Known rope in the house

[midwest mama]

I don't think it would take longer than 10 minutes for an intelligent person to write that note. It may have been written bit by bit and hidden; it was done from the middle pages of the note pad so it could be closed between times: Burke go make sure the lights are off; Burke go look out the window: is there anyone out there; I think I scared them off, but just check that way and I will check this way - OMG Look! I have found a note. Look what it says.... we can't call the police.... this is serious...

maybe at this point the person has been seen by Burke, but JB has not been seen by Burke in her state. Maybe Burke did not see her at all that night but in hindsight he remembers hearing the fridge open and his mind is trying to work. Maybe when he asks his dad: where did you find the body - it is because he believes or believed the ransom note.

Maybe someone with a key or access to the house (possibly even admitted by Jonbenet) was discovered there by Burke.

If the time was approaching midnight then the person could say: I was calling by to drop something off for your parents but I noticed the lights were off then I saw something suspicious, so I came to investigate.

Maybe the person was a regular visitor at night; maybe the person took JB out that night and came back with her later and suspected Burke had seen something.

In order to induce panic-control JB has been clocked over the head and tied so as she can't move and the note written then shown to Burke by someone who has pulled a knife saying: I saw someone here and am investigating (whilst holding this weapon for my own protection but hopefully you also feel threatened by it).

I think later down the track Burke started to suspect this person and wanted to try to tell child welfare in his interview but was afraid of betraying this person dor some reason, because he was in two minds as to whether he could trust this person or not.

Having seen the size of the paintbrush I don't think JonBenet could have broken the device herself: whoever broke it finished her off: possible scenarios: the perp leaves and Burke finds her and tries to free her accidentally causing the genital wound via the broken paintbrush and also possibly the final strangulation.

The perp and Burke "find her" together and they try to free her (the perp knowing what the consequences will be) and the perp says: we tried to help now there is nothing we can do - but at some point after the perp moves JBs body by pulling her by the strings of her arms and the broken paintbrush - leading Burke to later ask: where did you find her body?

Burke does not see her and the perp pretends to leave or returns and finishes the murder and hides the body - perhaps even after or because the police are called. Could it have been a policeman? Someone the child might listen to or trust? jeez. I just don't know.

Wow - Without any forensic fibre evidence collected, this could be a doozie of a crime scene scenario implicating an known perp/accomplice that was unknown to the parents as having been in the house that night.

But what about all the fiber evidence, especially to Patsy's jacket, and John's wool shirt, that was found on crime objects? The perp/accomplice would have had to make sure those items were involved in the scene, even if he/she didn't know they belonged to the parents. Would it have been luck he got those worked into the crime scene, or because he knew what the parents had been wearing that night and wanted to implicate them? Or all the fiber evidence HAS to be considered as possibly arriving via secondary transfer. Chrishope, are you there?

 

[thenagain]

Wow - Without any forensic fibre evidence collected, this could be a doozie of a crime scene scenario implicating an known perp/accomplice that was unknown to the parents as having been in the house that night.

But what about all the fiber evidence, especially to Patsy's jacket, and John's wool shirt, that was found on crime objects? The perp/accomplice would have had to make sure those items were involved in the scene, even if he/she didn't know they belonged to the parents. Would it have been luck he got those worked into the crime scene, or because he knew what the parents had been wearing that night and wanted to implicate them? Or all the fiber evidence HAS to be considered as possibly arriving via secondary transfer. Chrishope, are you there?

i think a perp who plots a crime such as this is very careful about leaving evidence: I believe the forensics said the red and black fibres were "consistent with" Patsy's jacket but were not proven beyond doubt to be from her jacket; I believe they were microscopic fibres numbering four and that the clothes or blanket had come out of the tumble dryer possibly; there has also been speculation about the fibres having posssibly come from a scarf or other item so I am not concerning myself with the fibres in my evaluation.

I feel the paintbrush broke from across Jonbenet's thighs at the same time as she was asphyxiated because pulling the brish meant the string pulled on her throat and to be fair i don't think Burke at 9 was strong enough to perform this act even to assist his sister unless he was a hulk of a lad for his age.

It is the device which suggests premeditation and which completely rules out the parent's involvement to me, because this clearly wasn't staging but a murdering device. It is a device of torture in fact; torture and murder.

If for one minute we look at JOhn and Patsy being innocent and that the bulk of what they have said is true and that where they have been inconsistent is down to stress, then I can start to see us all coming into agreement on the story: the perp even brought the pineapple: this is why Burke referred to hearing the fridge door open; he knew his parents hadn't bought it and believed they hadn't bought it and given it to JonBenet. He also knew he hadn't; his mind was working through things.

Whether he saw the perp or not is open to speculation; whether he was manipulated by the perp or not is open to speculation; whether or not the perp maipulated him or not at a later time is open to speculation, but the fact remains that the string and paintbrush were hashed up as a torture device which inflicted the injury to the genitals and which caused the child's death and thus we have to look away from Patsy and John as perps in this case.

As for the fibres used to wipe down the child - the intruder was in her family home; this was not intended to happen and so whatever was available was used which was obviously going to belong to the family. Clever perp.

 

[thenagain]

i think a perp who plots a crime such as this is very careful about leaving evidence: I believe the forensics said the red and black fibres were "consistent with" Patsy's jacket but were not proven beyond doubt to be from her jacket; I believe they were microscopic fibres numbering four and that the clothes or blanket had come out of the tumble dryer possibly; there has also been speculation about the fibres having posssibly come from a scarf or other item so I am not concerning myself with the fibres in my evaluation.

I feel the paintbrush broke from across Jonbenet's thighs at the same time as she was asphyxiated because pulling the brish meant the string pulled on her throat and to be fair i don't think Burke at 9 was strong enough to perform this act even to assist his sister unless he was a hulk of a lad for his age.

It is the device which suggests premeditation and which completely rules out the parent's involvement to me, because this clearly wasn't staging but a murdering device. It is a device of torture in fact; torture and murder.

If for one minute we look at JOhn and Patsy being innocent and that the bulk of what they have said is true and that where they have been inconsistent is down to stress, then I can start to see us all coming into agreement on the story: the perp even brought the pineapple: this is why Burke referred to hearing the fridge door open; he knew his parents hadn't bought it and believed they hadn't bought it and given it to JonBenet. He also knew he hadn't; his mind was working through things.

Whether he saw the perp or not is open to speculation; whether he was manipulated by the perp or not is open to speculation; whether or not the perp maipulated him or not at a later time is open to speculation, but the fact remains that the string and paintbrush were hashed up as a torture device which inflicted the injury to the genitals and which caused the child's death and thus we have to look away from Patsy and John as perps in this case.

As for the fibres used to wipe down the child - the intruder was in her family home; this was not intended to happen and so whatever was available was used which was obviously going to belong to the family. Clever perp.

If Patsy and John were responsible then why did the police not find the broken part of the paintbrush which inflicted the injury to her genitals? I believe the perp kept it either as a momento or because he touched it when he picked it up or to hide the fact of the device and thus the premeditation.

 

[dodie20]

If Patsy and John were responsible then why did the police not find the broken part of the paintbrush which inflicted the injury to her genitals? I believe the perp kept it either as a momento or because he touched it when he picked it up or to hide the fact of the device and thus the premeditation.

There are all kinds of possibilities of why the police didn't find certain evidence. Them not finding the paintbrush, doesn't clear anybody, not even the Rs. Maybe they hid it, or put it in a pocket or purse, or gave it to somebody to throw away, or maybe PR's sister unknowingly retrieved it along with the golf bag, etc., or maybe it was tossed in the trash, or maybe it was there somewhere and the cops just missed it. Out of all the evidence, I don't understand why this 1 thing, points away from the Rs? Something not found, doesn't point to an intruder, IMO, it's the evidence that was right there in that house that matters, and everything leads back to the Rs, namely PR. Now, if the note had been written ahead of time, on say an envelope that couldn't be traced to the Rs, and PR's fibers hadn't been found tangled in the murder weapon, and feces hadn't been found on JB's chocolates, and so forth and so forth, I might consider that an intruder took part of the murder weapon as a memento, but as things stand, I just don't see it. But I do agree that the killer wanted to hide premeditation. Moo.

 

[otg]

There are all kinds of possibilities of why the police didn't find certain evidence. Them not finding the paintbrush, doesn't clear anybody, not even the Rs. Maybe they hid it, or put it in a pocket or purse, or gave it to somebody to throw away, or maybe PR's sister unknowingly retrieved it along with the golf bag, etc., or maybe it was tossed in the trash, or maybe it was there somewhere and the cops just missed it. Out of all the evidence, I don't understand why this 1 thing, points away from the Rs? Something not found, doesn't point to an intruder, IMO, it's the evidence that was right there in that house that matters, and everything leads back to the Rs, namely PR. Now, if the note had been written ahead of time, on say an envelope that couldn't be traced to the Rs, and PR's fibers hadn't been found tangled in the murder weapon, and feces hadn't been found on JB's chocolates, and so forth and so forth, I might consider that an intruder took part of the murder weapon as a memento, but as things stand, I just don't see it. But I do agree that the killer wanted to hide premeditation. Moo.

Another possibility for the disappearance of evidence, in addition to those you mention, dodie... the spot just outside the WC where JonBenet probably died -- the spot where most everyone believes the majority of the staging took place -- that spot is only several feet from the boiler. I don't know if it was coal, gas, or electric (doubtful), but in order to boil water you need a fire. Wood, paper, cloth, and cord all burn.

Just a thought.
.

 

[UKGuy]

If Patsy and John were responsible then why did the police not find the broken part of the paintbrush which inflicted the injury to her genitals? I believe the perp kept it either as a momento or because he touched it when he picked it up or to hide the fact of the device and thus the premeditation.

thenagain,
Maybe they did find it. Inside JonBenet, but this has been redacted, since its evidence only the perpetrator will know?

.

 

[thenagain]

There are all kinds of possibilities of why the police didn't find certain evidence. Them not finding the paintbrush, doesn't clear anybody, not even the Rs. Maybe they hid it, or put it in a pocket or purse, or gave it to somebody to throw away, or maybe PR's sister unknowingly retrieved it along with the golf bag, etc., or maybe it was tossed in the trash, or maybe it was there somewhere and the cops just missed it. Out of all the evidence, I don't understand why this 1 thing, points away from the Rs? Something not found, doesn't point to an intruder, IMO, it's the evidence that was right there in that house that matters, and everything leads back to the Rs, namely PR. Now, if the note had been written ahead of time, on say an envelope that couldn't be traced to the Rs, and PR's fibers hadn't been found tangled in the murder weapon, and feces hadn't been found on JB's chocolates, and so forth and so forth, I might consider that an intruder took part of the murder weapon as a memento, but as things stand, I just don't see it. But I do agree that the killer wanted to hide premeditation. Moo.

It points away from the Ramsey's because, as I have posted already, it is partof a device of torture and murder:

the brush is removed from the paintbrush giving a stick remaining

Jonbenet's arms are placed in loops and crossed at the wrists - the loops are attached by a length of cord from which the loops are made - the length between the loops is wound around either end of the stick until tight.

the stick (from the paintbrush) is placed across the thigh area just below the genital area and another cord which has been applied to the middle of the string is passed upwards up the back and a loop is made around the neck - actually - the loop is made around the neck first and then carefully measured down to the paintbrush and tied in the middle which is acrss the thighs and to which the wrist connecting cord is looped around the ends

the child can not move now or she will strangle herself

if the child wriggles her arms she pulls the stick joined to the cord around her neck

if the child tries to sit up - it pulls the cord behind her

if an item of cloth is placed under the stick to prevent marking then the fibres will become embedded in the lining of her underwear if she wriggles her hands

this is premeditated torture and murder

the head wound meant 99 per cent she would die

calling the police meant 100 per cent she would die - i think because the perp went down there and scared the hell out of her or he broke the paintbrush which simultaneously pulled the cord about her neck and caused the genital wound.

At no time have i seen anyone on here or anywhere else syggest premeditation on behalf of the Ramseys - only an accident gone wrong and a staging: the brush and string were NOt stage props - they were made into a weapon of evilness - pure unadulterated evilness.

The length of cord from the nck to the paintbrush was 17 inches - check it out - I even made one myself a day or so ago and it is a vile thing to look at and see how it worked.

removing the part of the paintbrush was removing part of the murder weapon.



another piece of cord is

 

[thenagain]

thenagain,
Maybe they did find it. Inside JonBenet, but this has been redacted, since its evidence only the perpetrator will know?

.

True. They said they found splinters and yes evidence has been hidden - but I know and I can prove I have never been in the United States. I just read the reports. One thing which makes sleuthing hard is speculation not backed up with hard facts - such as the string the broken stick and the length of the cord and the splinters and the wound and the strangulation and the various ligature marks - these are all facts.

 

[otg]

I know, I'm in 'minority' here, for not accepting the strangulation and acute injury as the 'staging'....

IMO, we need to think from PR/JR perspective, if we could...Let's say accident happens and BR involves. JBR is dying. Parents know that something wrong happens to her head. They couldn't see the damage but the evidences of the fatal injury is there, right up-front of them: JBR in comotose state, not responsive, possibly with some convulsions...What to do to mislead the police, relatives and friends?

PR and JR are all about the appearances, right? Especially, PR. She wouldn't care about JBR cleanleness on regular basis. When asked:'when the last time JBR took the bath?', PR said: 'I don't know'. However, prior the pageant, she said 'I would give JBR the full 'scrap'. Now, in preparation for JBR funeral, PR was very much concerned if JBR's body has any marks on her arms and if yes then she would need the proper dress to COVER them from anyone to see....Appearances!!! Remember what she told Burke staying next to the casket of her baby:'She looks perfect!' (or something like this)...

By taking the above characterization of PR/JR priorities of APPEARANCES, I cannot see them (anyone of them!!!) to damage JBR neck with the ligature for the 'staging' purpose!!! If they NEED to ease JBR suffering and at the same time point to the 'kidnappers' - what would stopped them to use the pillow to suffocate JBR?!!! Which manual said that 'kidnappers' didn't use 'suffocation' on their victim? Strangulation as the 'staging' is not only OVERDONE act but absolutely out of PR/JR character/profile...JMO

Now, let's talk about acute injury. This is a little bit more complicated issue because I'm NOT 100% sure when it happens. But for the sake of the argument, let say it happens after the head blow. Majority of people on WS think that this acute injury was 'staged' as well, to cover-up the prior sexual assult. First of all, how the ONE TIME 'poke' into JBR vagina would cover the prior assult? From the medical point of view, where this philosophy comes from?! Where is it saying that chronic sexual injuries to vagina could be covered/overlayed by one-time recent acute one?! But the most important: how PR/JR would know if they were successfull with this ONE TIME 'poke' attempt? ...just because they saw the blood?!!!...And why wipe it-off after? What purpose of this?...At the minimum, it would make 'kidnapper' looks very kind and neat....Nope, 'acute injury' is not the 'staging' because it has no purpose what's so ever...JMO

Therefore, TODAY, I'm convinced: if BDI - we should prepare ourself for very ugly psychological disorder.

I know, this thread is about ROPES...sorry for OT discussion...

Excellent post, OM4U, and I totally agree with all of your logic in it. :clap:

I know you're not a minority of one, because I too can't buy the idea of the acute vaginal injuries as staging -- especially when you consider that so much else was done to cover up the sexual aspect of her death. But I believe not everyone is buying into it either.
.

 

[otg]

I am wondering about the poke to her vagina. If it was indeed intended to cover prior abuse, why wasnt more damage done by the perperator? Why wasnt she more vigorously or violently assault to cause more damage to cover up abuse that had been commited in the past?

Way to go, qtc! See, OM4U? Others see how silly this idea is.
.

 

[UKGuy]

True. They said they found splinters and yes evidence has been hidden - but I know and I can prove I have never been in the United States. I just read the reports. One thing which makes sleuthing hard is speculation not backed up with hard facts - such as the string the broken stick and the length of the cord and the splinters and the wound and the strangulation and the various ligature marks - these are all facts.

thenagain,
Speculation is what we are here for. WS members do not have access to the Ramsey evidence cages.

BPD have never made any issue about the missing piece of the paintbrush handle, but they did over the size-12's, making sure that no intruder brought them into the house, also they underlined no size-12 Bloomingdale underwear was to be found anywhere in the Ramsey household, thereby suggesting the intruder took them?


.

 

[UKGuy]

Excellent post, OM4U, and I totally agree with all of your logic in it. :clap:

I know you're not a minority of one, because I too can't buy the idea of the acute vaginal injuries as staging -- especially when you consider that so much else was done to cover up the sexual aspect of her death. But I believe not everyone is buying into it either.
.

otg,
So how do we reconcile Coroner Meyer's vebatim remarks about digital penetration and sexual contact?

Do you think he might know the difference between a sexual assault and a genital injury?

If the acute injury is not staging then it forms part of the phase of injuries prior to her head bash?

If so, then this offers Patsy further rationale to make a garrote from the ligature and paintbrush handle, e.g. muddy the waters?


.

 

[thenagain]

thenagain,
Speculation is what we are here for. WS members do not have access to the Ramsey evidence cages.

BPD have never made any issue about the missing piece of the paintbrush handle, but they did over the size-12's, making sure that no intruder brought them into the house, also they underlined no size-12 Bloomingdale underwear was to be found anywhere in the Ramsey household, thereby suggesting the intruder took them?


.

I think a certain degree of speculation comes into it of course, but the speculation needs to eprtain to facts and not because people make assumptions and then point the finger at everything a person says or does without due cause; i find it abbhorrent thet everything the Ramsey's have said or done has been "proof" or evidence in the minds of some as guilt: they are being accused of the most heinous crime imaginable without due cause in my opinion.

I believe the packet of size 12 underwear was later located when the Ramsey's belongings were moved but they denied knowledge of them - not sure on that.

Maybe they never made an issue about the missing piece of the brush because they went too quickly on the assumption that this was staging or some erotic thingy - but then why was one half of the brush there and the head of the brush in the paint tray?

Are we back to bungled police work AGAIN????

I think we need to speculate on the facts alone - and yes this does include behaviour and the Ramseys were deemed by professionals to have acted accordingly with the parents of a murdered child and not with the behaviour of child murdering parents.

I think to speculate we need to keep our minds as open as possible and not to pick a target without cause and then try to make some facts fit.

The scream for example is not a fact. It is a possibility and a very vague and questionable one.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Way to go, qtc! See, OM4U? Others see how silly this idea is.
.

Thank you so much otg and qtc, now we have minority + 3!....

I'll copy my post from another thread because I think it belongs better here for further discussion.

JMO, I don't believe the white line bellow the ligature was caused by twisting JBR shirt or any other garments (regardless of Kolar's agreement with this theory). And here are the reasons why I don't believe in it:

- the direction of the white line is going from the front to the back on the angle, almost like a 'V' mark which in correspondence with the partial hanging marks. Like otg stated, the partial hanging can be achived by simply standing on the knees and forwarding your body forward against the rope...as long as the rope is somehow secured from behind;
- the WIDTH of the white line is almost the same as the width of the actual ligature (see autopsy photo). In addition, the width of the white line is constant as it goes from the front to the sides. So, I don't think it was done by the scarf or any other 'elastic' fabrics.

The more I reading the old threads/posts and analyzing the 'partial hanging' - the more I'm coming back to my original theory. Before the head blow, JBR already has on her neck some kind of restrain cord/rope device for whatever reason (play? punishments?)...and when head blow accurs from the BEHIND, her body was falling forward causing the partial hanging. And I WANT to believe (this is important for me to WANT!) that this partial hanging has KILLED her. In this case (and only in this case!!!) I would accept the 'garotte' ligature as the 'staging' done by R, because at that time JBR was already death.....I know, I know, you would ask me: how about these 90 min between the head blow and strangulation?....I don't know what to say!!! I wish I would never learned about...

And something else I would like to add to the above in regards to 'strangulation' as the 'staging'. In BDI theory, if we'll assume the partial hanging was the cause of JBR death (or near the death condition) then I can understand why the actual strangulation could be performed by PR or/and JR as the 'staging':

- PR/JR couldn't know about the head injury (it wasn't visiable, right?);
- the neck damage already been done by the partal hanging hence...
- the strangulation with the 'torture-garotte' must be done to cover the partal hanging with the 'kidnapper did it' in mind! At this point, JBR was already death or almost death and in their mind it was due to strangulation anyway (the partial!).

JMO

 

[thenagain]

otg,
So how do we reconcile Coroner Meyer's vebatim remarks about digital penetration and sexual contact?

Do you think he might know the difference between a sexual assault and a genital injury?

If the acute injury is not staging then it forms part of the phase of injuries prior to her head bash?

If so, then this offers Patsy further rationale to make a garrote from the ligature and paintbrush handle, e.g. muddy the waters?


.

No. The autopsy report suggests some sort of genital abuse 10 days or more prior to this incident and the coroner's report also indicates - sorry - not the coroner's report - the guy who studied in switzerland and who knows hebrew - the one who has done a kazzillion autopsies - he says the head blow was first and the stab of the stick to the genitals was almost simultaneous with the final strangulation and I agree - because as the paintbrish was broken in two this pulled the cord around her neck and ended her life - previous pulls or wriggles on her part mayhave cause blanching as her circulation was slowed from shock and trauma and the final position was from where her body was moved by someone pulling her by the cords around her wrists and neck - the blood was wiped so as not to leave a blood trail.

 

[UKGuy]

I think a certain degree of speculation comes into it of course, but the speculation needs to eprtain to facts and not because people make assumptions and then point the finger at everything a person says or does without due cause; i find it abbhorrent thet everything the Ramsey's have said or done has been "proof" or evidence in the minds of some as guilt: they are being accused of the most heinous crime imaginable without due cause in my opinion.

I believe the packet of size 12 underwear was later located when the Ramsey's belongings were moved but they denied knowledge of them - not sure on that.

Maybe they never made an issue about the missing piece of the brush because they went too quickly on the assumption that this was staging or some erotic thingy - but then why was one half of the brush there and the head of the brush in the paint tray?

Are we back to bungled police work AGAIN????

I think we need to speculate on the facts alone - and yes this does include behaviour and the Ramseys were deemed by professionals to have acted accordingly with the parents of a murdered child and not with the behaviour of child murdering parents.

I think to speculate we need to keep our minds as open as possible and not to pick a target without cause and then try to make some facts fit.

The scream for example is not a fact. It is a possibility and a very vague and questionable one.

thenagain,

Maybe they never made an issue about the missing piece of the brush because they went too quickly on the assumption that this was staging or some erotic thingy - but then why was one half of the brush there and the head of the brush in the paint tray?

Because someone was tidy, and wanted stuff in its place. They would have touched the missing piece as well as the head of the brush, so its not missing due to forensic awareness.

Maybe it was removed precisely because it was smeared with blood?



.

 

[thenagain]

Thank you so much otg and qtc, now we have minority + 3!....

I'll copy my post from another thread because I think it belongs better here for further discussion.

JMO, I don't believe the white line bellow the ligature was caused by twisting JBR shirt or any other garments (regardless of Kolar's agreement with this theory). And here are the reasons why I don't believe in it:

- the direction of the white line is going from the front to the back on the angle, almost like a 'V' mark which in correspondence with the partial hanging marks. Like otg stated, the partial hanging can be achived by simply standing on the knees and forwarding your body forward against the rope...as long as the rope is somehow secured from behind;
- the WIDTH of the white line is almost the same as the width of the actual ligature (see autopsy photo). In addition, the width of the white line is constant as it goes from the front to the sides. So, I don't think it was done by the scarf or any other 'elastic' fabrics.

The more I reading the old threads/posts and analyzing the 'partial hanging' - the more I'm coming back to my original theory. Before the head blow, JBR already has on her neck some kind of restrain cord/rope device for whatever reason (play? punishments?)...and when head blow accurs from the BEHIND, her body was falling forward causing the partial hanging. And I WANT to believe (this is important for me to WANT!) that this partial hanging has KILLED her. In this case (and only in this case!!!) I would accept the 'garotte' ligature as the 'staging' done by R, because at that time JBR was already death.....I know, I know, you would ask me: how about these 90 min between the head blow and strangulation?....I don't know what to say!!! I wish I would never learned about...

And something else I would like to add to the above in regards to 'strangulation' as the 'staging'. In BDI theory, if we'll assume the partial hanging was the cause of JBR death (or near the death condition) then I can understand why the actual strangulation could be performed by PR or/and JR as the 'staging':

- PR/JR couldn't know about the head injury (it wasn't visiable, right?);
- the neck damage already been done by the partal hanging hence...
- the strangulation with the 'torture-garotte' must be done to cover the partal hanging with the 'kidnapper did it' in mind! At this point, JBR was already death or almost death and in their mind it was due to strangulation anyway (the partial!).

JMO

Why the hell would anyone who had accidentally hurt someone make an instrument of torture - with which a child could essentially kill themselves without the presence of anyone else there - if they wanted to "stage" a scene. Completely off the radar.

 

[thenagain]

thenagain,

Because someone was tidy, and wanted stuff in its place. They would have touched the missing piece as well as the head of the brush, so its not missing due to forensic awareness.

Maybe it was removed precisely because it was smeared with blood?



.

Then either the police have it or the perp has it - either way: while I believe local law enforcement might be a bit dim there is no way i believe that the people higher up the chain of law and forensics do not know what this device was and how it was used and yes police do keep things quiet to see who mentions what.

The coroner does not always have access to all the facts either so he or she works simply on their findings on the body and what that swiss-taught lad said fits precisely.

 

[UKGuy]

Then either the police have it or the perp has it - either way: while I believe local law enforcement might be a bit dim there is no way i believe that the people higher up the chain of law and forensics do not know what this device was and how it was used and yes police do keep things quiet to see who mentions what.

The coroner does not always have access to all the facts either so he or she works simply on their findings on the body and what that swiss-taught lad said fits precisely.

thenagain,
Well the size-12's turned up, after being declared absent by BPD, kinda curious that one.


.

 

[otg]

Otg, I always found this interview with John Walsh very interesting:

WALSH: I mean, you are a detective and you go to a kidnapping of a high -- prominent family in a very wealthy area, and then, you know, police work 101, you clear the house and you clear the crime scene. She allowed the father and his friend to search the house. SO HE CUTS DOWN JONBENET, WHO IS HANGING DOWN THERE. He compromised the crime scene, whether he had anything to do with it or he had nothing to do with it, HE CUT DOWN HIS DAUGHTER IN THE CRIME SCENE WITH THE DNA."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0203/04/lkl.00.html

Nehemiah, while I would like to be able to point to something John Walsh said as confirmation of my claim about the hanging, I think he must have been mistaken. I'm not sure if he got this confused with another case, or if (as BobC once speculated) there is a passage in PMPT about someone claiming at one time that JB was found "hanging in a secret dumbwaiter" at some point, but I believe whatever he was thinking -- he was mistaken.

It seems like someone else prominent had said something relating to her having been hanged, but I can't remember now who it was. In any event, I firmly believe that this is what happened based on what evidence we are privy to, and I'm glad you bumped this thread so we could read it.
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