for privacy reasons.

The jury will most likely view it in it's entirety.
Regardless of what Stines' defense will come up with, this was murder, not manslaughter/self-defense/etc. .
Omo.
Click to expand...
The bluish video is "video of a video" that was shown in court. (Like when people take videos from across their room of something on their TV) Hence that's probably why it's blue and why the judge's chambers looked so small.

In court, it probably had normal colors, but when it was filmed it came out bluish etc. I hope I'm explaining correctly.
 
Seattle1 said:
ABSOULUTELY NOT, and apologize for whatever OP read in my post that caused OP to question this!

ETA: No intent to feed any conspiracy sort either...
Click to expand...
Appreciate it! You said you disagree, wasn't quite sure what you were referring to, so I provided clarity so thanks for yours! It's always good to be near the same page during a discussion. :)
 
Parsnip said:
Bbm
Except that plaintiffs tried to and could not obtain the unredacted documents from Fields’s criminal attorney because they could not be located. I’m not arguing with the judge’s decision, but I sure don’t blame a frustrated plaintiffs’ attorney in a civil case for being frustrated when the unredacted documents could not be located by the obvious other source.

Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/111/adkins-v-fields/

Here is the text:

“Plaintiffs obtained heavily redacted records from the Attorney General’s office earlier this year and have shared these documents with the parties to this action. The redactioin of these records2 makes it difficult for Plaintiffs to ascertain the full breadth of information contained in these records which relate directly to Plaintiffs’ claims in the case sub judice. Plaintiffs worked

<RSBM for continuity>

diligently to obtain these documents through discovery from Defendant Fields, but have been told the Defendant Fields’ criminal attorney, who purportedly has had health issues recently, was unable to locate these documents. As such, and after much discussion with all counsel in this
action, the parties agreed that the best course was to obtain these records through subpoena to the Attorney General’s office.”

I think we all agree that the deputy’s actions were despicable. No doubt. But to the extent that there were significant redactions from the documents that appeared to directly apply to the civil case, and since the less redacted documents were provided to Fields’ criminal defense attorney but they could not be supplied by the criminal attorney to the civil attorney, it is also no doubt that the civil attorney’s curiosity was piqued.

However, I agree completely with @Seattle1 ’s point that the parties were prepared to go to mediation immediately before the shooting of KM. Immediately after the shooting, however, a stay was requested by both parties and approved by the judge in the civil case.

That’s the long. The short is this: there very well could be material in those documents that connects MS to others. Or maybe there’s nothing there. Clearly, the plaintiffs in the civil case have decided to wait for their payout in the belief that *something* is there that would increase their chances for more money. Not at all sure if that could involve KM or not.

All Moo.

Edit for clarity
Click to expand...

Not to get in the weeds here especially as I don't think the Civil Action has any relevance, but I don't think the Plaintiff's attorney is being completely honest. The Grand Jury employed by the KY criminal statute, and the criminal rules of procedure, is secret for a reason, and investigation files should remain secret and/or sealed post prosecution for a just reason.

Second, this civil action was filed in Federal Court and as a matter of law, the Commonwealth of KY, cannot be sued in this jurisdiction (has no standing) thus the federal doctrine of sovereign immunity precludes the Plaintiffs’ subpoena. And it's not like the OAG ignored the Plaintiff and/or the spirit of Discovery!

For the Plaintiff's attorney to imply as much and/or hide behind a complaint of redaction is not true-- no matter how a much a lawyer looking for cash grab tries to paint it as such. I say shame on him!

^^This from the same guy who recently went on camera to throw shade at murdered Judge Mullins because he would not recuse himself when his clients, who were were victims of an assault that occurred inside his Chambers, had an unrelated criminal case before him.

Mullins was the only District Court Judge in a small County where countless defendants appeared and re-appeared before him on numerous occasions. You don't get a new Judge every time you chose to offend in the same County! MOO

3 Pursuant to the Kentucky Open Records Act, Ky. Rev. Stat. §§ 61.870 to 61.884, the Office of the Kentucky Attorney General (“OAG”) has already produced approximately 25,000 pages of documents to Plaintiffs’ counsel, in response to a request for “copies of the investigative file regarding Ben Fields, Letcher Circuit Action No. 22-CR-216, to specifically include the investigative file of Det. Matt Easter [of the] Department of Criminal Investigations [(“DCI”)].” As allowed by the Open Records Act, Ky. Rev. Stat. § 61.878(1)(a), in producing the documents, OAG redacted certain information of a personal nature from the DCI file, including photos of the victims which may reveal their identity; photos of places or items that may identify the victims; names and nicknames of the victims; personal telephone numbers, email addresses, physical addresses, social security numbers, and dates of birth; and driver license numbers, license plate numbers, VIN numbers, financial account information, and passwords. No documents have been produced to Plaintiffs’ counsel from OSP.

For footnote, reference docket #113 previously linked.
 
Wheeled Item in Office.
PrairieWind said:
I don't think that is a dolly with lamp. I think it is what it appears to be.
Click to expand...
@PrairieWind Thx for responding. I'm out of guesses.
What does the wheeled item* appear to be to you? TiA

__________
* ??? Item on floor w 2 black wheels visible seems to have (or connect to) a hinged arm w something on end of it. Easily visible on vid at 10 sec. & later.
 
Seattle1 said:
Not to get in the weeds here
Click to expand...
I will avoid the weeds here, but imo, the case and timing are worth exploring. The AG’s response made sense, imo. It may not be relevant, again, imo. The actual relevance, if any, would come out in time. I will drop it for now just because if anything, it goes to mindset, precipitating factors, and maybe motive of MS. Links have been provided in prior posts for those interested in exploring this connection between the civil trial and MS executing KM.
 
al66pine said:
Wheeled Item in Office.

@PrairieWind Thx for responding. I'm out of guesses.
What does the wheeled item* appear to be to you? TiA

__________
* ??? Item on floor w 2 black wheels visible seems to have (or connect to) a hinged arm w something on end of it. Easily visible on vid at 10 sec. & later.
Click to expand...
I think it is a child's excavator toy. I don't know why it is in the courthouse. But that is what it appears to be to me. The bucket with the two bars attached to it is exactly like my kids'. And it took only a few moments of online search to find a yellow one on wheels.

www.ebay.com

Kid Ride on Sand Digger 4-Wheels Outdoor Sand Toy Excavator W/360 Rotatable Seat | eBay

360 degrees rotatable seat. ● All Terrain Wheels: Rolling wheels encourages kids to move around to gain new perspective on task. A perfect toy for your children when playing with the beach. Material:Carbon steel + Plastic.
www.ebay.com
 
PrairieWind said:
I think it is a child's excavator toy. I don't know why it is in the courthouse. But that is what it appears to be to me. The bucket with the two bars attached to it is exactly like my kids'. And it took only a few moments of online search to find a yellow one on wheels.

www.ebay.com

Kid Ride on Sand Digger 4-Wheels Outdoor Sand Toy Excavator W/360 Rotatable Seat | eBay

360 degrees rotatable seat. ● All Terrain Wheels: Rolling wheels encourages kids to move around to gain new perspective on task. A perfect toy for your children when playing with the beach. Material:Carbon steel + Plastic.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
For age group 4-12. His obit did not mention grandchildren.
Wonder why he had a kid toy on his office?
 
fsngruv said:
Appreciate it! You said you disagree, wasn't quite sure what you were referring to, so I provided clarity so thanks for yours! It's always good to be near the same page during a discussion. :)
Click to expand...
^^bbm

OK, great! :)
(I'd emboldened the part of OP's quoted post where I disagreed -- implying Stines negligent or felonious actions or if he did something criminal, expecting a pass by Mullins).

I think this shooting has the hallmark of something Stines perceived to be very personal, non-negotiable. MOO
 
Item. Child's Excavator Toy?
PrairieWind said:
I think it is a child's excavator toy. I don't know why it is in the courthouse. But that is what it appears to be to me. The bucket with the two bars attached to it is exactly like my kids'. And it took only a few moments of online search to find a yellow one on wheels.

www.ebay.com

Kid Ride on Sand Digger 4-Wheels Outdoor Sand Toy Excavator W/360 Rotatable Seat | eBay

360 degrees rotatable seat. ● All Terrain Wheels: Rolling wheels encourages kids to move around to gain new perspective on task. A perfect toy for your children when playing with the beach. Material:Carbon steel + Plastic.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
@PrairieWind Thank you very much.

From my original post:
"... close to judge's feet. Has 2 black wheels, connected to hinged arm, w bulldozer bucket on end. Mining related? Toy or model?"
Going back to this idea ^ for now.

@PrairieWind Again thx for taking time to search.
The possibility of a child RIDE-ON SIZE excavator simply did not occur to me.

Why didn't manuf'r's make cool toys like ^ when I was the right age?
And the right weight, under 110 pounds? LOL ;)
 
Last edited:
al66pine said:
ITEMS in OFFICE?
Difficult for me to identify some, not that they're necessarily relevant.
Do they all belong to judge?
Did he or someone else CARRY them in or out office that day or after lunch?Esp'ly the backpacks?
Did earlier vid show judge, sheriff, or someone else retrieving an item or stashing an item?

- Brown backpack on desktop, full-ish, w top unzipped.
leans against stack of (maybe 6?) books.

- Black back(?)pack on desktop, full-ish, w side unzipped, papers showing.

- Sheet of paper at desk's right side. An info-graphic printed on it? Of what?

- The item on floor underneath desk corner, close to judge's feet. Has 2 black wheels, connected to hinged arm, w bulldozer-like bucket on end. Mining related? Toy or model?
(ETA: Whoops, I was off by a mile. I missed earlier post calling it a file dolly.
Thx for info @Friday Fan Makes sense. )


Paraphrasing one of Yogi Berra's famous quotes---
You can observe a lot by just looking around. ;)
en.wikiquote.org

Yogi Berra - Wikiquote

en.wikiquote.org en.wikiquote.org

But not ^ saying items have any significance to the case.

Vid w ^ items.
Click to expand...
Can anyone tell if there were any words exchanged before the gunfire?
 
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