GUILTY KS - Andrew Finch, 28, killed by LE in 'swatting' prank, Wichita, 28 Dec 2017 *civil trial 2022*

[rsd1200]

Everyone should listen to this horrible human being. Nonchalant is definitely an understatement. HE is the one who put LE in this situation. But he’s not guilty because he didn’t pull the trigger. Oh, and someone else asked him to do the swatting so there are others who are guilty too. Can we pile on this guy for a change?

Unbelievable. What a self-absorbed little piece of work.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don’t think he’s being given a free pass at all. There will be an investigation. While it may come out in his favor (or not), he will have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. He’s human and I can’t imagine he’s shrugging this off like Tyler Barriss did in his interview. Tyler Barriss deliberately set up a situation that could easily lead to someone getting hurt or killed. The officer who shot Andrew Finch went there with the sole purpose of preventing further killing. I think that’s important to remember.

I expect and hope that every incident like this is examined and analyzed so that the number of police shootings will diminish significantly. I wish every policeman could have nerves of steel and perfect split-second judgement, but they are all individuals, not robots, and as much as I’d like perfection, realistically it’s not possible.
JMO

Here is what some people who are quick to point the finger at an officer who shoots and kills someone may not know.

That officer usually quits the force.
That officer often ends up drinking or turns to drugs to forget.
That officer usually ends up in a breakup of his/her relationship i.e. divorce ect
That officers life from the moment he pulls that trigger changes forever and and it is usually not a good change.

No I do not have any links to this, I do not know the exact statistics of this, because these are just some real life observations from personal stories I hear from some police officers.

So no, a police officer who has to kill someone in the line of duty never gets off scot free, unlike the ******* that called in this 911 who will probably walk with probation.

So let us review this shall we?

Andrew Finch - death sentence

Officer who shot him in the line of duty - a life sentence filled with nightmare, regrets, remorse.

******* who made the call - no remorse at all and probably walks with probation because everyone is focused on the officer involved and calling for his blood.

So tell me who is to blame?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don’t think he’s being given a free pass at all. There will be an investigation. While it may come out in his favor (or not), he will have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. He’s human and I can’t imagine he’s shrugging this off like Tyler Barriss did in his interview. Tyler Barriss deliberately set up a situation that could easily lead to someone getting hurt or killed. The officer who shot Andrew Finch went there with the sole purpose of preventing further killing. I think that’s important to remember.

I expect and hope that every incident like this is examined and analyzed so that the number of police shootings will diminish significantly. I wish every policeman could have nerves of steel and perfect split-second judgement, but they are all individuals, not robots, and as much as I’d like perfection, realistically it’s not possible.
JMO

Some of them feel very deeply.

 

[Lilibet]

Here is what some people who are quick to point the finger at an officer who shoots and kills someone may not know.

That officer usually quits the force.
That officer often ends up drinking or turns to drugs to forget.
That officer usually ends up in a breakup of his/her relationship i.e. divorce ect
That officers life from the moment he pulls that trigger changes forever and and it is usually not a good change.

No I do not have any links to this, I do not know the exact statistics of this, because these are just some real life observations from personal stories I hear from some police officers.

So no, a police officer who has to kill someone in the line of duty never gets off scot free, unlike the ******* that called in this 911 who will probably walk with probation.

So let us review this shall we?

Andrew Finch - death sentence

Officer who shot him in the line of duty - a life sentence filled with nightmare, regrets, remorse.

******* who made the call - no remorse at all and probably walks with probation because everyone is focused on the officer involved and calling for his blood.

So tell me who is to blame?

THIS ^^^^^^ a thousand times over.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don’t think he’s being given a free pass at all. There will be an investigation. While it may come out in his favor (or not), he will have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. He’s human and I can’t imagine he’s shrugging this off like Tyler Barriss did in his interview. Tyler Barriss deliberately set up a situation that could easily lead to someone getting hurt or killed. The officer who shot Andrew Finch went there with the sole purpose of preventing further killing. I think that’s important to remember.

I expect and hope that every incident like this is examined and analyzed so that the number of police shootings will diminish significantly. I wish every policeman could have nerves of steel and perfect split-second judgement, but they are all individuals, not robots, and as much as I’d like perfection, realistically it’s not possible.
JMO

This is what happens when a police officer or security officer does not pull his gun.

2 Las Vegas security guards fatally shot in hotel-casino

 

[Jax49]

Here is what some people who are quick to point the finger at an officer who shoots and kills someone may not know.

That officer usually quits the force.
That officer often ends up drinking or turns to drugs to forget.
That officer usually ends up in a breakup of his/her relationship i.e. divorce ect
That officers life from the moment he pulls that trigger changes forever and and it is usually not a good change.

No I do not have any links to this, I do not know the exact statistics of this, because these are just some real life observations from personal stories I hear from some police officers.

So no, a police officer who has to kill someone in the line of duty never gets off scot free, unlike the ******* that called in this 911 who will probably walk with probation.

So let us review this shall we?

Andrew Finch - death sentence

Officer who shot him in the line of duty - a life sentence filled with nightmare, regrets, remorse.

******* who made the call - no remorse at all and probably walks with probation because everyone is focused on the officer involved and calling for his blood.

So tell me who is to blame?

RBBM

Good grief, I certainly hope not. The idiot swatters who started this need serious prison time. moo

 

[Jax49]

O/T

If you pray there is a situation in Douglas Co., Colorado -- one deputy deceased and several more shot.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ties-down-in-Colorado&p=13839121#post13839121

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Wow!
No apparent remorse - though I bet the prosecution has a field day with his statement at 6:46 in the DramaAlert clip 6:46 "I don’t believe that I’m the only guilty party” - so that means he believes he is a guilty party.

Krebs on Security wrote about the crime and also posted a link to a Wichita journalist's Periscope feed of the LEO presser. I'm assuming since the Periscope feed is a confirmed journalist's at the confirmed presser, it's ok to repost here: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1lPKqponlzQxb?t=9m10s

This (presser from before the arrest), included the 911 call in full, the 7-second video, and a detailed timeline. While I'm not a professional, I'd say any layman can listen to this SWATter interviewed on DramaAlert, and then the 911 call, and it's undoubtedly the same person speaking in both calls.

Here are my notes from the Timeline (provided at 20 min mark) followed by other LEO info provided in the presser
6:18 City building security officer (not substation) got call. Caller said there’d been a disturbance and he’d hit his father over the head with a loaded gun. Security officer called 911. They got cut off (sounds like the SWATter got cut off at that point)
6:18 caller said he’s shot his dad in the head and he was not breathing
6:19 caller stated holding his mom and brother at gunpoint in the closet
6:22 said didn’t mean to kill his dad
6:23 caller said he wanted to kill himself and light the house on fire
6:41 caller staed he had a black handgun on him
6:42 caller stated he was by his mom’s closet
6:43 caller stated mom and brother were in the closet in the master bedroom. Stated closet towards the back of the house (my note: his response to dispatch question about specific location) . Also stated pointing the gun at his mom and his brother and was not going to put the gun away
6:44 caller advised he’d poured gasoline all over the house and he was thinking about lighting it
6:43 was when the individual on the front porch was shot

Video at 22:17 mark from an officer body cam – very short (7 seconds)
In a clarifications section at 24.13 LEO said 6:46 was when the individual was shot.
28-year-old was not armed. Movement in the video was suspicious (rapid movement to waistband and back up again).
Several commands given – on the video you saw the officer across the street (on North side of the street)– who was standing next to the officer that fired the shot. Officers next to the house were also giving commands that you cannot hear on the video.

Here is my takeaway. This scum has no remorse for getting an innocent man killed. He has no remorse for ruining a police officers life. He has no remorse for the grief that innocent man's family has and will always go through.

Here is another takeaway.

Those evacs he is talking about is when someone calls in a bomb threat at a crowded event such as a concert or football stadium.

Think about that for a moment. A bomb threat in today's society. A society where terrorist attacks are becoming more and more common and killing more and more people. You posters in the UK should be able to imagine this as easily as those of us in the USA. Or any other country in the world that has been a victim of a terrorist attack.

A bomb threat.

So let's just imagine this for a moment. Thousands of people at an event. Someone calls in a threat. People are told to evacuate. Assuming everyone at that event hasn't been living in a cave with no media coverage, they begin to evacuate with most of them thinking about the recent mass shootings, terrorists threats, ect in their mind. So what happens if someone hears a loud bang, like someone knocking over a railing accidentally? Does panic ensue causing many injuries or even many deaths in the stampede for the exit?

Should the caller be charged with domestic terrorism?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

OT - I'm not very good at getting titles right for new threads. Can someone more experienced get this one going about this shooting outside of Denver - one officer killed, 4 deputies, and 2 others shot in DV situation.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-d...denver-area-residents-asked/story?id=52069187

Edited to correct numbers

 

[Deleted member 158085]

O/T

If you pray there is a situation in Douglas Co., Colorado -- one deputy deceased and several more shot.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ties-down-in-Colorado&p=13839121#post13839121

Ah, thank you. I didn't see this because of the title. I'm not the only one who has problems getting the post titles right.

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[RAISINISBACK]

Of course it is frightening. Which is exactly why you need to do EVERYTHING that is being commanded. KEEP you hands raised, and kneel down, etc etc... You do not want to be seen as a threat.

100% agree.

If you have a gun pointed at you or numerous guns pointed at you, just OBEY what you are told. Don't argue, don't try to explain, don't run, don't reach for your pocket, waistband, cellphone. Do what you are TOLD to do. Then sort whether you are innocent or not out later. It is only common sense folks. Why is it so hard to understand?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This is so horrible. My gosh, this 'prankster' got a person killed. What kind of jack *** thinks this is funny? "Swatting"? RU kidding me?

Yeah, It could happen anytime, to anyone. Some borderline nut job gets your address and calls in a 911 emergency and bingo, you have a squad of officers at your door.

It could happen to anyone, you, me, your next door neighbor, your kid, your grandkid.

Has anyone thought about calling your Congressman yet?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM for emphasis.

I'm not the OP, but I interpreted that comment very differently. My interpretation is that the police officer's actions shouldn't be considered as to whether Tyler Barriss should face charges for what he did. Of course the officer's actions are relevant, but TB's actions should be charged on what HE did. He called in a false terroristic situation, and police took it seriously and responded. The specific details of what police did or didn't do simply aren't relevant to the fact that Tyler Barris, IMO, set in motion very intentionally, and with malice, the events that produced the death of an innocent victim. That is what should be admissible at TB's trial, IMO. "HOW" the police responded is not relevant to TB's culpability, IMO.

I think TB should be charged with about a half dozen very serious felonies, state as well as federal.

I don't think we know enough YET about police procedures and what exactly happened, to say that the officer should or shouldn't face any criminal charges.

BBM

I was the one who made that post. Let me say it again. How any police force responds is not the issue I would like to see discussed from this incident. The issue is getting laws passed that call this "swatting" for what it actually is. Domestic terrorism. Online bullying.

JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM

I was the one who made that post. Let me say it again. How any police force responds is not the issue I would like to see discussed from this incident. The issue is getting laws passed that call this "swatting" for what it actually is. Domestic terrorism. Online bullying.

JMO

I think that that is an issue that does need to be discussed. Wouldn't a calm and controlled response be better than multiple officers screaming instructions to him have worked better?

 

[rain88]

100% agree.

If you have a gun pointed at you or numerous guns pointed at you, just OBEY what you are told. Don't argue, don't try to explain, don't run, don't reach for your pocket, waistband, cellphone. Do what you are TOLD to do. Then sort whether you are innocent or not out later. It is only common sense folks. Why is it so hard to understand?

JMO

I work in a job that I sometimes get members of the public screaming and angry. When that happens I can’t really hear them, my brain freezes. I imagine if I was on that porch I might not understand immediately what’s happening. He suffered a death sentence and is being blamed for it because he may have panicked. Shouldn’t police training include handling extremely frightened innocent people that are not armed?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think that that is an issue that does need to be discussed. Wouldn't a calm and controlled response be better than multiple officers screaming instructions to him have worked better?

No, we only call for calm and controlled responses from victims of violence, like the Frickers and this poor guy, not LE, in this country. As potential victims of crimes and police violence, apparently we're all supposed to be very well prepared to act perfectly when unexpectedly confronted with armed criminals or police while we are going about our business peacefully.

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[RAISINISBACK]

Oh come on, how many police were there with bright lights shining in his eyes? It was chaos, officers screaming at him from two directions. He had probably never been confronted with a situation like that before. Totally baffling to him. He had done nothing wrong, so he couldn't see himself as a danger to those police who had their guns trained on him. This is just not right, all the screaming and yelling they do. Whatever happened to calling him out with a loud hailer operated by one person, not many of them screaming different instructions to him from different directions?

All that screaming is what the officers are trained to do.

Here is a couple of statements from police officers.

The phrase "get on the ground" is drilled into many officers during their training. It's a simple phrase that is easily said under stress and most people understand the meaning when they hear it.

https://www.quora.com/When-cops-are...cream-for-the-suspect-to-give-them-their-arms

 

[Jennifer17]

All that screaming is what the officers are trained to do.

Here is a couple of statements from police officers.

The phrase "get on the ground" is drilled into many officers during their training. It's a simple phrase that is easily said under stress and most people understand the meaning when they hear it.

https://www.quora.com/When-cops-are...cream-for-the-suspect-to-give-them-their-arms

Maybe screaming doesn't work. Especially multiple people screaming at once. If he had done nothing more than walk out his front door to see what the noise was about, he may not have even known they were screaming at him or someone on the footpath or his neighbour.

 

[Jax49]

Maybe screaming doesn't work. Especially multiple people screaming at once. If he had done nothing more than walk out his front door to see what the noise was about, he may not have even known they were screaming at him or someone on the footpath or his neighbour.

So easy to say just do as you're told and LE won't shoot you...except it doesn't always work that way.

Screaming commands at a startled civilian isn't working. Since there doesn't seem to be any way to stop false 911 calls from being made, we have to look at how LE responds.

IMHO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

O/T

If you pray there is a situation in Douglas Co., Colorado -- one deputy deceased and several more shot.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ties-down-in-Colorado&p=13839121#post13839121

A rather timely juxtaposition.

Similar situation, one legit, one not.

How can LE differentiate, without going home in a box?

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