Kyron's doctors appointment

[Calliope]

I think the doctor could have thrown out seizures as a possibility if Terri told him Kyron was overly, noticeably forgetful. I think that's where a medical condition might come into play as opposed to a child simply daydreaming.

When I was in elementary school, I had a huge crush on a boy who had "staring" seizures. It's really weird if you've ever been in the presence of someone who has these types of seizures. It also made his learning very difficult, because he'd seize and miss information, and then come back. It was always difficult to gauge how long he'd been gone, and sometimes he didn't know, either. Anyway, these types of seizures do exist, and unless Kyron was presenting with an emergency condition, a week is a reasonable amount of time to wait for a doctor's appointment, IMHO.

Desiree and Kaine said in a statement that Kyron had difficulty following directions. Kaine's first assumption when Kyron wasn't on the school bus was that he may have become confused about where he was supposed to be picked up. I wonder if there is some validity to Terri's assertions about Kyron's behavior, and Kaine was simply unaware Terri had scheduled a doctor's appointment.

The way he's answered questions, I feel he was aware of the appointment. Equating Kyron's behavior to possible seizure activity? Maybe not. It does fit with what we've been told about Kyron, though.

Easily confirmed, regardless.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I daydreamed all the time when I was in school. No one ever thought I was having seizures. Maybe I don't understand it, but I am unclear on why the giant leap was made by the doctor that this was seizures and not ADHD. Wouldn't the doctor rule out other diagnoses first before going for a more serious one? Or in this day and age, is it more go for the most expensive diagnosis to make more money?

Of course, she could be totally lying about what the doctor said or even that the conversation took place. I'd love to know what the doctor, KH, and DY have to say about this. I'd be furious if I was all three of them right now.

No. An EEG can determine whether seizure activity is taking place. Next step would be an evaluation to determine ADHD (or other LD).

If ADHD is assumed, stimulants (the Rx of choice for ADHD) would exasporate seizures.

 

[Kat010]

Thanks MBLover.

Can you tell us more about the paper work? From what I've seen in assisting with pediatric EEG's, the questions go all the way back to prenatal care, labor and birth history, to the present day including all illness and accidents.

What does "prenatal care" include? Does it mean things like what drugs the mother took, what vitamins, any substances she may have been exposed to, etc? And given current privacy laws, can that prenatal info be added to a form by anyone except the birth mother?

I'm really clueless about what's included these days in "prenatal history." How about stuff like if the mother suffered a fall?

TIA

 

[ami]

I daydreamed all the time when I was in school. No one ever thought I was having seizures. Maybe I don't understand it, but I am unclear on why the giant leap was made by the doctor that this was seizures and not ADHD. Wouldn't the doctor rule out other diagnoses first before going for a more serious one? Or in this day and age, is it more go for the most expensive diagnosis to make more money?

Of course, she could be totally lying about what the doctor said or even that the conversation took place. I'd love to know what the doctor, KH, and DY have to say about this. I'd be furious if I was all three of them right now.

Well, as much as I think Terri is guilty of withholding info, I do understand IF the seizures were real how she could have described the weird behavior to a doctor and the doc could have casually said, "Well it could be anything - it might be absent seizures or just normal spacey kid stuff... .why don't you make an appointment and we'll check him out." --- which could possibly translate to: the doc thinks it might be seizures.

If he was suspected of having petit mal seizures, I can see where they'd want the teacher's input.

I asked on the other thread and not sure if it was answered, but if a kid is suspected of having ADD, would the doc rule out organic causes for their behavior before making the diagnosis? (and again ... I hope so)

When my daughter was having some odd behavior at school they sent an ADD questionnaire home and 3 to her teachers at school to gather information. Turned out it was sensory processing disorder, but their first guess was ADD and they did not first rule out other organic causes like allergies or anything, no.

 

[Aedrys]

No. An EEG can determine whether seizure activity is taking place. Next step would be an evaluation to determine ADHD (or other LD).

If ADHD is assumed, stimulants (the Rx of choice for ADHD) would exasporate seizures.

Thank you. I did not know that. Makes perfect sense, then, why the doctor would want to rule out seizures first. If this is what actually happened, and if Terri just wasn't lying about the whole thing, it makes sense.

 

[Etilema]

Like the talent show, this whole doctor's appointment things is an area where KH became very cagey in interviews. In both cases he said something like "people have said that" or "we have heard information about that" but that they didn't know anything about it before this event. When he does that, I'm not sure if he is just very clueless and unsure, or if it may be an area they are trying to keep quiet about for purposes of the investigation. (Or perhaps LE had kept quiet about it, not letting KH know what they had or had not found.)

Because surely LE would have checked out the doctor's appointment thing, with teachers and with whatever doctor TH claims to have called. Surely she would be able to provide a doctor's name to them and they could follow up. (And they could also check her phone records, of course, to verify that calls were made to doctors when she said they were.)

If TH's story was all matching up and verifiable--yes the doc appt. was set up for the next Friday, the paperwork was given to the teacher and was supposed to be collected before the appointment, other people corroborate that Kyron was having spacey spells--I don't think TH would have been as highly suspected as she seems to have been from the actions of LE, appearing to mainly focus on her from early on.

JMO

 

[gliving]

What does "prenatal care" include? Does it mean things like what drugs the mother took, what vitamins, any substances she may have been exposed to, etc? And given current privacy laws, can that prenatal info be added to a form by anyone except the birth mother?

I'm really clueless about what's included these days in "prenatal history." How about stuff like if the mother suffered a fall?

TIA

I bet we have some OB nurses here who could answer better, but it's everything concerned with the pregnancy course. Both parent's health history, fetal growth, birth weight, delivery type, apgars, etc. Anything that could show fetal distress. And then the baby's developmental milestones and health records, up to present day.

 

[debs]

Seeing how TH is obviously an attention seeker, maybe she was drugging him and possibly baby? Munchausen (sp) Syndrome??? I wouldn't put it past her. I'd love to hear what Kaine and Desiree know about these "episodes".

Except she has sought no attention from day 1, outside of the care and concern of her family who shunned her and her friends.

 

[BringKyronHome]

What does "prenatal care" include? Does it mean things like what drugs the mother took, what vitamins, any substances she may have been exposed to, etc? And given current privacy laws, can that prenatal info be added to a form by anyone except the birth mother?

I'm really clueless about what's included these days in "prenatal history." How about stuff like if the mother suffered a fall?

TIA

Certain conditions that a mom experienced during pregnancy can be deterministic for neurological conditions...in addition labor & delivery can as well. So all of it would be included in the paperwork.

 

[slug]

This seems odd to me as if Kyron had been having these seziures, episodes or whatever they are for 2 weeks i would have phoned the doctors straight away not waited till 2 weeks later then to wait a week for an appointment .
IMO this just seems off if this is true

 

[Calliope]

When my daughter was having some odd behavior at school they sent an ADD questionnaire home and 3 to her teachers at school to gather information. Turned out it was sensory processing disorder, but their first guess was ADD and they did not first rule out other organic causes like allergies or anything, no.

Your doc had a complete history though?

I don't have any experience with ADD. I do know when my grandson was diagnosed autistic, the docs did extensive testing and evaluation to include ruling out organic causes. That's what I was going by ...

 

[PoppyH]

I think premeditated red herring. I went to WebMd.com to get the symptoms of absence seizures and here's what I found:

Typical absence seizures begin abruptly, last 10 to 30 seconds, and resolve themselves without complication. The person simply stops in his tracks (and/or mid-sentence), and enters a staring, trance-like state during which he is unresponsive and unaware of his surroundings. He may make fumbling movements with his hands, and there may also be eyelid fluttering, lip smacking, or chewing motions during the seizure. When the seizure passes, the person returns to normal, with no memory of the event and no lingering effects. Generally speaking, typical absence seizures have no discernible cause.

Now here's what Terri said about Kyron:

“The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks he is having mini seizures and I made an appt. on Thursday for the next Friday to have him checked out.”

Wow, those two are an awfully lot alike, except of course, WebMd is way more detailed. She totally looked this up and then described symptoms to the doctor to make the doctor think Kyron was having absence seizures. And of course she didn't say she thought it, what was important is that the doctor thought Kyron was having seizures.

if she looked up symtoms, LE would find those on her computer JMO

 

[cypress]

Again, might Kyron's extremely poor eyesight be a factor? He's only 7 years old, and the bio parents have asserted he could barely see without his glasses, to the point where he was fearful without them. That is extreme vision loss for a 7 year old, IMHO.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Does TH honestly want us to believe that when she told Kyrons teacher she was taking him to look at exhibits, she somehow heard "taking him to Kitty's dr appt"? I mean, how stupid does she think we are? IF she was going to claim confusion over Kyrons appt date, MAYBE. But not this. Absurd.

Also, what happened to baby's dr appt? They obviously didn't go and since the plan after school was to get ice cream and take Kyron to Desiree, it wouldn't have been for later.

 

[MBLover]

Thanks MBLover.

Can you tell us more about the paper work? From what I've seen in assisting with pediatric EEG's, the questions go all the way back to prenatal care, labor and birth history, to the present day including all illness and accidents.

This has been about 20 years ago...but I'll do my best to explain what I remember.

My son (I'll call him "J"), was having difficulty in reading and writing - turns out he was dyslexic. But because he wasn't understanding/comprehending the school is the one who suggested this testing and everything went through the doctors they used.

None of this was done through my son's pediatrician. He was set up for a physical, EEG and a series of tests for function-motor-speech abilities, IQ, and I don't know what all else.

Because "J" was having stints of daydreaming it was thought that maybe he was having some kind of seizure activity.

Everyone "J" came into contact with through the school had to fill out paperwork on how he was in their class - attentive/non-attentive, participating/non-participating, daydreaming, on task, etc.

My husband and I also had to fill out paperwork about his medical history, our home life, his friends, his activities, etc.

Don't know if this answered your questions or not, let me know if I can try to answer any further questions.

 

[PoppyH]

Except she has sought no attention from day 1, outside of the care and concern of her family who shunned her and her friends.

What care and concern ?Ive seen none of that at all from Terri, other than care and concern for herself and going into CYA mode on day 2, I think we will be hearing of her arrest soon...JMO

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Except she has sought no attention from day 1, outside of the care and concern of her family who shunned her and her friends.

I would have to disagree. I think the "sexting" was quite a bit of attention seeking.

Also, attention doesn't have to be verbal. Looking at her actions and demeanor for the tv cameras was definitely attention seeking, imo.

But, moreso, it's her past I'm talking about.

 

[Aedrys]

Except she has sought no attention from day 1, outside of the care and concern of her family who shunned her and her friends.

Um, have you forgotten about the sexting and batphones? That screams attention to me. She may have been muzzled by Houze, but she's been talking to her friends and sex interests anyway. Sounds like an attention seeker to me if she can't stay off the phone and internet and is looking for sex romps at probably the most inappropriate time to do so.

 

[ami]

Your doc had a complete history though?

I don't have any experience with ADD. I do know when my grandson was diagnosed autistic, the docs did extensive testing and evaluation to include ruling out organic causes. That's what I was going by ...

Yep, the doctor knew her history very well, but I also think some of the manifestations of ADD come across as mild to moderate social and behavioral issues... not necessarily something that would suggest epilepsy or severe allergies, etc.

With autism and with potential seizures, you're right that it seems more imperative to check for something medically serious and treatable right off the bat.

 

[eyes4crime]

I bet we have some OB nurses here who could answer better, but it's everything concerned with the pregnancy course. Both parent's health history, fetal growth, birth weight, delivery type, apgars, etc. Anything that could show fetal distress. And then the baby's developmental milestones and health records, up to present day.

Hi gliving...for a pregnancy history wouldn't Desiree be the one interviewed? If all this about Kyron is true, my guess is that bio mom would know all about it. moo

Also, I bet Kaine and Desiree released Kyron's medical records so they could look for discrepancies in what they were told regarding Kyron and what was documented. Maybe that's where the info about the bee sting came from. They seemed mad about it. all my opinion