Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #21 *Arrest*

[flute4peace]

I have similar questions in terms of the charges on something like that. Is it a crime to steal the pad and then another one every time it's used? Is the pad considered one item, or is each separate page considered an item (since there could be a theft using each one)?

So the charge against KE is from 1/11. Are we thinking the alleged crime is that she stole the rx pad or whatever on that date? Forged her first note for whatever on that date? Subsequent use of the pad on later dates are irrelevant to this charge, but once this charge is played out, they can then charge her for any other forged notes-including notes that are possibly in relation to Lucas?

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[Kamm5]

We need to get an attorney on here. Did KE have court yesterday

 

[deedee21]

random thought: if it turns out there were forged or inaccurate doctor's notes, i wonder if EG showed these to JH in addition to the school to support her version of events?

i think there have been some good posts about how it is difficult to view JH as black or white in this situation - yes, he should have definitely done more but yes, it also seems he was manipulated & blinded by his partner.

im wondering if Lucas' abuse was something EG didnt both to cover up about w JH and he looked the other way/she knew that or if she actively was defensive/had a narrative for him about how something happened/how Lucas was clumsy.

(to be clear, im not defending JHs behavior/saying a DR note should have been proof enough for him, just trying to picture what their household & dynamic was like)

He married a whackjob. A violent one.
He picked her because he saw himself in her.

A builtin babysitter.
It did not matter how she treated his son.
He was no better.

 

[flute4peace]

Do we have any current posters who are verified attorneys? I know PB & a couple of others work in legal offices.

We need to get an attorney on here. Did KE have court yesterday

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[WildcatRunner]

(Girl. It got so intense...omg......I have never to this day seen a board more divided on WS and more hostile etc etc.... it got so bad I don't think we are even supposed to talk about it.

It was BAAAD. Trust me.)

I wasn't even lurking on WS back then, but obviously heard a lot about the case due to living in Colorado...and I was of the mindset everyone thought it was Mark Redwine the whole time. Interesting to know that wasn't popular belief.
I suppose there are lots of people (in other venues) who also don't think EG harmed LH, which also feels obvious to me.

 

[WildcatRunner]

Oh yes I remember. I had a hard time convincing myself he was guilty. I couldn’t wrap my mind around why... and still can’t. Although I do think he is guilty now.

As far as JH is concerned... I think violence was commonplace in this household and poor Lucas didn’t stand a chance. And now I’m reading EG is pregnant?! When did this come out?

MOO


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I can't recall exactly when PB told us here, but she said the family had known for at least a month at that time, which lead us to speculate she either knew when LH went missing, or found out as soon as she went to jail. So I'd guess we learned around mid to late March.

 

[newsjunkie]

Do we have any current posters who are verified attorneys? I know PB & a couple of others work in legal offices.

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I haven’t seen her in this thread, but Gitana is a verified lawyer. I saw her over in the Turpin thread (the 13 abused kids in CA).

 

[WildcatRunner]

I have to say that yesterday after reading the press coverage of JH arrest, I finally had the lightening bolt come out if the sky. I was looking for motive. After living it, years of therapy, and experiencing it in my job, I have trouble with violence against children. I look for a darn good reason why it occurs. IMO EG has to be one of those who commits retribution violence to even the score and she hits her adversary, in this case JH, where it hurts the most, LUCAS.

APPARENTLY it didn’t take LE and profilers long to put her motive together, hence her arrest. She had to be removed so she did no further harm to anyone else JH loved, his daughter and her unborn child.

In nearly 30 years, I’ve not seen the lack of respect for human life that EG POSESSES. I can’t share the abuse cases that came across my desk but this is among the worst. To harm an innocent child in order to hurt his father is disturbing. LUCAS did nothing to deserve this. IMO. He was born into a a sad environment where the adults were prone to violence. He became the little boy in the way, who became a pawn in an explosive relationship.

To all the LE that worked and continue to work this case, THANK YOU. Do your best to put her right where she belongs. In prison so she can never seek vengeance on a child again. Where if she does choose violence, it will be met with an adult adversary. She should never have acces to another child. Never.

i hope each searcher, especially after LUCAS is found, fights for change in Kansas DCF before another child dies. JH it might be a good thing for you yourself to be involved in that effort. To protect the children who are exposed to violence. Someone has to change the system that so blatantly failed LUCAS.

IMO. SORRY FOR ERRORS. HAND S NOT WORKING WELL THIS MORNING.

This gets me wondering...and maybe FLA can answer if she feels comfortable doing so, were there violent arguments between JH and JO during their time together? Even if not physically violent, were there often loud yelling fights, maybe low blow comments thrown back and forth? The fights where people break up in anger and then get right back together? Or is this a newer pattern of living for JH? Not judging anyone, but knowing if there was a lot of volitility with JO also, would help us to understand JH's personality more accurately, perhaps?

 

[newsjunkie]

I wasn't even lurking on WS back then, but obviously heard a lot about the case due to living in Colorado...and I was of the mindset everyone thought it was Mark Redwine the whole time. Interesting to know that wasn't popular belief.
I suppose there are lots of people (in other venues) who also don't think EG harmed LH, which also feels obvious to me.

I didn’t believe it was MR. Looking back, I think I just didn’t want to believe it. I don’t have that same problem here. So no idea why I did then.

 

[WildcatRunner]

To all of the crazy, stupid and insensitive posts I keep on seeing asking Lucas' family members why they didn't "just take him" and that they let him down; Isabella & Bronte Watter's mother has just been arrested and charged with abducting her children, is now behind bars, her kids are back with their father and she is unable to see them.

Now, I'm not saying that Ms Watter did the right thing and very little information has been released about why she fled with the girls anyway, but I think it's safe to say it was to do with some kind of "alleged" abuse by the father, I happen to not really believe that story and believe more so that she just didn't want to lose her children to anyone. But point is, the girls went back to their father and are now without their Mother... it's not possible to just run with a child and it be ok. If that had of happened, Lucas would be right back where he started, likely in an even worse situation because EG would be mad he told. To take a child away from a situation and get them to safety requires assistance from agencies like CPS/DCF etc etc.

The problem here is with those agencies and the lack of care and concern from them, not with any of Lucas' family members (outside of JH).

(Sorry the link is the DM, but much of the articles have now been removed).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5693847/Mother-charged-abducting-Isabella-Bronte-Watter.html

All of this! I am glad you said this. Family can only do so much before they make themselves into criminals too, in the eyes of the law. I feel that LH's family did everything they could, and the system failed them, and failed Lucas. And people saying otherwise to them doesn't help...these people are dealing with a tremendous loss, and I am sure are questioning if they could have done more, even though deep down they know they did everything they could have.

 

[Kuyluc2764]

I don't think I have seen the picture of Lucas that is on the right. So sad the amount of pictures that exist of this child covered in bruises.

Source: http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/05/...ter-deaths-disappearance-of-several-children/

Oh my. Poor sweet Lucas. I have seen the one on the left but not the right. I wonder if his forehead always protruded like that (left pic) or if he has a big goose egg on his forehead? FLA? Those lashes though! He's a little Snuffleupagus!I am so sorry he went through what he did. UGH! I just want to cry every time I see a pic of him!

 

[WildcatRunner]

random thought: if it turns out there were forged or inaccurate doctor's notes, i wonder if EG showed these to JH in addition to the school to support her version of events?

i think there have been some good posts about how it is difficult to view JH as black or white in this situation - yes, he should have definitely done more but yes, it also seems he was manipulated & blinded by his partner.

im wondering if Lucas' abuse was something EG didnt both to cover up about w JH and he looked the other way/she knew that or if she actively was defensive/had a narrative for him about how something happened/how Lucas was clumsy.

(to be clear, im not defending JHs behavior/saying a DR note should have been proof enough for him, just trying to picture what their household & dynamic was like)

This is a good thought. We've questioned how the date of KE's alleged offenses ties into the LH. What if there were earlier notes, or faked records of doctors' visits that were forged and shown to JH, to say, "Hey, no the doctor says he's fine, just a bug, or nope, doctor agrees he fell," because maybe JH did question the constant injuries, and originally she was faking doctor visits to cover up only to JH, and the notes to the school came into play later on, when the school began asking questions too.

 

[deedee21]

Since Lucas has been missing far longer than many expected and LE is releasing very little new information at this point, frustrations are running high in this case.

Here's a link to some friendly reminders about dealing with your fellow posters:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?91915-Dealing-with-your-fellow-posters

:tyou:

Is there a time limit on how much time will be spent looking for Lucas.
LE has to put some heavy duty charges together to keep her in jail.

 

[kkdj]

This is a good thought. We've questioned how the date of KE's alleged offenses ties into the LH. What if there were earlier notes, or faked records of doctors' visits that were forged and shown to JH, to say, "Hey, no the doctor says he's fine, just a bug, or nope, doctor agrees he fell," because maybe JH did question the constant injuries, and originally she was faking doctor visits to cover up only to JH, and the notes to the school came into play later on, when the school began asking questions too.

Good thoughts. But, wouldn't Lucas be telling his daddy if he went to the Dr, if his injuries were from EG smacking him around, throwing things at him? He told others. Wouldn't he be telling his daddy?

 

[ScarlettLin]

We need to get an attorney on here. Did KE have court yesterday

She requested a continuance
http://www.dc18.org/courtscheduling/cratty/crattytoday.pdf

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[kkdj]

Since we know that EG's son is claiming that JH was violent physically and verbally with him and to others, I wonder if EG was getting back at JH thru Lucas. Then I also wonder if JH was getting back at EG for hurting Lucas. So, a constant you do this to mine, I'll do this to yours mentality, not considering the harm to the children but a get back at each other. Does that make sense?
As stupid and immature as I think this mentality is, I have definitely known people who think like this and conduct themselves as such.

 

[Stacy zelepos]

She requested a continuance
http://www.dc18.org/courtscheduling/cratty/crattytoday.pdf

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How many times can she continue this?

 

[Amonet]

I don't think I have seen the picture of Lucas that is on the right. So sad the amount of pictures that exist of this child covered in bruises.

Source: http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/05/...ter-deaths-disappearance-of-several-children/

Lucas does seem to be pictured way too many times with bruising around his forehead and eyes. I don't know if this sounds insensitive, but what would be likely ways for bruising like that to be sustained?

The picture on the left there looks like he's been hit with an object. Lucas himself reported that EG threw a bottle of water at his face/head. I am thinking that being hit with an object/having an object thrown would be a more likely cause for these type of injuries that being slapped?

I also keep thinking of that photo from January. It looks like there's at least two different sets of facial bruises from at least two different occasions. The abrasion nature of the wound on the nose makes me think that the falling out of a truck story might be at least partially true -- maybe he was dragged out and 'fell' as someone let go of him as they dragged him from the car? Total conjecture due to thinking of how EG might treat him. But there are other bruises that look older and fading and don't seem to line up with the same incident.

If things have been thrown at Lucas a lot, I think there's a possibility of hairline fractures showing up when he's found.

I was also taken with the post about an abuser choosing methods of abuse where they can convince themselves they are not directly responsible, like dragging a child and throwing them around roughly. It does feel right for EG and maybe lends itself to her proclaiming, in response to allegations of abuse, that "oh no, *I* didn't do it! He just fell!" Sort of he fell off the sofa and hit the corner of the coffee table [right after I dragged him off the sofa into the path of the coffee table and let go so that he *fell* into it] all by himself.

 

[1bratmom]

Good thoughts. But, wouldn't Lucas be telling his daddy if he went to the Dr, if his injuries were from EG smacking him around, throwing things at him? He told others. Wouldn't he be telling his daddy?

IMO Because he knew he dad wouldn't do a thing. My guess would be Lucas lived with domestic violence his whole life. He watched adults, his protectors battle each other. I would think there were many things in the household that went EG's way without reason. Lucas had to grow up real fast. He had to learn to predict his caretakers violent triggers to save his life.

Lucas could have had more than 1 abuser. I'm not sure. I'd say Lucas did not feel safe from EG's revenge with JH. Bluntly Lucas didn't trust his dad.

He would tell other OUTSIDE the household because he was beyond EG's reach. Or at least in reach of someone he felt safe with.

I really think JH's absence in the home importance is overlooked. Not in proving JH's innocent victim status but in seeing the dynamics that would allow EG to murder Lucas on her own. Take JH's victim status make him a POI- Still IMO the known facts do not point to JH in the direct acts of Lucas's disappearance. At this time at least.

All MOO

 

[kkdj]

IMO Because he knew he dad wouldn't do a thing. My guess would be Lucas lived with domestic violence his whole life. He watched adults, his protectors battle each other. I would think there were many things in the household that went EG's way without reason. Lucas had to grow up real fast. He had to learn to predict his caretakers violent triggers to save his life.

Lucas could have had more than 1 abuser. I'm not sure. I'd say Lucas did not feel safe from EG's revenge with JH. Bluntly Lucas didn't trust his dad.

He would tell other OUTSIDE the household because he was beyond EG's reach. Or at least in reach of someone he felt safe with.

I really think JH's absence in the home importance is overlooked. Not in proving JH's innocent victim status but in seeing the dynamics that would allow EG to murder Lucas on her own. Take JH's victim status make him a POI- Still IMO the known facts do not point to JH in the direct acts of Lucas's disappearance. At this time at least.

All MOO

I don't think that JH was directly involved in Lucas's disappearance. But I do think he allowed him to be abused which ultimately led to his disappearance imo.