KY KY - Bowling Green, off I-65 NB, WhtFem 12-20, UP102, Red Levi Pants, Jul'84
- Thread starter tabacue
- Start date
carbuff
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
- Messages
- 29,795
- Reaction score
- 72,781
...and MAPS, @carbuff ! How could you forget maps?! I know that Gardener is the timeline guru and carbuff is the map magician!Wait. That actually has a nice ring to it...
I'm actually pretty low-level at maps. We have people who can do magical things with pins and tags and information and everything. I'm pretty much limited to routes and locations. But someday I will learn to do more.
Hm, maybe I should learn some of that stuff and put together a map of Kentucky with all that information in it.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
Has Martha McNiel been mentioned before?
Missing from North Carolina since March 1984.
She’s within an inch and 10 lbs. of Doe’s estimates. 5’0”, 105 lbs. She’s 4 years over the age range, 24 years old. I don’t know when this photo was taken but she looks a little younger than 24, IMO. Not much detail on NamUs other than she was last seen at her mother’s residence and had “a history of domestic violence”.
Missing from North Carolina since March 1984.
She’s within an inch and 10 lbs. of Doe’s estimates. 5’0”, 105 lbs. She’s 4 years over the age range, 24 years old. I don’t know when this photo was taken but she looks a little younger than 24, IMO. Not much detail on NamUs other than she was last seen at her mother’s residence and had “a history of domestic violence”.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
Another interesting possible...
https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/32913/investigations?nav
Marcy Jo Andrews
Chicago, IL - Feb. 1984
https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/32913/investigations?nav
Marcy Jo Andrews
Chicago, IL - Feb. 1984
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
Kelly Frances McBride
Pennsylvania - Feb. 1984
- 21 years old, 5’1”, 120-125 lbs.
- husband was convicted of her murder but she’s never been found
Pennsylvania - Feb. 1984
- 21 years old, 5’1”, 120-125 lbs.
- husband was convicted of her murder but she’s never been found
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
I quite like this one. I see more of a resemblance in the eyes than some of the others...
Lina Barcelos Borges
California - March 1984
- 24 years old, 5’0”, 105 lbs. brown hair & eyes
Lina Barcelos Borges
California - March 1984
- 24 years old, 5’0”, 105 lbs. brown hair & eyes
Melt71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,730
- Reaction score
- 7,715
Hmmm way outside age range though. Assuming dentals were used for aging, these would include things like which teeth were fully erupted, which is v. different in a teen than someone 8-10 years older.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
I opened up the age range a bit for a couple of reasons, or with a couple of things in mind. Her teeth, for one; “She had dental work completed within 4 to 5 years prior to death. She had several fillings and displayed hypoplasia on her two bottom middle teeth.”
I know it’s not entirely impossible, and I’m speaking generally along the lines of my personal (uneducated in this department) thoughts - but for some reason when I read that, within 4-5 years prior, I was thinking ‘did I receive notable dental care when I was 7 or 8?” The answer was no. But we were dirt poor growing up and I’m not entirely sure I saw a dentist for anything, until I was well into my teens.
Obviously that determination is left to the professionals and based on much more than my (un)logic. Then, I rarely search places like NamUs using parameters for anything other than the dates. And even that’s not all that common (Which could be my problem
) but I always think the person I’m looking for could be the first person listed outside of the search parameter.So, the most recent suggestions were based on the premise that age range, in this case, was what was delaying identification. I still think Lorie, Emma and maybe one more mentioned several days ago, are the best suggestions. That haven’t been ruled out (IMO)
ETA: and there may be a detailed report pertaining to dentals, I just didn’t see it (or I did and have forgotten about it)
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
This seems like a really good potential match. It’s impossible to explain everything about this case in a short post so I’m hoping someone will read into it outside of this forum. It’s a lot to take in as there are a ton of articles and things to read about Marliz’ case. I’ll try to summarize. I imagine this killer and the crimes associated with him are only news to me. Her disappearance is the first I’ve ever heard of him. It was worth reading but very difficult learning the details.
I found Marie “Marliz” Elizabeth Spannhake’s profile on The Charley Project and researched a little about her disappearance. It’s worth noting that she does not have a public profile on NamUs and no identifiers are listed for her on Doe Network.
Marliz (19) went missing from Chico, California on January 31, 1976 after an argument with her fiancé. She had moved to Chico from Cleveland, Ohio in December 1975. Colleen Stan (20) was kidnapped at knifepoint from near Red Bluff, California in May 1977 by Cameron and Janice Hooker. Colleen was held captive, tortured and forced into sex slavery for 7 years. She became known as “The Girl in the Box” because of a small wooden box she was forced to live in during most of this time.
Janice helped Colleen escape captivity sometime in 1984, I’m not sure when, and sometime around December 1984 she also confessed to authorities what they had done. Cameron was convicted of multiple offenses in November 1985. I assume he’s still in prison although, for these crimes, he’s eligible for parole in 2022!
The Hookers confessed to abducting Marliz as she was hitchhiking; presumably after the argument with her fiancé and near where Colleen was kidnapped a year later. They claimed to torture and eventually murder Marliz before burying her in a wooded area of Red Bluff. She’s never been found and therefore the Hookers have not been charged in connection to her disappearance and probable murder.
Marliz’ stats: Missing Jan. 1976 from CA
19 years old, 5’5”, 110-120 lbs, brown hair & green eyes
UID’s stats: Found in KY July 1984, PMI up to 2 years
12-20 years old, 4’8”-5’0”, 115 lbs, brown hair
By the looks of her photos, Marliz had something going on with her teeth. It looks like she may be wearing braces in one photo but I don’t see them in the others. The height difference is quite a bit, the PMI is off, and it’s around 2,000 miles between the two cities, but it’s hard to ignore the circumstances and similarities. (IMO)
In the side by side image of the two, I didn’t alter Marliz’s photos, I only rotated them to the same angle as the UID’s.
I found Marie “Marliz” Elizabeth Spannhake’s profile on The Charley Project and researched a little about her disappearance. It’s worth noting that she does not have a public profile on NamUs and no identifiers are listed for her on Doe Network.
Marliz (19) went missing from Chico, California on January 31, 1976 after an argument with her fiancé. She had moved to Chico from Cleveland, Ohio in December 1975. Colleen Stan (20) was kidnapped at knifepoint from near Red Bluff, California in May 1977 by Cameron and Janice Hooker. Colleen was held captive, tortured and forced into sex slavery for 7 years. She became known as “The Girl in the Box” because of a small wooden box she was forced to live in during most of this time.
Janice helped Colleen escape captivity sometime in 1984, I’m not sure when, and sometime around December 1984 she also confessed to authorities what they had done. Cameron was convicted of multiple offenses in November 1985. I assume he’s still in prison although, for these crimes, he’s eligible for parole in 2022!
The Hookers confessed to abducting Marliz as she was hitchhiking; presumably after the argument with her fiancé and near where Colleen was kidnapped a year later. They claimed to torture and eventually murder Marliz before burying her in a wooded area of Red Bluff. She’s never been found and therefore the Hookers have not been charged in connection to her disappearance and probable murder.
Marliz’ stats: Missing Jan. 1976 from CA
19 years old, 5’5”, 110-120 lbs, brown hair & green eyes
UID’s stats: Found in KY July 1984, PMI up to 2 years
12-20 years old, 4’8”-5’0”, 115 lbs, brown hair
By the looks of her photos, Marliz had something going on with her teeth. It looks like she may be wearing braces in one photo but I don’t see them in the others. The height difference is quite a bit, the PMI is off, and it’s around 2,000 miles between the two cities, but it’s hard to ignore the circumstances and similarities. (IMO)
In the side by side image of the two, I didn’t alter Marliz’s photos, I only rotated them to the same angle as the UID’s.
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2016
- Messages
- 11,865
- Reaction score
- 36,647
OT: Oh dear...Do I get to old?....the tempo, the loads of information. Trying to catch up....but your are all soooo very productive...and that's a very good thing. And there are only 5 pages...Back to the beginning.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
I suggested this MP on Walker County Jane Doe’s thread, then realized she looks identical to Carl’s recon of this Doe...
Andria Ann Bailey – The Charley Project
Everything about her disappearance is unclear, including the year. 1979 seems to be the consensus, but I’m hesitant to trust any of the info on her profiles.
Andria Ann Bailey – The Charley Project
Everything about her disappearance is unclear, including the year. 1979 seems to be the consensus, but I’m hesitant to trust any of the info on her profiles.
Melt71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,730
- Reaction score
- 7,715
@MadMcGoo you really should submit this one - I don't say that to people often but the likeness is uncanny. I know the UID was skeletal so Carl was making a well educated guess and so maybe it's not an exact likeness of the UID but I still think you should try.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
I’ve been looking at the photos since I posted this and they are really similar. I was thinking it’s time for me to make a list of all the possible Kentucky matches and forward them to their appropriate agencies. I just haven’t had time to dedicate to it. Yet.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
I’m thinking I may have to submit individually so as not to overwhelm the medical examiner.
She’s got access to the spreadsheet but I’ve not heard anything in regards to the potential matches added there. That’s my goal this weekend; compile a list and get them submitted. I’ve never sent matches to Doe Network or gotten a response from NamUs reps, so I’ll probably go through each case and contact individual agencies.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,628
- Reaction score
- 36,462
Potential Matches:
- Marie Elizabeth Spannhake
- Lorie Ann Blevins
- Valerie Ann Smith
- Susan Elaine Hallowell
- Emma Lorene Vaughn (Courtesy of GJKJR & theshadow45)
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2016
- Messages
- 11,865
- Reaction score
- 36,647
@MadMcGoo Maybe this can be of help with establishing which one to submit and which one not.
Jerry Nance (Retired NCMEC Case Manager) Comments
"You start by taking the physical descriptors (age, height etc, date of disappearance vs Estimated Date of Death) and look for everything that will DISPROVE the Jane or John is so and so.
Once you can not establish that it is not them, then start to work on the other side, look at the distances, known items of clothing, matching scars, tattoos, etc. The more you find on the plus side, the higher is your probability of a match.
Low is nothing positive, but nothing negative, Medium means things like distance and clothing is close, High is the markers that could be distinctive, things like one leg shorter than the other, unique dental work or tooth structure, etc.
Once you have that, then look at the physical pictures but be careful if you are comparing it to a reconstruction because things like hair line nose, lips, ears, etc may not be accurate.
On a comparison of the photos, look at the ears (almost as good as a fingerprint) jaw line, eye sockets, mouth line, arch of eyebrows, general placement of the eyes to the nose to the upper lip. Most people will look at the general face and say yes, that is him. To get better results, break the face up and examine the pieces."
Match Making Tips
Jerry Nance (Retired NCMEC Case Manager) Comments
"You start by taking the physical descriptors (age, height etc, date of disappearance vs Estimated Date of Death) and look for everything that will DISPROVE the Jane or John is so and so.
Once you can not establish that it is not them, then start to work on the other side, look at the distances, known items of clothing, matching scars, tattoos, etc. The more you find on the plus side, the higher is your probability of a match.
Low is nothing positive, but nothing negative, Medium means things like distance and clothing is close, High is the markers that could be distinctive, things like one leg shorter than the other, unique dental work or tooth structure, etc.
Once you have that, then look at the physical pictures but be careful if you are comparing it to a reconstruction because things like hair line nose, lips, ears, etc may not be accurate.
On a comparison of the photos, look at the ears (almost as good as a fingerprint) jaw line, eye sockets, mouth line, arch of eyebrows, general placement of the eyes to the nose to the upper lip. Most people will look at the general face and say yes, that is him. To get better results, break the face up and examine the pieces."
Match Making Tips