Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #21 *Arrest*

[kkdj]

JH is charged with battery to EG 6 yo child for “smacking and pushing” him.

Imo EG went after LUCAS in retribution.

Its how they lived. It’s how they fought. It’s clearly been the case
Since the judge ordered her to parenting classes. Which she failed to attend.

This was NOT her first inappropriate outburst. Imo no one recognized the terrible danger any of those children were exposed to in that home. By the time a judge sees these cases it’s repetative and long term. DCF should have removed those kids after investigation before the original accusations were made months ago.

BBM
This is what I clumsily was trying to say earlier.
EG knew her ex was going to try to cut off visitation again after this happened with their son and JH. That's why she lied about her kicking him out. The only thing in the way of that lie would be Lucas.......unless he wasn't there.

 

[ScarlettLin]

Imo and I’m trying to be very polite.

DCFS STATEMENTS ARE POLITICAL RHETORIC. IVE WRITTEN ALMOST THE SAME exact language FOR AGENCIES TO RELIEVE THE POLITICAL HEAT.

IF THE CHANGES HAD BEEN MADE THAT LAST CHILD KILLED IN THE LAST FEW DAYS WOULD BE ALIVE.

They’re in the process of change. Reviewing records, and performance, going through the whole agency even just the regional wichita part of the dept is not going to happen overnight.
It is a process.
People are being fired and replaced. New training is occurring. Transparency is being demanded at every level.
It is a process.



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[ScarlettLin]

BBM
This is what I clumsily was trying to say earlier.
EG knew her ex was going to try to cut off visitation again after this happened with their son and JH. That's why she lied about her kicking him out. The only thing in the way of that lie would be Lucas.......unless he wasn't there.

But Lucas WAS there. After she told her ex she had kicked JH out (2/4) when the boys came for their visit on 2/11, when the neighbor saw them...
Whoah
It said in documents regarding her visits that she got the boys Wednesday and Sunday for a few hours
Valentines Day was a Wednesday
Then we also have the lie to JH about where Lucas was on VD
I’m starting to see the edges....


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[kkdj]

But Lucas WAS there. After she told her ex she had kicked JH out (2/4) when the boys came for their visit on 2/11, when the neighbor saw them...
Whoah
It said in documents regarding her visits that she got the boys Wednesday and Sunday for a few hours
Valentines Day was a Wednesday
Then we also have the lie to JH about where Lucas was on VD
I’m starting to see the edges....


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Righteo. Can you imagine if EG told her ex she kicked JH out, then had Lucas on the 11th? He probably asked why and she probably said she was just babysitting him or something. It would have looked pretty suspicious if she was "babysitting" on VD too. Although we don't know where Lucas was on VD, we do know EG lied about his whereabouts to JH and that he was alive on the 16th when the LL saw him.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I am holding back on judging JH for this incident as I do think it sounds like the boy might have been misbehaving and JH could have reacted in anger to push the boy away from another child in the room that was maybe getting covered in the spray, having trouble breathing or got the spray in their eyes. In that situation I would be annoyed.

From the description of the charge it sounds like JH may have raised his voice/shouted and also maybe sworn at the child. If the incident was something like the spray affecting another child, then I would shout too, though I would avoid the swear words, and especially not direct swear words or derogatory comments to a child (I would say that's stupid behavior rather than tell the child they are stupid, for example).

I also think there's a story here of a man who's concerned about that home (with EG and JH) not being a suitable/safe place for his children, he's seen his child with a bruise, asked carefully how the child got the bruise, and he's chosen to prioritize his children's safety and report this to the police.

I sincerely hope that JH did not observe EG treating Lucas badly and giving Lucas those bruises. I hope she did those things behind JH's back and when he was out of town. I hope JH didn't treat Lucas the same way. If JH had a habit of treating the boys this way I'd be surprised that their father wouldn't have complained about it? The relatives who reported abuse in NM only said they suspected EG of abusing Lucas. In the write-up complaints it was said that Lucas was saying EG was mean to him, mistreating him, nothing was said about JH. When Lucas told his relatives those things I would be very surprised if they hadn't asked Lucas if his dad had been doing similar things to him. I would also think they might have asked Lucas, "where was your daddy when this happened?" to find out if JH was in the house, in the same room, or if he was out of town at the time?

But just because JH might not have physically harmed Lucas himself, that does not mean that JH couldn't have harmed EG's sons. It seems as if one attacks the others kids to me.

Also, Amonet, I want to ask you this but I don't want it to come across as callous or rude or anything, I am generally wondering but, I'm not sure it can be worded as nice and fair as I mean it, anyway, here goes:

Do you really think it makes a lick of difference whether JH witnessed the abuse or not when it was so clear to see? Surely that would have been completely obvious to him. It is to us? I'm not sure that I can push past him being somewhat guilty. A witness is a witness. He either witnesses the beatings Lucas received, or he witnessed his injuries, or both, but still he chose to ignore it for her.

 

[Alice253]

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

 

[DakotaMayi]

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

Great question. Exactly. Do they view Lucas' care level less than they do her boys? It's crazy to say, you're unfit to have this child, but here, have this one. I honestly don't understand. There is no way that makes any sense.

 

[PhoneJockey]

I do wonder why EG's other son was spraying so much air freshener...perhaps they were sick of the smell? An MJ smell maybe? A meth smell? (btw-- does meth even smell?)

Meh, maybe, but little kids like to spray stuff. I have to keep Lysol, Febreeze and even spray deoderant put up or my 5 year old will spray a ton.......then whine at me because it's making her cough :facepalm:

My oldest son totally ruined a stack of dvd's when he was about 3 by spraying cooking spray, which settled on the discs.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

But just because JH might not have physically harmed Lucas himself, that does not mean that JH couldn't have harmed EG's sons. It seems as if one attacks the others kids to me.

Also, Amonet, I want to ask you this but I don't want it to come across as callous or rude or anything, I am generally wondering but, I'm not sure it can be worded as nice and fair as I mean it, anyway, here goes:

Do you really think it makes a lick of difference whether JH witnessed the abuse or not when it was so clear to see? Surely that would have been completely obvious to him. It is to us? I'm not sure that I can push past him being somewhat guilty. A witness is a witness. He either witnesses the beatings Lucas received, or he witnessed his injuries, or both, but still he chose to ignore it for her.

I agree with you Ana. I hold JH accountable, despite any ifs, ands or buts. He looked the other way because it was easier! Plain and simple. I read Amonet's ending comment as one of support for Lucas' family; that they had no reason to suspect JH at the time, except for possible neglect (abuse in its most common form) or they would have included his name in the report. I agree with all that acknowledge the deep emotions we have connected to this little boy. My heart is with FLA.

 

[PhoneJockey]

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

From my experience, they tend to look at it on a per child basis. OK, so she was caught doing X,Y and Z to/around her bio sons, which led to her getting less time with them and requiring parenting classes. She was never accused of harming Lucas (as far as I know) before JH got custody of him, so a judge might overlook the incidents with her own boys, especially if she was making it seem like she was improving herself. It might not have even come up in court when JH was gainonig custody of Lucas because JO wasn't objecting to him having custody and it was his own relative who had Lucas before that. If she seemed ok to everyone involved in the custody exchange at the time, there would have been no reason for any of them to bring it up. In fact, I doubt anyone in JH's family knew the full truth as to why EG didn't have custody of her children - JH might not have even known.

This is along the same line of reasoning when it comes to women who have their children removed from their care, yet have another child and be allowed to keep custody of it.

It's 2018, we have the technology to make cross referencing issues like this a snap and I feel doing just that would go a long way with keeping these kiddos safe and away from people with abusive/neglectful histories.

 

[Mama3boys]

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

Which company was withholding information and altering documents? Was important information even given to the judge? I don't want to add the judge to the list of growing individuals that failed Lucas just yet.

 

[flute4peace]

This is a very good question. I too would be curious to know other children in the household are taken into consideration in cases like that. Is it possible the judge didn't even know of Lucas and MH's existence? (hypothetical, not expecting you to have the answer )

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

 

[Voicesfortheunknown]

I am going to try to ask this question without confusing anything. How did CPS and the judge who were handling her case with her 2 sons manage to overlook the fact that even though she did not have custody of her own two sons, and very limited visitation with them which was supervised up until October (I think) of last year, she was able to have Lucas in her home 24/7 and "care" for him? If she could not be trusted with her own 2 sons, why did they leave Lucas there? It had to be known by both CPS and the judge, because IIRC, the fact that she was caring for him was part of her petition to get further visitation with her own 2 boys. This has really been bothering me, because CPS and the judge should not have allowed her to care for Lucas either, IMO. Am I just off in left field somewhere?

Unfortunately, IMO cps and other like departments don't feel the need to worry about any other children not involved in their case. I know of a register sex offender who was convicted of abusing a female child under the age of 14. He is currently living with a girlfriend with a daughter who is 12 has been living with this girl since she was eight! how is that okay? It's not but because of limited resources and man power this family is being overlooked. I feel it was this way with EG and JH

 

[margarita25]

I don't think I have seen the picture of Lucas that is on the right. So sad the amount of pictures that exist of this child covered in bruises.

Source: http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/05/...ter-deaths-disappearance-of-several-children/

Goddddd... How could she? How could HE let this fly?? He condoned this abuse!!! (If not even participated moo)

How many pictures are there total? This will be huge for the prosecution.

Eta: I am siiiickkkk!! Over and over again!!

We are all heartbroken and furious! I want to get in that cell with her!!!!!

FURIOUS!!!!! #$/^&@

 

[AlwaysHopeToHelp]

Unfortunately, IMO cps and other like departments don't feel the need to worry about any other children not involved in their case. I know of a register sex offender who was convicted of abusing a female child under the age of 14. He is currently living with a girlfriend with a daughter who is 12 has been living with this girl since she was eight! how is that okay? It's not but because of limited resources and man power this family is being overlooked. I feel it was this way with EG and JH

This is particularly horrifying to me as my ex has every intention of access with grandkids (not our daughter he abused and went to prison for) when all I can think is “holy crap! Don’t you think that he will learn from his mistake and abuse a child too young to talk next time?!” ::mindblown::


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[margarita25]

Can anyone tell me if luminol was ever used in the rental home? I know her hands were supposedly messed up badly from all the cleaning she was said to have done. Looks more like chemical burns to me and have been going over in my head some scary scenarios as to why she'd be cleaning with bleach or similar materials. How was Lucas removed from the home? They cleared the vehicle she drove, correct?

My guess Yellow Rose is that yes Luminolol would be used, that this would be standard procedure. Moo.

 

[margarita25]

No that was just speculation on my part that the hands might have chemical/cleansing agent burns on them. I say that because when I'm cleaning tile I use a solvent that has a bleaching agent in it and my hands get all red and itchy afterwards.

I can't help but wonder about chemicals used for additional purposes. Relisha Rudd comes to mind. KT purchased garbage bags and lye before he offed himself. They too searched for Relisha in the park. Relisha has not been found to date.

 

[margarita25]

I don’t think I’ve seen that one either. This is so heartbreaking.

(Mistree... :tears: )

 

[ScarlettLin]

From my experience, they tend to look at it on a per child basis. OK, so she was caught doing X,Y and Z to/around her bio sons, which led to her getting less time with them and requiring parenting classes. She was never accused of harming Lucas (as far as I know) before JH got custody of him, so a judge might overlook the incidents with her own boys, especially if she was making it seem like she was improving herself. It might not have even come up in court when JH was gainonig custody of Lucas because JO wasn't objecting to him having custody and it was his own relative who had Lucas before that. If she seemed ok to everyone involved in the custody exchange at the time, there would have been no reason for any of them to bring it up. In fact, I doubt anyone in JH's family knew the full truth as to why EG didn't have custody of her children - JH might not have even known.

This is along the same line of reasoning when it comes to women who have their children removed from their care, yet have another child and be allowed to keep custody of it.

It's 2018, we have the technology to make cross referencing issues like this a snap and I feel doing just that would go a long way with keeping these kiddos safe and away from people with abusive/neglectful histories.

Yes it is 2018 and with electronic records it is absolutely possible for cross checking to happen in theory. The sad, sad truth is departments all across the board are highly territorial and getting departments and agencies to share information is worse than pulling teeth. This is one reason CODIS and other cross referencing platforms are grossly behind where they should be at this time. It’s not just child abuse/neglect; sexual offenders and predators; felons; dna on file; the list goes on and on and on.


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[Amonet]

But just because JH might not have physically harmed Lucas himself, that does not mean that JH couldn't have harmed EG's sons. It seems as if one attacks the others kids to me.

Also, Amonet, I want to ask you this but I don't want it to come across as callous or rude or anything, I am generally wondering but, I'm not sure it can be worded as nice and fair as I mean it, anyway, here goes:

Do you really think it makes a lick of difference whether JH witnessed the abuse or not when it was so clear to see? Surely that would have been completely obvious to him. It is to us? I'm not sure that I can push past him being somewhat guilty. A witness is a witness. He either witnesses the beatings Lucas received, or he witnessed his injuries, or both, but still he chose to ignore it for her.

I don't know. I suppose for me it depends on what was truly going on inside his head, and how he truly behaved around the children, and I feel like I don't have enough direct evidence.

The incident with JH and the son of EG, it sounds like it might be a response to something immediate that was happening right there and then, albeit inappropriate response. I feel like EG wasn't hurting Lucas as a response to anything but simply because she could and she wanted to? JH might have been rough in telling off Lucas, it sounds like JH delegated too much parenting responsibility to EG because she's the woman in the house.

I think that however JH treated EG's boys, he probably treated Lucas in a similar way.

If I think about the descriptions in that document of the iron-shaped bruise on Lucas, the hand-shaped bruising on his arm....you're right. I suppose I have been thinking that the worst of the abuse has been happening when JH was out of state and he's fallen for all the excuses and all the "poor me, all your family hates me" from EG. I don't think that being blind to the truth precludes JH coming home and seeing poor little Lucas with a bruise on his face and saying "come and have a cuddle, my poor little guy, what happened here?" and Lucas being scared to tell the truth? And I want Lucas to have felt safe with his dad and at least been less scared of EG when JH was around.

I don't take what you've said as callous or rude, I think they are utterly fair and reasonable questions to ask.

I want Lucas found. I want the person responsible on trial and in prison. I want MH to grow up safe and happy, and the same for the child EG is carrying.