KY - Rowan County clerk Kim Davis Jailed for Contempt, 2015

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This is not addressed to anyone in particular. I always find it interesting when atheists tell Christians how to act. FWIW I'm neither.

With all due respect - as much as I can muster - the question is biased. Why not (also?) 'why is a so-called Christian telling anyone, including atheists, how to act?' That order better reflects the case here.

Imo, 'neither' would be a little more embracing to both sides. Jmo.
 
This is not addressed to anyone in particular. I always find it interesting when atheists tell Christians how to act. FWIW I'm neither.

Who is telling anyone how to act? She can act however she wants on her own time, but when she's at work she needs to do her job, and afaik we don't know the religions of everyone who is saying she should. I'm sure it's a mixed bag.

Now that I think about it I don't even know the judge's religion.
 
It's a political thing - they lean neither to the left nor to the right.

Just kidding. IDK.

Ha ha ha!! Pretty good!

What in the world does she hope to ACCOMPLISH with her refusal to issue the licenses? Seriously, what does she think will happen? Her actions are not going to change the law, so what is her ultimate goal?

If her only objective is to adhere to her beliefs, then she needs to resign because the job requires her to issue licenses.

What exactly is the procedure to fire this woman? She currently is not showing up for the job - at what point does that disqualify her from holding the Clerk position? I certainly hope she is not drawing a paycheck while sitting in jail.

But, seriously, she does realize the law is not going to change because of what she's doing, right?

Impeachment. And yes, she still gets her paycheck.

The liberal thing to do would be to find a way, if possible, to accommodate her sincerely-held religious beliefs. It is what a big-hearted society normally does. http://www.getreligion.org/getrelig...vis-is-in-jail-hint-investigate-kentucky-laws

First of all, it is not a "liberal thing" to accommodate a sincerely held religious belief. It's a constitutional thing. People on both the right and left have championed the rights of people who are seeking exemptions or special privileges due to such beliefs. And liberals will always side against those practicing discrimination. And please don't tell me forbidding a person from discriminating against a whole class of people is discrimination against that bigot. It is not. That's not how it works. Forbidding a person from discriminating is not treating a class of people DIFFERENTLY from others. Instead, it is treating such a person the same as everyone else.

Second, her beliefs are not sincerely held. Otherwise, she would deny marriage certificates to people who have been divorced. She is conveniently not doing that even though adultery is listed in the ten commandments and neither gay marriage nor gay sex are. And she is angry, rude and not Christ-like in her dealings with the gay people seeking marriage certificates. So this is about hate, not God.

Third, the Supreme Court has determined that sincerely held religious beliefs can exempt people from following certain laws, like the draft, but it doesn't allow people to violate certain laws if to do so would be to discriminate against a class of people.

Yes, we can argue that the Hobby Lobby case does indeed allow corporations to discriminate against women, but the Hobby Lobby case did not address the free exercise clause of the first amendment which is at issue here. Instead, it side-stepped that and decided the case based on the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act which does not apply to state employees. In any event, in that decision,it was stated that one could not cite a sincerely held religious belief as a means of discriminating against a race of people. One would think, based on the recent SCOTUS decisions that that would apply to sexual orientation as well.

Further, if we are looking at the Kentucky law which allows for exemptions from certain laws if the states compelling interest in upholding the law is mitigated by a less restrictive means of upholding that, all she is being asked to do is to sign a marriage certificate. Having people go elsewhere for another clerk's signature is not the "least restrictive". And having a marriage certificate not endorsed by a clerk would possibly render the certificate invalid.

Moreover, Kim Davis refused today to not interfere with her deputy clerks if they issued the certificates in her stead, which would be a less restrictive option, allowing her to not issue the certificates herself, but allow her office to do so. That was an offer of the court.

Finally, SCOTUS has directly responded to this specific case. In a one-line decision, SCOTUS denied her lengthy request for a stay of the contempt case or of the order that she comply with the law, pending her appeal: "The application for stay presented to Justice Kagan and by her referred to the Court is denied."

It's pretty clear where the Supreme Court stands on Davis' exemption from the law, or lack thereof.
 
Kim+Davis+Marriage+License.JPG

http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Kim+Davis+Marriage+License.JPG

A picture of a Rowan county marriage licence.

The clerk has to certify that the DOB, parentage and previous marriages info is correct and that the wedding seems to be legal according to the laws of Kentucky. The clerk is not required to have to state any opinion about whether the people are fornicators and sinners or whether they will get to heaven or what God thinks about the advisability of the marriage.

JMO I can't remember any passage in the Bible where it says, "thou shalt not write the names of gay people's parents on a piece of papyrus and swear that the information is correct"

Ah. So it clearly shows whether people seeking a certificate have been divorced. And we know this hypocrite is not denying divorced people marriage certificates. Some "sincerely held" belief, huh?
 
In the above-linked video, she was asked "Under whose authority are you not issuing marriage licenses today?"

Her response: "Under god's authority."

This chick is apparently under a delusion of grandeur that God has granted her powers beyond those of her elected office. No doubt she views herself as a 'martyr' for the 'cause'.

If she believes she's called by her higher power and wants to preach to a flock of sheeple, she can resign her political office and start a church somewhere.

Sheeple? :laughing:I couldn't just scroll by. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
 
Here's the thing: As long as I ain't hurtin' nobody and as long as you ain't hurtin' nobody, it's all good.

I couldn't care less who your favorite sky-fairy is, as long as you don't whack me over the head with your favorite fairytale book and as long as you don't try to pass laws based upon whatever book of fairy tales you read, we'll get along.
 
Ha ha ha!! Pretty good!



Impeachment. And yes, she still gets her paycheck.



First of all, it is not a "liberal thing" to accommodate a sincerely held religious belief. It's a constitutional thing. People on both the right and left have championed the rights of people who are seeking exemptions or special privileges due to such beliefs. And liberals will always side against those practicing discrimination. And please don't tell me forbidding a person from discriminating against a whole class of people is discrimination against that bigot. It is not. That's not how it works. Forbidding a person from discriminating is not treating a class of people DIFFERENTLY from others. Instead, it is treating such a person the same as everyone else.

Second, her beliefs are not sincerely held. Otherwise, she would deny marriage certificates to people who have been divorced. She is conveniently not doing that even though adultery is listed in the ten commandments and neither gay marriage nor gay sex are. And she is angry, rude and not Christ-like in her dealings with the gay people seeing marriage certificates. So this is about hate, not God.

Third, the Supreme Court has determined that sincerely held religious beliefs can exempt people from following certain laws, like the draft, but it doesn't allow people to violate certain laws if to do so would be to discriminate against a class of people.

Yes, we can argue that the Hobby Lobby case does indeed allow corporations to discriminate against women, but the Hobby Lobby case did not address the free exercise clause of the first amendment which is at issue here. Instead, it side-stepped that and decided the case based on the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act which does not apply to state employees. In any event, in that decision,it was stated that one could not cite a sincerely held religious belief as a means of discriminating against a race of people. One would think, based on the recent SCOTUS decisions that that would apply to sexual orientation as well.

Further, if we are looking at the Kentucky law which allows for exemptions from certain laws if the states compelling interest in upholding the law is mitigated by a less restrictive means of upholding that, all she is being asked to do is to sign a marriage certificate. Having people go elsewhere for another clerk's signature is not the "least restrictive". And having a marriage certificate not endorsed by a clerk would possibly render the certificate invalid.

Moreover, Kim Davis refused today to not interfere with her deputy clerks if they issued the certificates in her stead, which would be a less restrictive option, allowing her to not issue the certificates herself, but allow her office to do so. That was an offer of the court.

Finally, SCOTUS has directly responded to this specific case. In a one-line decision, SCOTUS denied her lengthy request for a stay of the contempt case or of the order that she comply with the law, pending her appeal: "The application for stay presented to Justice Kagan and by her referred to the Court is denied."

It's pretty clear where the Supreme Court stands on Davis' exemption from the law, or lack thereof.

Good post, just wanted to point out that Davis is an elected official meaning that she took an oath to perform her duties in accordance with the law when she was put into office. IMO that makes it a bit different from the above mentioned companies, i.e., Hobby Lobby etc.
 
Anyone who compares this woman to the great Martin Luther King Jr. needs to seriously reexamine their lives. re: the bolded portion in post 22.
I'm trying to be a delicate as possible, although I think that the members here get what I'm trying to convey.

This woman is dangerous and dumber than a dinner plate, there I said it.
 
Ah. So it clearly shows whether people seeking a certificate have been divorced. And we know this hypocrite is not denying divorced people marriage certificates. Some "sincerely held" belief, huh?

Yeah.. It also says that her current husband has been divorced three times before his wedding to her. So biblically I think she is committing adultery with some other woman's husband.
 
Good post, just wanted to point out that Davis is an elected official meaning that she took an oath to perform her duties in accordance with the law when she was put into office. IMO that makes it a bit different from the above mentioned companies, i.e., Hobby Lobby etc.

Very good point.

Hobby Lobby is running its own business. But this isn't her own private business in which she's being forced to cater to some activity that she finds immoral.

This woman is supposed to be doing the government's business -- meaning, the people's business. She needs to do it or resign her position. There is no middle ground.
 
Kim+Davis+Marriage+License.JPG

http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Kim+Davis+Marriage+License.JPG

A picture of a Rowan county marriage licence.

The clerk has to certify that the DOB, parentage and previous marriages info is correct and that the wedding seems to be legal according to the laws of Kentucky. The clerk is not required to have to state any opinion about whether the people are fornicators and sinners or whether they will get to heaven or what God thinks about the advisability of the marriage.

JMO I can't remember any passage in the Bible where it says, "thou shalt not write the names of gay people's parents on a piece of papyrus and swear that the information is correct"
Interesting that Kim Davis' mother is the one who signed this document, as she held that position for 37 years before her daughter was elected in 2014. I wonder if Mama Davis also issued the license for her daughter's 3 previous marriages. :facepalm:

Davis served as Rowan County chief deputy clerk, reporting to her mother, Jean W. Bailey, for 24 years.[SUP][12][/SUP] Kentucky law permits elected county officials to employ their family members and to determine their compensation; it is common practice in the state.[SUP][12][/SUP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Davis_(county_clerk)
 
"A jailed Kentucky clerk asserted that marriage licenses issued without her authority Friday to gay couples in Rowan County are void and 'not worth the paper they are written on' because she didn't authorize them, her attorney said."

http://news.yahoo.com/gay-couples-try-wed-defiant-clerk-sits-jail-082850785.html#

Marriage licenses in Kentucky usually have the elected clerk's signature on them; those handed out Friday lacked any signature. The Rowan County attorney and lawyers for the gay couples said they are legal and valid nevertheless. When the judge was asked if the licenses will be considered valid without Davis' authorization, he said it was up to the gay couples to take that chance.

So how come they don't have a system who signs the licences when the elected clerk is unavailable? What happens when she's on a holiday or in hospital? Or in jail?

If she's the only one who can legally sign marriage licences there she needs to resign her butt ASAP. She can't be so grandiotic that her religious beliefs mean that no one in a whole damn county can get their legal marriage licence.
 
This is ridiculous. She was elected to a job with certain responsibilities, including signing marriage licenses.

If she doesn't want to sign the licenses, as she was elected to do, the simple remedy is to resign.

Duh.


2nd DUH, she reminds me of the lame brain who refused to ungo quaintine(sp????) for EBOLI. Anthing to B($)uck the system. I no liking her.:shame:
 
Very good point.

Hobby Lobby is running its own business. But this isn't her own private business in which she's being forced to cater to some activity that she finds immoral.

This woman is supposed to be doing the government's business -- meaning, the people's business. She needs to do it or resign her position. There is no middle ground.

If you will read my posts you will see that I totally agree with you.
 

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