Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

[freefallzzzz]

Would you mind providing a ink to the donation site? I would love to read Desiree's message (and surely could make a donation as well)...TIA.

Not sure I can? But if you google the portion of her statement:
"We are currently trying to organize a massive search for the end of August. If we can get enough resources, volunteers, dog teams, and other non-profit agencies to help, we will be able to make this a successful search."


It will come up.

 

[nosysw]

Will do. Thanks!

 

[freefallzzzz]

I am very curious about "where" this search will be. It's all basically private properties and/or very steep terrain up around Skyline School and the radius surrounding it.

 

[nosysw]

Not sure I can? But if you google the portion of her statement:
"We are currently trying to organize a massive search for the end of August. If we can get enough resources, volunteers, dog teams, and other non-profit agencies to help, we will be able to make this a successful search."


It will come up.

This is the link: <modsnip>

I hope it's permissible to put it up here. If not, mods, please remove. TIA...

 

[MizStery]

If DeDe is coming up with information now that she wasn't willing to share in the beginning, it might be that she has since learned new things about her character in the past couple of years that she didn't see before. Hindsight is often 20/20.

:seeya: That is an interesting theory ... and if so, DS is not liking what she is seeing.

I was thinking more along the lines that maybe DS is finally starting to realize that there is "no way out of this" and her only way out is a "deal" ?

In her deposition, DeDe pled the 5th over 100+ times which IMO is very "telling" ... you only plead the 5th for yourself, which is the way I understand it ... you don't plead the 5th on behalf of your BFF - especially when a child is "missing" and your BFF was the LAST person seen with this "missing" child.

Oh, I just wish Kyron would be found !

lease: for Kyron and Desiree and Kaine !

Just to reiterate - the info about Dede appearing before the grand jury comes from Desiree's civil attorney. He just said she went before the GJ "a week or two ago" and he doesn't know what she said.

So we don't know if she plead the fifth over and over like in her deposition given for Desiree's civil suit or if she actually provided the GJ any substantial information.

Obviously I hope she did start talking, but my take is that I'll assume that she plead the fifth again until we find out otherwise.

"A key witness was now cooperating with investigators, according to Young's attorney Elden Rosenthal."

Article & video - July 30, 2013 via KGW

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit--217621[SIZE="2"][/SIZE]031.html


*note in video reporter says the "key witness" has not been named

So many excellent questions from long time posters on DDS.

I think the best information we have is in poster freefalllizzz last post and link from KGW.
<snipped>
She said that Horman continues to stonewall investigators. "I'm still going to bring pressure on Terri. I'm not going away," Young said.
A key witness was now cooperating with investigators, according to Young's attorney Elden Rosenthal.
<snipped>
DeDe Spicher testified before the grand jury for the criminal case within the past two weeks, according to Rosenthal. Spicher was friends with Terri and her whereabouts were in question the day Kyron vanished. She had previously declined to speak with investigators or testify.

A 'new unnamed witness cooperating' is new infomation to me....of course we do not know if the key witness 'cooperating' is DDS but the timing 'looks like it could very well be'.lease:

MOO

 

[Kimster]

:seeya:

The donation site has to be approved by management in order to link: wbsleuth@xmission.com

:tyou:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I've read the story at the site we're not allowed to reference.

If any of what was said is true, I can only conclude MCSO investigated and the leads did not pan out. I don't think there is any grand conspiracy to frame Terri Horman.

Nothing BOC said changed my mind about who I believe is responsible for Kyron's disappearance. May not happen soon, but I think Terri will eventually be charged.

BBM: Exactly ... good points !

JMO ... but MSCO had to investigate anything and everything ...

And when the investigation of "anyone but Terri" led to nothing, they were back at "square one" : Terri !

:moo:

 

[Eileen730]

I am open to the possibility that Terri is not involved, and someone else abducted Kyron. I really wonder how well LE investigated everyone else at Skyline that day.

They had no idea who all was in that school that day!

 

[Eileen730]

Personally I feel the reason Terri had not been arrested is because someone saw him in the school and Terri was not there with him she was already gone. Otherwise she would have been arrested long ago! JMO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/08/judge_signs_civil_no-contact_o.html

Judge signs civil no-contact order that requires Terri Horman to stay away from husband and daughter
By Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on August 01, 2013 at 7:12 PM, updated August 03, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Snipped:
A Multnomah County judge on Thursday signed a civil order that requires Terri Moulton Horman to have no contact with her estranged husband and their 4-year-old daughter as divorce proceedings resume.

Judge Henry Kantor signed the civil no-contact order Thursday as Kaine Horman dismissed the Family Abuse Prevention Act restraining order he had just renewed for one year against his estranged wife.

The new order says Kaine Horman is awarded exclusive use of the home on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road in Portland, and Terri Horman can't come within 150 feet of the house, Kaine Horman's job at Intel Corp. in Hillsboro, or his gym in Beaverton.

Terri Horman is also required to stay away from the Skyline School where their missing son Kyron Horman had attended. He was last seen there June 4, 2010.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.co.jackson.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=3349&Print=True

Snipped:
When will the no contact condition be lifted?

The following are guidelines to be applied on a case-by-case basis and may not be applicable on all cases:

Telephone Contact: the offender is required to attend five (5) DAAP groups.

Person to Person Contact: offender is required to attend eight (8) DAAP groups and submit to polygraph testing, at their own expense, to determine compliance to conditions. The supervising officer will contact the DAAP provider for a progress report.

Removal of No Contact Condition: the offender is required to attend eight (8) DAAP groups and submit to polygraph testing, at their own expense, to determine compliance to conditions. The supervising officer will contact the DAAP provider for a progress report.

Victim and the offender must both request the no contact condition be lifted.

Victim required to attend INOKA "It's Not OK Anymore" group or alternative class and provide proof of completion to supervising officer.

Victim will meet with the supervising officer who will determine level of contact allowed or if no contact condition will be removed.

Required forms will be created and the victim will be advised they can contact the supervising officer anytime they have concerns that the no contact condition can be reactivated.

The supervising officer, at their own discretion, may reinstate the no contact condition at anytime during supervision.

What is the difference between a No Contact Order and a Restraining Order?

No Contact Order: is a criminal protective order imposed by the courts as a term of release post-arrest or as a condition of probation. A no contact order is valid only in Oregon. It can be modified by a judge pre-sentencing with a hearing petitioned by the victim after completion of a petitioner&#8217;s class. Post-sentencing, it remains in effect for the duration of probation and can be modified at discretion of the probation officer.

Restraining Order: is a civil protective order petitioned for by the victim where no report or arrest is required. A restraining order is serviceable in all 50 states. It remains in effect for one year from the date it is granted and may be renewed in court, without a new offense, if the judge determines victim is currently in imminent danger of bodily harm by the aggressor. The restraining order can be modified or removed within 30 days of being granted with a hearing petitioned by the victim or aggressor, after the victim completes required class.

 

[ladonna]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/08/judge_signs_civil_no-contact_o.html

Judge signs civil no-contact order that requires Terri Horman to stay away from husband and daughter
By Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on August 01, 2013 at 7:12 PM, updated August 03, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Snipped:
A Multnomah County judge on Thursday signed a civil order that requires Terri Moulton Horman to have no contact with her estranged husband and their 4-year-old daughter as divorce proceedings resume.

Judge Henry Kantor signed the civil no-contact order Thursday as Kaine Horman dismissed the Family Abuse Prevention Act restraining order he had just renewed for one year against his estranged wife.

The new order says Kaine Horman is awarded exclusive use of the home on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road in Portland, and Terri Horman can't come within 150 feet of the house, Kaine Horman's job at Intel Corp. in Hillsboro, or his gym in Beaverton.

Terri Horman is also required to stay away from the Skyline School where their missing son Kyron Horman had attended. He was last seen there June 4, 2010.

First of all, just to keep it straight, it is a Civil Order of Restraint that is directed at both parties, Kaine and Terri...Neither can harrass, menence, or treathen the other.

Maxine, imo, has never been known to report the entire proceedings.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/civil%20case%20aug%2012.pdf

 

[keyleigh]

That doesn't have Kaine's name on it? It's Desiree's restraining order.

 

[ladonna]

That doesn't have Kaine's name on it? It's Desiree's restraining order.

Sorry, I posted the wrong documents....No contact order is in this batch.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/RO and Divorce Aug 12.pdf

 

[keyleigh]

Thanks

 

[ami]

I think a major problem with this case is that Terri quickly emerged as LE's primary focus, and they never adequately investigated other possibilities, IMHO. There was so much time, money, press, LE ego, etc. invested in Terri being guilty that she was never going to be allowed to be not guilty.

I think much of that mindset remains.

Here we are, three years later, and Desiree dropped her civil suit because of the ongoing criminal investigation. What investigation? Sure, Dede finally talked, but if her testimony had resulted in anything probative or corroborative in terms of Terri's guilt, then Terri would've been arrested, IMHO.

At some point, just for sake of argument, it might be worth meaningfully investigating others. The worst that could happen is nothing, and that's the best that they've had for three years.

They had no idea who all was in that school that day!

When the investigation was in the "hot case" stages, LE had reams and reams of information, interviews, charts, diagrams of the parking lot and positions of cars, lines of sight, time of entry and exit and names of each person associated with specific cars, children, classrooms and various points of entry - it was all in their press briefings, and that was just the info they were able to reveal without hindering the investigation.

They had lists of sex offenders, school landscapers and their automobiles, they responded to questions of phone-in tips from the tip line, had searches that began with the supposition that Kyron left school on foot and got lost or injured (those early searches when we all held out hope he'd be found with an injury near the school).

I remember the live press briefing where they had a giant diagram of the school and parking lot and said they only had a few cars left that they hadn't identified (later they said they finally identified all of them).

And again, this is just the small part of the investigation that made it into the live briefings, where we were able to hear direct statements from LE that weren't filtered and subject to misinterpretation in the press.

I have no idea if TH is involved but it never made much sense to me. He was going away that very day as well as for much of the summer. Maybe he would have convinced his Mom to take action for custody. Lots of things could have changed, she did not need to kill him or "sell" him. I do think she may have at least made a comment regarding having Kaine killed, whether serious or not. She would not be the first to do that, I'm sure, or to have an affair, if she was. I just never saw a single piece of evidence that linked her to doing anything to Kyron on that day.

Yeah, but that's thinking like a sane person. In the sane world, there is never a "reason" to kill or kidnap or sell a child. But people with mental problems don't think rationally about whether they "need" to kill/kidnap/sell a child to solve their problems. I can't imagine a mentally ill person thinking: "..well, I don't really need to get rid of him because he's about to take a camping trip, and that will get him out of my hair for a few weeks. I'll kill him when he gets back and starts bugging me again." Just like Scott Peterson didn't "need" to kill Laci as he could much more easily have divorced her. Mentally ill people don't act based on rational forward thinking and reasoning.

 

[Donjeta]

First of all, just to keep it straight, it is a Civil Order of Restraint that is directed at both parties, Kaine and Terri...Neither can harrass, menence, or treathen the other.

Maxine, imo, has never been known to report the entire proceedings.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/civil%20case%20aug%2012.pdf

I thought that's just how those things are normally worded? There is no point ordering person A to keep away from person B to protect person B and no way to enforce the order if person B who asked for the protection keeps contacting A nevertheless. And people aren't generally supposed to harass, menace, or threaten each other regardless of whether there is a paper saying so or not.

The petitiner is still Kane and the respondent is still Terri and the specific locations that are mentioned in the order are those that Terri is not supposed to go to to protect Kaine and the daughter so I would say that it's directed at Terri.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think it must be very unusual for someone to go on trial for the murder of a child without a body. I know it has happened with the murder of adults, but I can't think of a case involving a child. Maybe if they found a lot of blood from the child that showed there was no way they could still be alive.

 

[Donjeta]

Two recent cases come to mind.
Jerice Hunter has been charged for the murder of her daughter Jhessye Shockley without a body (but the trial hasn't started yet, afaik).
D'Andre Lane was convicted for murder in the disappearance of his daughter Bianca Jones without a body.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Two recent cases come to mind.
Jerice Hunter has been charged for the murder of her daughter Jhessye Shockley without a body (but the trial hasn't started yet, afaik).
D'Andre Lane was convicted for murder in the disappearance of his daughter Bianca Jones without a body.

So is it just a coincidence that the two people who are being charged with the murder of a child without a body are both black, while we have plenty of white people who probably killed their kid too and are walking around free? Not to say that Jerice and D'Andre shouldn't be charged, but makes you wonder if LE thinks they will have a harder time getting a conviction against a middle-class white woman.