GUILTY KY - Savannah Spurlock, 22, left 'The Other Bar' with 2 men, Richmond, 4 Jan 2019 #7 *Arrest*

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BaileyC said:
I can think of something but can't discuss it now, it's against the rules at this time.

Think I can add this without being in trouble for breaking any rules. They found blood that was not visible and we don't know how much blood was originally there on the closet door.
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Well I guess we will find out more in good time. But if it was something he never intended to happen and didn’t realize it would end in her death and he just “freaked out” and barbarically buried her then I hope he shows remorse and guilt and comes clean for her families sake as well as his own. Moo
 
kc1023 said:
Found this article regarding after searching "while manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he wantonly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to her and thereby caused her death." that was mentioned above.

What Is 'Extreme Indifference' Murder?

sounds like it is worse than "regular" murder to me?
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One of the reasons a Prosecutor may use extreme indifference is because they can't find intent. How would this apply to Savannah's case?
 
Momof4RN said:
I agree wording is strange and leaves open a list of things that could have gone wrong. But i’m Trying to think of what action someone can engage in that causes the death of another that one wouldn’t otherwise know could potentially end in death and I come up with non. Remember her blood was found so it had to have been a rather violent act.
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Well, I guess one scenaro is if he got angry, and hit or pushed her in a rage.

The only other thing I can think of is something similar to Robert Chambers claim that his victim died as a result of "rough sex."

Maybe it can also apply if a victim is dangerously intoxicated and the person takes advantage of the situation. Imo
 
kc1023 said:
Found this article regarding after searching "while manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he wantonly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to her and thereby caused her death." that was mentioned above.

What Is 'Extreme Indifference' Murder?

sounds like it is worse than "regular" murder to me?
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According to that article it is easier for a prosecutor to prove because they don't need to demonstrate a specific intent to kill a person, only conduct that creates a risk of death to the person. Imo
 
MsBetsy said:
Well, I guess one scenaro is if he got angry, and hit or pushed her in a rage.

The only other thing I can think of is something similar to Robert Chambers claim that his victim died as a result of "rough sex."

Maybe it can also apply if a victim is dangerously intoxicated and the person takes advantage of the situation. Imo
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I think these are good scenarios. I was reading how the law applies in different States with 1st degree, 2nd degree, 3rd degree, manslaughter etc. I'm stumped because of Ky only having 1st degree murder. Next is manslaughter. Without intent it seems it would be manslaughter.
 
BaileyC said:
One of the reasons a Prosecutor may use extreme indifference is because they can't find intent. How would this apply to Savannah's case?
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He probably didn't start out the night thinking about murder. When she was killed and her murder /death was covered up that doesn't prove intent but it shows an ability to conceal a crime after the fact. In the 6 months she was hidden evidence that could have proven murder or death caused while committing another crime against her might be gone now. She didn't bury herself and even if we say her death was an accident not seeking medical attention that could have been life saving and possibly watching her die is a crime.
 
Sorry MsBetsy. I added after you liked my comment. I'm kind of goofing up my posting today, thinking of more after I post. May be better for me to just make a new post instead of editing to add.
 
BaileyC said:
Sorry MsBetsy. I added after you liked my comment. I'm kind of goofing up my posting today, thinking of more after I post. May be better for me to just make a new post instead of editing to add.
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Yeah, I went back and read it. I do that all the time too.
I never understand all the criteria for the charges in different states, even after I read them.
Sometimes we need an attorney to explain them. Imo
 
KY is pretty easy on murder in my opinion. It has to be pretty heinous to get life or death sentences. Ragland got 30 years for sniping Trent DiGuiro.
a guy this week got 35 for killing a pregnant woman walking her dog. That is a harsh sentence because she was the unintended victim. Probably during a robbery across the street made it more severe, plus the baby......who knows. Good luck figuring it out. My spouse was on a jury that gave a guy that killed another guy with brass knuckles 5 years. drug deal gone bad. They had the option of reducing murder to manslaughter because he thought his cousins life was in danger. The other guy had a gun and was attacked before he could shoot.
 
Kudzuu said:
KY is pretty easy on murder in my opinion. It has to be pretty heinous to get life or death sentences. Ragland got 30 years for sniping Trent DiGuiro.
a guy this week got 35 for killing a pregnant woman walking her dog. That is a harsh sentence because she was the unintended victim. Probably during a robbery across the street made it more severe, plus the baby......who knows. Good luck figuring it out. My spouse was on a jury that gave a guy that killed another guy with brass knuckles 5 years. drug deal gone bad. They had the option of reducing murder to manslaughter because he thought his cousins life was in danger. The other guy had a gun and was attacked before he could shoot.
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In Ky how much of the sentence do they serve for murder?

I know of someone 26 yrs old and was jumped by another guy. The guy jumped had a knife and stabbed the guy who jumped him, claimed self defense got 2nd degree murder. He was sentenced to 50 yrs in prison but will do 35 yrs, 70% of sentence is required to be served.
 
I really don't know. If you have money for lawyers like Ragland you can fight it. His was a crazy case. He's out now.
In 2007, Ragland was given credit for his time served after pleading guilty to amended charges of manslaughter and set free. I copied this from

Kentucky football player's slaying to be subject of 'Dateline' episode

From Findlaw:

"Manslaughter in Kentucky

It is important to note that the main different between murder and manslaughter is the element of malice. Malice, the intention or desire to cause harm, is an element of murder but isn't needed for manslaughter. So if a killer intended to kill or injure the victim then he will generally be charged with murder, but if not, then the killer will likely be charged with the lesser crime of manslaughter".

I'm not an expert, so take this as my opinion, all of it. If DS didn't intentionally cause SS death, or it can't be proven then the manslaughter charge may be applicable. That is what makes the Ragland case such a head scratcher for logical practical people like me. He intentionally killed TD, by laying in wait and picked him off with a rifle, but got off by taking a reduced charge of manslaughter and pleading guilty.

So in KY it has to be very cut and dried. A good defense attorney would be worth hocking the family jewels I'd say.

But in my observation, which makes it my opinion, when a very public case goes to trial for murder it usually gets the murder charge.

I find it curious that the trial will be in Garrard (pronounced Gare - ed) County, unless I've missed something. Maybe they can find an impartial jury? We are going to see what the stuff that county is made of when this starts.
BBM
 
Kudzuu said:
I really don't know. If you have money for lawyers like Ragland you can fight it. His was a crazy case. He's out now.
In 2007, Ragland was given credit for his time served after pleading guilty to amended charges of manslaughter and set free. I copied this from

Kentucky football player's slaying to be subject of 'Dateline' episode

From Findlaw:

"Manslaughter in Kentucky

It is important to note that the main different between murder and manslaughter is the element of malice. Malice, the intention or desire to cause harm, is an element of murder but isn't needed for manslaughter. So if a killer intended to kill or injure the victim then he will generally be charged with murder, but if not, then the killer will likely be charged with the lesser crime of manslaughter".

I'm not an expert, so take this as my opinion, all of it. If DS didn't intentionally cause SS death, or it can't be proven then the manslaughter charge may be applicable. That is what makes the Ragland case such a head scratcher for logical practical people like me. He intentionally killed TD, by laying in wait and picked him off with a rifle, but got off by taking a reduced charge of manslaughter and pleading guilty.

So in KY it has to be very cut and dried. A good defense attorney would be worth hocking the family jewels I'd say.

But in my observation, which makes it my opinion, when a very public case goes to trial for murder it usually gets the murder charge.

I find it curious that the trial will be in Garrard (pronounced Gare - ed) County, unless I've missed something. Maybe they can find an impartial jury? We are going to see what the stuff that county is made of when this starts.
BBM
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Thanks, interesting info and seems there's really no way to know how this will end.

Something else I am wondering is if this will go to trial? Ninety Five percent of cases today end in plea deals and never go to trial. Why do so many think this case will go to trial? I'm thinking a plea deal. Also I'm wondering if David Sparks will end up with a good Attorney and not the Public Defender he now has. Possibly the change has already happened and we just don't know yet.
 
What is the possibility of her dying from something like a date rape drug given to her by DS.

DS never intended to kill her by giving her the drug, but his actions caused her death.

"while manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he wantonly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to her and thereby caused her death."

The only problem I see with this would be why haven't the other been charged.

JMO
 
Joe Friday said:
What is the possibility of her dying from something like a date rape drug given to her by DS.

DS never intended to kill her by giving her the drug, but his actions caused her death.

"while manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he wantonly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to her and thereby caused her death."

The only problem I see with this would be why haven't the other been charged.

JMO
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Then I’d say he’s guilty. His intent then would still be to cause harm and in his case that harm was death. Moo
 
MsBetsy said:
Well, I guess one scenaro is if he got angry, and hit or pushed her in a rage.

The only other thing I can think of is something similar to Robert Chambers claim that his victim died as a result of "rough sex."

Maybe it can also apply if a victim is dangerously intoxicated and the person takes advantage of the situation. Imo
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Yes all the above were scenarios I thought of. But all of the above come with a risk of causing death that any Normal law abiding citizen who has any regard for life would not do because they know that any of the above can and often do result in death.
Take assault for example. If a parent gets angry and beats their child resulting in their death, aren’t they still guilty of murdering their own child?
Moo
 
Momof4RN said:
Yes all the above were scenarios I thought of. But all of the above come with a risk of causing death that any Normal law abiding citizen who has any regard for life would not do because they know that any of the above can and often do result in death.
Take assault for example. If a parent gets angry and beats their child resulting in their death, aren’t they still guilty of murdering their own child?
Moo
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Well, yes but I guess it depends on the situation and the criteria for manslaughter. In many states that may be considered an accidental death and may be manslaughter, or homicide by child abuse depending on the child's age and whether or not there is a history of abuse.

In this case they are not charging him with manslaughter so there must be a reason.

Maybe it is the degree of "malice" in which the crime was carried out.
Each state has its own laws concerning malice and I don't know what they are in Kentucky.

Maybe at some point he could have done something to help her that would have prevented her death and he did nothing. That would demonstrate a lack of concern for human life, and might explain the murder charge.

It's hard to say without knowing all the details and the specific laws in that state. Imo
 
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