Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #29

[enw10110]

I respectfully disagree. I think...I reserve the right to change my mind (again).

I think about JO's description of JH. If he succumbed to chaos, it was over time.

I think he loved Lucas and looked forward to time off with him. I also think he held an antiquated view of family life -- he's the working man on the long, hard road and EG was the domestic goddess.

While I believe he may have physically disciplined Lucas on occasion, I don't believe it started until after EG was in the picture -- and by this, I mean swat/spank -- not paddling, whooping, or beating. He talked about how well-behaved Lucas was; he didn't seem like someone to hide, no frustration with behavior or attempts to blame Lucas.

When he flew off the handle with EG's son, was he already tense in a fight with EG? Was he defending Lucas or MH? Was he irritated at the hypocrisy that EG had full reign over his kids but he couldn't even correct them? None of these things are excuses, but a way to understand.

I think he believed EG was his after an abusive relationship and that they were trying to make a home-sweet-home for their 2 shared children & her 2 boys. He's not stupid. But he stayed with EG after DV -- that tells me she had him in her pocket.

I also think he had a great amount of pride. Pride means you handle your own business -- it's your business, and there's no tolerance for prying. I think he *thought* he had a handle on things -- we don't know the private conversations between him & EG or what he's told LE, but I am thinking he bought EG's line -- why would she lie to him about his child? It was her "job" to care for the children. In his mind, he may have followed simple reasoning -- he didn't see bruises on her boys or MH so... Lucas must just be clumsy. He could understand it because at one time he thought Lucas would have developmental problems. Or being a boy -- in that case, even better.

We know he & EG argued. But it was "effortless" because it was easy for him to visit & leave--no doubt EG showered him with love, food, & sex when he was home. Lucas was happy to see him and sad when he left -- everything fed his idea and image of being an appreciated, hard-working husband and father.
Think about it -- it's heartbreaking to be away from family that long -- but the benefit is that there is virtually little to no responsibility when coming home. It's all good times and love and catching up.

Did EG have him in her pocket or did he have her in his? How would she have left him after the DV? She was homeless with no job. How would he have left her? Easily. Even when he was home, he sent her to get LH from school. If you were gone 2/3rds of the month, wouldn't you pick up your kids from school when you were home? Especially when they're sick. What if EG was the one who was "wronged" in the relationship and she felt powerless to leave and therefore looked for control elsewhere (by beating JH's son)? I know JO said he never hit her, but she also said he wasn't on drugs when he was with her (which, with respect to JO, is doubtful) and she thinks he is now.

I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know these people, but in my mind, there's a lot more evidence that he's abusive than not. Though it is nice to think that Lucas had a stable parent, so I can see why people keep going out on that limb.

 

[AlwaysHopeToHelp]

I respectfully disagree. I think...I reserve the right to change my mind (again).

I think about JO's description of JH. If he succumbed to chaos, it was over time.

I think he loved Lucas and looked forward to time off with him. I also think he held an antiquated view of family life -- he's the working man on the long, hard road and EG was the domestic goddess.

While I believe he may have physically disciplined Lucas on occasion, I don't believe it started until after EG was in the picture -- and by this, I mean swat/spank -- not paddling, whooping, or beating. He talked about how well-behaved Lucas was; he didn't seem like someone to hide, no frustration with behavior or attempts to blame Lucas.

When he flew off the handle with EG's son, was he already tense in a fight with EG? Was he defending Lucas or MH? Was he irritated at the hypocrisy that EG had full reign over his kids but he couldn't even correct them? None of these things are excuses, but a way to understand.

I think he believed EG was his after an abusive relationship and that they were trying to make a home-sweet-home for their 2 shared children & her 2 boys. He's not stupid. But he stayed with EG after DV -- that tells me she had him in her pocket.

I also think he had a great amount of pride. Pride means you handle your own business -- it's your business, and there's no tolerance for prying. I think he *thought* he had a handle on things -- we don't know the private conversations between him & EG or what he's told LE, but I am thinking he bought EG's line -- why would she lie to him about his child? It was her "job" to care for the children. In his mind, he may have followed simple reasoning -- he didn't see bruises on her boys or MH so... Lucas must just be clumsy. He could understand it because at one time he thought Lucas would have developmental problems. Or being a boy -- in that case, even better.

We know he & EG argued. But it was "effortless" because it was easy for him to visit & leave--no doubt EG showered him with love, food, & sex when he was home. Lucas was happy to see him and sad when he left -- everything fed his idea and image of being an appreciated, hard-working husband and father.
Think about it -- it's heartbreaking to be away from family that long -- but the benefit is that there is virtually little to no responsibility when coming home. It's all good times and love and catching up.

Totally true (BBM), my ex husband worked offshore and I would not make him lift a finger while home. I mowed, I cleaned, I cooked and I sexed. I saw it as my “job” to make his time home to be “effortless” and many friends with husbands also in the oil field did the same. He loved it! And then when he was gone, I might not cook near as much (not from laziness but I have never learned to cook for 2 people and hate eating left overs for days), I saw my friends and did my part of life. When he was home, it was all about him!
I can see her doing the same, easily.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Yes, and that confused me, because DM also said he asked JH to go and to leave them alone together, so JH went on back to work.

But if EG was at her Aunt's house, why would JH be asked to go and leave DM and EG alone?

I think DM knew that EG would use JH's presence to her advantage. He needed to be long gone, hours & hours away, not just around the corner or out for a bit. DM didn't know they would find Lucas that day -- he just wanted a crack at her without her trying to postpone anything for hours until JH returned. IMO.

 

[ScarlettLin]

Who is "KSI" who wrote the sign in the picture in this article?

When did Lucas Hernandez die? No reported confirmed sightings of the 5-yr-old since Feb. 11, a week before reported missing

The family (JH & JO) spokesperson

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Did EG have him in her pocket or did he have her in his? How would she have left him after the DV? She was homeless with no job. How would he have left her? Easily. Even when he was home, he sent her to get LH from school. If you were gone 2/3rds of the month, wouldn't you pick up your kids from school when you were home? Especially when they're sick. What if EG was the one who was "wronged" in the relationship and she felt powerless to leave and therefore looked for control elsewhere (by beating JH's son)? I know JO said he never hit her, but she also said he wasn't on drugs when he was with her (which, with respect to JO, is doubtful) and she thinks he is now.

I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know these people, but in my mind, there's a lot more evidence that he's abusive than not. Though it is nice to think that Lucas had a stable parent, so I can see why people keep going out on that limb.

I can see it. I can see where he might be more emotionally abusive -- holding what he's done for her over her head. Physical VS Verbal -- not getting into comparisons because they're both evil. EG & JH may have been toxic, codependent, and equally evil but using different weapons.

On the other hand, he may have really loved EG. Even though he had more means than she did, it doesn't mean he wanted her to leave or would have punished her if she did. He may have really seen the positive qualities in her only.

All I'm trying to say is that I don't know if I believe JH was the type to physically discipline or abuse regularly. I can also see that he put all household/children duties on EG. Antiquated, like I mentioned before -- why should he pick up the boy from school? Doesn't mean he loved him less or that he beat him, kwim? May not be a guy we'd choose, lacking enlightenment, but it doesn't mean he was abusive.

And, I could be completely wrong about this guy. Any efforts to see his point of view is not an effort to defend him but to understand different factors/nuances that could define culpability as well as what Lucas had to live with.

 

[Steelslady]

Ugh, are folks switching sides now or am I reading this wrong? Most of the abuse came when Jonathan was gone. Her own ex said she got violent with him while he was holding one of their children.

Something kind of softened me a little bit (tiny bit, ok?) when I thought about Valentine's Day and how Jonathan sent home gifts to them all. His little girl and Lucas. I do think he loved them with all of his heart, and I do think in his heart, he would do anything for them. I never doubted his love for the kids at all. I think of how his world was toppled over, turned upside down. In one night- Saturday night. After that, a nightmare began that never ends for him.

What I am wondering- had his daughter and Lucas been from the same mom, and he had no to ties to Emily in terms of a child, might his eyes have opened up sooner, would he have left her, if both children weren't hers? Did he feel obligated to stay with her because of the baby?

Also, perhaps he really is just having a God awful time dealing with the fact that the woman that he's been with for a couple of years now, built a life, family and home with- maybe, just maybe, his mind can't go there right now that she actually killed Lucas and tossed him aside like trash. Maybe this isn't about Jonathan being in love with Emily, or believing Emily. Maybe just maybe, he is really afraid to acknowledge this, to break down and admit this, because he might feel like he wouldn't be able to control himself or stop himself from losing it completely. Totally understandable, if this is the case.

I do hope and pray he is getting help from a therapist. Perhaps he really is holding in so much, feels all alone, and doesn't know who he can trust anymore. Think about it- the one you loved, cared about, provided for, raised a family with, moved into a new home with- kills your child. It messed with his psyche. Denial was much much easier than reality.

I also hope there is a counselor provided by the funeral home there the day of Lucas' burial, for both JO and JH.

 

[WildcatRunner]

You raise some really good points here. The one thing that gives me pause about the LL sighting is that one doesn't just mix up "yesterday" and "a week ago" when being questioned about a missing child. I mean, I'm as forgetful as they come, but I just don't think I would be that far off when it came down to supposedly seeing a kid on the night he allegedly died. This is a high-profile, public case, not what was for supper, ya know? I'm still of the mind that there's something very off about the sighting/timeline.

I agree. I could mix up Tuesday for Wednesday. Or 3 weeks ago for 4 weeks ago. But I'm not going to mix up 4 days ago with 11 days ago

 

[WildcatRunner]

Ugh, are folks switching sides now or am I reading this wrong? Most of the abuse came when Jonathan was gone. Her own ex said she got violent with him while he was holding one of their children.

Something kind of softened me a little bit (tiny bit, ok?) when I thought about Valentine's Day and how Jonathan sent home gifts to them all. His little girl and Lucas. I do think he loved them with all of his heart, and I do think in his heart, he would do anything for them. I never doubted his love for the kids at all. I think of how his world was toppled over, turned upside down. In one night- Saturday night. After that, a nightmare began that never ends for him.

What I am wondering- had his daughter and Lucas been from the same mom, and he had to ties to Emily in terms of a child, might his eyes have opened up sooner, would he have left her, if both children weren't hers? Did he feel obligated to stay with her because of the baby?

Also, perhaps he really is just having a God awful time dealing with the fact that the woman that he's been with for a couple of years now, built a life, family and home with- maybe, just maybe, his mind can't go there right now that she actually killed Lucas and tossed him aside like trash. Maybe this isn't about Jonathan being in love with Emily, or believing Emily. Maybe just maybe, he is really afraid to acknowledge this, to break down and admit this, because he might feel like he wouldn't be able to control himself or stop himself from losing it completely. Totally understandable, if this is the case.

I do hope and pray he is getting help from a therapist. Perhaps he really is holding in so much, feels all alone, and doesn't know who he can trust anymore. Think about it- the one you loved, cared about, provided for, raised a family with, moved into a new home with- kills your child. It messed with his psyche. Denial was much much easier than reality.

I also hope there is a counselor provided by the funeral home there the day of Lucas' burial, for both JO and JH.

All of what you've said is how I've felt all along. He made some mistakes when it came to being realistic about what happened to Lucas. But I don't the ever imagined it was as bad as it was, and he had all the feelings you mentioned. And now, it's still hard for him to just come right out with that because once you admit reality, there's no holding back.

 

[WildcatRunner]

Have we touched on them allegedly doing 2 autopsies within a short period of time? I am curious to hear the reasons you all might have for them needing to do a second autopsy almost immediately after completing the first.

A second opinion is going to hold up better in court. Remember, an ME is a doctor...many people get a second opinion from doctors when the diagnosis is major.

 

[AlwaysHopeToHelp]

Oh and let's not for

Wouldn't LE know if he Factimed or not with Lucas? I would imagine they would be able to get that off of the computer or whichever phone Lucas would have used to talk to his father.

It was never confirmed by LE, but it wasn't denied, either. Too many open ends.

They could see that he FaceTimed someone but they couldn’t see the video and know whom all he FaceTimed. Only that he called her number via FaceTime. No way to know if he actually saw Lucas a text all.

 

[PhoneJockey]

Hmmm......we know, per JO's interview, that JH and EG both took polygraphs and that JH passed. I'm wondering if one of the questions was about the last time JH saw/spoke with Lucas.

Sidenote: How do I get a mod to start a thread for another missing child? There is a 2 year old autistic girl missing in Kentucky. Her grandmother woke up to an open door and found the girl and their dog both missing.

*Edit - nevermind, I did find a thread for the little girl! I would still like to know the procedure if I need to get one started another time!

 

[liltexans]

Hmmm......we know, per JO's interview, that JH and EG both took polygraphs and that JH passed. I'm wondering if one of the questions was about the last time JH saw/spoke with Lucas.

Sidenote: How do I get a mod to start a thread for another missing child? There is a 2 year old autistic girl missing in Kentucky. Her grandmother woke up to an open door and found the girl and their dog both missing.

There’s a thread for little Charlee. Here’s the link:

ACTIVE SEARCH - Ky - Charlee Campbell, 2, *autistic* & Pitbull Terrier Named Penny, Bullitt County, 7 Jun 2018

 

[gngr~snap]

DM alluded to the fact that Lucas’ appearance didn’t match with her story of waking up and he was dead...like something indicated he didn’t just pass on in his sleep. Speculatively on my part, perhaps an apparent head wound...

Or burns.
Inside the lungs on even on the skin called "eschar".
He was reportedly partially mummified or did I dream that?
I'm think about being placed into a tub of hot water.
(For instance)
I hope that is not the case!
Burn Wound Infections
"but most deaths in severely burn-injured patients are still due to burn wound sepsis or complications due to inhalation injury."
MOO

 

[PhoneJockey]

There’s a thread for little Charlee. Here’s the link:

ACTIVE SEARCH - Ky - Charlee Campbell, 2, *autistic* & Pitbull Terrier Named Penny, Bullitt County, 7 Jun 2018

Thank you! Sorry about that, she wasn't coming up in the search feature for me, but I found it a ways down on Google search.

 

[gngr~snap]

The PI specifically asked about a concussion and vomit. EG replied with "No I didn't see no vomit"

I really hate that my mind is going here because it's an awfully horrible scenario but is it possible that vomit was visible to PI on/around Lucas at the dump site? 3 months out in the elements though....would that still even possibly BE visible?

As other posters previously mentioned, the part in the recording where PI says "Lucas is the trade-off" still spins in my mind. Trade off for what?

Repeated vomiting causes corrosion of the esophagus.

If he wasn't vomiting, them there has to be an explanation for a raw of burned esophagus.

 

[kkdj]

EG had said that LH had been sick with a stomach flu and vomiting. The nurse said he had been vomiting. JH said he had been vomiting. When the PI asked (if upon finding Lucas dead in his bed in the morning) if there was vomit, EG said there was not.
Just something I've been thinking about.

 

[WildcatRunner]

So we know now he hasn't been exactly honest, covering for her. She was in communication with him while in jail.
Oh the tangled web we weave.

I don't understand what you're saying. He was honest, that's how we know she was in contact. He said she called him twice, then said they are not a couple anymore, now that she is our of jail.
He may not have known she was the person calling, and he also probably wouldn't ignore the calls. If it were me, I'd answer every time, and probably even be nice if I thought she'd admit what happened to my child. Also, she is the mother of his other child there's that connection forever, no matter what.

I don't think JH was perfect, but it seems like a lot of people (here included) have him in a damned if I do position. No matter what he does, it's wrong. I don't like some of his choices, but he has to grieve, and he has another child that maybe he can still become a good dad to.

 

[enw10110]

Ugh, are folks switching sides now or am I reading this wrong? Most of the abuse came when Jonathan was gone. Her own ex said she got violent with him while he was holding one of their children.

Something kind of softened me a little bit (tiny bit, ok?) when I thought about Valentine's Day and how Jonathan sent home gifts to them all. His little girl and Lucas. I do think he loved them with all of his heart, and I do think in his heart, he would do anything for them. I never doubted his love for the kids at all. I think of how his world was toppled over, turned upside down. In one night- Saturday night. After that, a nightmare began that never ends for him.

What I am wondering- had his daughter and Lucas been from the same mom, and he had no to ties to Emily in terms of a child, might his eyes have opened up sooner, would he have left her, if both children weren't hers? Did he feel obligated to stay with her because of the baby?

Also, perhaps he really is just having a God awful time dealing with the fact that the woman that he's been with for a couple of years now, built a life, family and home with- maybe, just maybe, his mind can't go there right now that she actually killed Lucas and tossed him aside like trash. Maybe this isn't about Jonathan being in love with Emily, or believing Emily. Maybe just maybe, he is really afraid to acknowledge this, to break down and admit this, because he might feel like he wouldn't be able to control himself or stop himself from losing it completely. Totally understandable, if this is the case.

I do hope and pray he is getting help from a therapist. Perhaps he really is holding in so much, feels all alone, and doesn't know who he can trust anymore. Think about it- the one you loved, cared about, provided for, raised a family with, moved into a new home with- kills your child. It messed with his psyche. Denial was much much easier than reality.

I also hope there is a counselor provided by the funeral home there the day of Lucas' burial, for both JO and JH.

I'm not switching sides... I've always been anti-JH. I'm also anti-EG, of course, but I think that goes without saying. If JH hadn't made such terrible decisions/life choices before EG killed LH, I wouldn't judge him for his weird behavior now... but he did.

 

[WildcatRunner]

But I believe they indicated it was by a Kwik shop....if this is in fact true, the Address of 5500 E Kellogg is on the opposite side of their said location. I am sry it seems like I am beating a dead horse, I am curious about this whole "accident". This is not a post about the innocence of CR, but what happened to him and why? He was cleared true...but what did he tell them? This young man knew something...Once again...info is misleading....MOO

I think we know what he told them. He was at the house, and he never saw Lucas.

 

[Somer]

i totally agree its possible EG tried to condense all of this (pot smoking, driving while high, kids left home alone) to the 16th/one day to so it seemed the exception, not the rule.

i wonder if EG is the one who said to LE the LL saw Lucas on the 16th in order to strengthen her story Lucas was alive through Saturday afternoon when he was "kidnapped" (meaning he'd be alive when the smoking strangers lurked outside, when JO picked him up for valentines day allegedly and when CR sleeps over).

its definitely risky for her to say he was there if he wasnt but maybe LE is asking her a lot of questions/her story is unraveling so its worth the risk - maybe the LL did call twice on the 16th afternoon which is in her favor (ik she said the LL called twice, i cant remember if we had that confirmed). either way, she took similar odds with JO hopefully not being able to verify her whereabouts on the 14th, so it wouldnt be entirely out of character for her to gamble on saying the LL stopped by and saw Lucas.
.

I think she had become so accustomed to her lies being covered up by JH that she told LE whatever she wanted knowing JH would have her back. When NG asked him what attracted him to her his answer made me think he's still in love with her, even after all this. I want to see him angry. If he never gets to that stage of the grieving process something is just as off with him as it is with her. JMO.