GUILTY KS - Andrew Finch, 28, killed by LE in 'swatting' prank, Wichita, 28 Dec 2017 *civil trial 2022*

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100% agree.

If you have a gun pointed at you or numerous guns pointed at you, just OBEY what you are told. Don't argue, don't try to explain, don't run, don't reach for your pocket, waistband, cellphone. Do what you are TOLD to do. Then sort whether you are innocent or not out later. It is only common sense folks. Why is it so hard to understand?

JMO

It is hard to understand because it isn't that clear cut. Freeze and you may get shot for not getting on the ground fast enough. Move your hands UP as ordered and as AF did and you may get shot.

I linked a story earlier where LE ordered a man to "get on the ground" and "hands in the air" at the same time. He didn't obey fast enough and he was killed by LE.

moo
 
I have signed a petition in the state of Washington called De-Escalate Washington--Building Bridges Between Community and Police. With a sufficient number of signatures having been gathered, the petition was presented at the state capitol in Olympia last week.

Police shootings are often sticky wickets. In each individual case that results in controversy, there are many sensible things that can be said by people defending the actions of law enforcement, just as there are sensible things said by those who feel LE might have acted hastily.

There have been a couple of citizen deaths in my community in the past couple of years at the hands of law enforcement. One officer was even fired as a result, which doesn't happen all that often. Within myself, I seriously questioned both deaths, yet I don't personally know what it would feel like to be the officer, facing critical unknowns.

I'm not sure how great this proposed De-Escalate law would or wouldn't be in practice...maybe it should read differently or who knows what. But I am behind it because de-escalate is such a good word. Let's start there. Policing is an art as well as a science. I would imagine that sometimes instinct can keep a professional and other innocents just as alive as following a checklist can.

More de-escalation training can't hurt, assuming it is good quality instruction. My personal opinion is that there are too dang many guns in the U.S., and of course too many of high power, so given the prevailing climate, LE needs all the weapons it can get--some of those being psychological, sociological, and cultural.

Besides good marksmanship, which is important to an officer, I would like to see them practice (and practice some more) the art of sizing up a situation to see if withholding fire power for a second or two might yield up useful information that could save a civilian life and spare the officer possible future anguish over what went down on a certain day or night.

http://www.deescalatewa.org/
 
I'm wondering why this case isn't getting more national coverage.
 
From what I understand, the person who posted the dare gave a fake address.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

RSBM

So maybe there should be TWO arrests ?? :furious: :stormingmad:

I watched the body cam video. As far as I could see -- and it wasn't very clear -- Andrew didn't make suspicious movements ; instead, it looked like he raised his hand(s) to his eyes b/c the police lights were shining straight at him !

If I was a policeman I'd probably be dead right now, since I'd err on the side of caution.
Do not think I could live with myself if I accidentally shot an innocent person.

Firmly believe the person who gave a fake address should be investigated and arrested as well.
A man is dead b/c of that fake addy., fgs.
:moo:
 
Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???
 
RSBM

So maybe there should be TWO arrests ?? :furious: :stormingmad:

I watched the body cam video. As far as I could see -- and it wasn't very clear -- Andrew didn't make suspicious movements ; instead, it looked like he raised his hand(s) to his eyes b/c the police lights were shining straight at him !

If I was a policeman I'd probably be dead right now, since I'd err on the side of caution.
Do not think I could live with myself if I accidentally shot an innocent person.

Firmly believe the person who gave a fake address should be investigated and arrested as well.
A man is dead b/c of that fake addy., fgs.
:moo:

I could never hold a job that might involve killing someone, even as a remote possibility.

There definitely should be more than Tyler arrested among the gamers.
 
Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???

I don’t know if it’s legal, but it’s a brilliant idea!! Just because there are flashing police lights outside, doesn’t mean they’re there for you and that you have to go greet them. In fact, it might be fake LE, trying to lure you out. Call me cautious, but that idea sounds very smart. As a matter of fact, I’m not sure I’d even answer my door under those circumstances. They can call me on the bullhorn.
 
Not a lawyer so I wouldn't know what price is to pay for calling in a murder-hostage scenario that leads to police murder of an unarmed citizen. Clearly he presents a threat to society due to the types of calls generated. Doesn't seem to show remorse for his actions either.
 
Dear Gitana1,

We can always count on you to quickly get to the truthful facts in any matter.

Thank you for your contribution to this website. I always look forward to your posts and I know I am not alone saying this!

It's not just your experience and legal opinions that are top-notch - but the clear and thoughtful way you impart information with such great care and compassion.

You are greatly appreciated!

That's really sweet! Thank you.

I just keep thinking about this tragedy... not all cases move me to tears -- but this one has.

It'd be nice to think that police should err on the side of caution -- but since I'm not a cop I don't feel I have the right to say that those in law enforcement should take lethal risks.
Maybe if I spent a few days in their shoes I'd have a better idea as to how they should respond.
LE deserve to go home to their families , too.
Keep going back and forth about this-- but I still believe this is on TB.

So much rage against the monstrous perp.
A life is forever blotted out and he's like, 'well the cops shouldn't have fired on him....'
How would TB like it if someone had called a hostage/violence blaming HIM ???
Piece of excrement.
:moo:

It is undoubtedly on TB. He caused this. He intended harm on the person he thought lived there. Even if the office who fired did so negligently, (which I think he did. The fact that there wasn't a volley of gun fire tells us that no one else out of the likely dozens of SWAT present felt he posed a threat) TB is still
solidly to blame.

Watching the Dinkheller video did it for me. They just can't wait and coddle. If Dinkheller had shot that man before he got to his truck, everyone would have hated him for killing a vet, but, now the young LEO is many years dead and his baby boy, grew up w/o a father. There could very well have been a disaster in there, a fire starting, someone bleeding out, they did not know what they had. We have bad cops here, and we've got good ones, but the ones to blame, imo, is the dude who placed the call, and the guy who asked him to do so, and gave him the address.

Wait and coddle? These were SWAT in full protective gear, standing behind barriers, addressing a shirtless guy with nothing in his hands and full light gaining on him. It's coddling him to not shoot him
under those circumstances? WTH?

It's simple. Either you think the guy shooting didn't know what he was doing or you think all the ones who failed to fire were the negligent ones.

You can't have it both ways.

Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???

Of course it's legal but the guy didn't know SWAT was out there. He heard a noise and opened the door.

You know I do feel sorry for the officer who shot him. It likely will haunt him forever. I don't think he committed a crime. I do think he was too trigger happy and the department should pay a settlement. And he should not be a member of SWAT.

You should have a super good eye and calm temperament for that IMO.
 
Not a lawyer so I wouldn't know what price is to pay for calling in a murder-hostage scenario that leads to police murder of an unarmed citizen. Clearly he presents a threat to society due to the types of calls generated. Doesn't seem to show remorse for his actions either.

RSBM

Certainly this TB should never get out of prison. My .02 is that if he ever does go free (which is likely) he'd be a danger to the public.
After the fact..... but his photo looks somewhat deranged.
:moo:
 
Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???

I have walked outside my house to see what police action was going on next door. I bet that is what he did. I think that it is highly likely that he didn't think that it was him the police were after for a few seconds, and then it was over. This is a SWAT team with special weapons and body armour and they just go in guns blazing and screaming at him.
 
RSBM

Certainly this TB should never get out of prison. My .02 is that if he ever does go free (which is likely) he'd be a danger to the public.
After the fact..... but his photo looks somewhat deranged.
:moo:

The police officer is a danger to the public too. Andrew Finch was a member of the public who had done nothing wrong.
 
Has the other gamer been identified and arrested? All I'm finding is Tyler Barriss' arrest.
 
Has the other gamer been identified and arrested? All I'm finding is Tyler Barriss' arrest.

I hope that he is found and punished for giving an innocent person's address when he knew that a SWAT team was going to land on that address.
 
This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?
 

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