LA LA - Belle Chasse, WhtMale 16-17, UP88342, hanged, suicide note, Feb'75 #2

[Courtaine]

There are a lot of "Savoie/Savoy", as an example.

Also, sorry I did not get to Bayard Cousins yet. Will make an effort this evening. We have an obit for one or both parents here as well somewhere, right?

We do the mother mentions him, I speak under correction but I think the father's does too. Is there anyway a moderator can create a thread linked to this with only pictures and links on it?

 

[Courtaine]

Yes I do remember reading that, but I guess it was never traced (can you trace a dry cleaning number?)
It would be interesting to know what hotels we're in the area, I mean there were barely any houses so I can imagine a hotel. I suppose it was probably in Belle Chasse which is the closest big town.
I've always found the bedsheet a weird choice if I'm honest. If I had been thinking of suicide for a year I'd probably have found the time to go and buy a rope. A sheet seems quite spur of the moment as something you just had handy at the time. And also quite an ineffectual noose.

And then the planning to take a bottle to put the note in.... Does not add up. In Louisiana there's a law that you cannot wear a hat or mask or something related to the KKK. At Mardi Gras people wear very weird things and that's the only day that the KKK rule is abandoned.

But Valentines day was 3 days after Mardi Gras. I don't know if we're dismissing the sheet as only something from an inn, because for a planner that's just one more clue in his death, the day, the place, the tree, the sheet. It's all planned.

 

[Courtaine]

I'm not sold on Wallace; in the years I've been on the UID forum here, I've seen a number of can't-miss matches that turned out to be just coincidentally close but the the one.

Earl Joggerst intrigues me. I think somebody suggested him early in this thread.

5401DMMO - Earl Anthony Joggerst

He has a hyper pigmentation mark on his sternum. Guess they would have found that. I see why you like him, the middle picture. I think he's included in the Romulus list.

 

[Courtaine]

Re: the dry cleaning number

This is interesting in and of itself. We have a 16-17 year-old boy, who is quite possibly a runaway or missing for some length of time. We know for whatever reason, he is wearing mismatched socks, which could be any reason, yet his pants went to the cleaner? I understand some fabrics require, or strongly prefer this vs just throwing them in a machine at a laundromat, but I still find it curious.

What kind of 16 year-old boy sends his clothes out to be dry cleaned? Did these pants belong to someone else? Maybe all of the clothing was from someone else?

No idea how we would ever prove or disprove, but wondering if everything he had on and that sheet was lifted from someplace?

The kind that was working at the laundromat and was tasked to deliver clothes to the owner that had been dry cleaned? Upon delivery the owner gives back the ticket?

 

[Courtaine]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the age estimate being between 16-17 yrs old, that's pretty specific and the age estimates are usually out by a couple of years, was it made by an ME? I forget.

I don't thinks Wallace said the UID hair was "dark" brown did she? Just that the hair seemed to dark for Charlie, but she also seemed to note that it could have been because the body was so pale.

I would say dark blonde hair could also pass for light brown, but as far as I know the body was just described as having brown hair, and not the shade of brown.

I think it's worth noting that the article states that the detective had calls from lots of parents of missing boys, but the only description the detective thought was a good enough match to invite them to view the body, including the matching dentals and scar inside the mouth, was of Charlie Wallace.

There's a written list of people who came to see the body. I'd say about 14, the image is in thread 1

 

[Ciriii57]

Can we look up bus routes for 1975 somehow? It would be nice to see a schedule of arrivals and the cities they originated in.

From experience with another case, although it might be possible to get the bus schedule, it would be futile because there is no way to know what connections this person took. Even if a bus passed through that originated in ...say Atlanta...theres no way to know if someone had begun their journey in...say Minneapolis. The connections for Greyhound buses were vast and varied.

I would like to know what hotels, guesthouses or other such places were available in the area. But since New Orleans is so close I imagine there were hundreds.

 

[Ciriii57]

Dead end on the bed sheet, the red roof inn (I think) was closest, was a chain in 1975, all sourced from one producer.

Dead end on the laundry ticket too.

Was it confirmed that the sheet came from the Red Roof Inn? Was this laundry mark from the laundry they used? I'm very sorry if this has been discussed, I don't remember everything lol

 

[Beekarina]

He has a hyper pigmentation mark on his sternum. Guess they would have found that. I see why you like him, the middle picture. I think he's included in the Romulus list.

To clarify the patch of skin "Jay" Joggerst has is hypopigmented, so paler. Mrs. Wallace remarked on how pale the BCJD remains were overall, which I think makes sense. I'm also not sure we know how large this mark was, only that it was arrow shaped.

Being paler, if the mark was small, IF he was BCJD, perhaps it was overlooked?

 

[Ciriii57]

To clarify the patch of skin "Jay" Joggerst has is hypopigmented, so paler. Mrs. Wallace remarked on how pale the BCJD remains were overall, which I think makes sense. I'm also not sure we know how large this mark was, only that it was arrow shaped.

Being paler, if the mark was small, IF he was BCJD, perhaps it was overlooked?

Even if the pigmentation was missed, which I agree is quite possible, he still had the wrong eye colour. If it was the difference between brown and Hazel I'd dimsiss it, but there's no confusion between brown and blue.
BCJD hadn't been dead long enough for his eye colour to degrade, but even if it had the eyes would have become lighter (greyish) not darker. Unless Joggersts eye colour is misreported then I think its a rule out.

 

[Beekarina]

Sorry for serial posts, the coffee needs to kick in....

To add to the hypopigmented arrow shaped mark Earl "jay" Joggerst has, might this be the type of thing more visible in the summer months when guys might be out swimming and things without a shirt? He has brown hair, and looks like he might tan a bit, so then with a bit of a tan, that type of mark would stand out. In February, after being under a shirt for months? Maybe not as much.

 

[Beekarina]

I agree the eye color is a big tick in the "No" column for me.

I originally suggested Joggerst though because I found so many other things compelling about him, a bit the way many of you feel towards Wallace or Cousins.

Overall though? The more I dive into this, I believe BCJD is someone we have not discussed yet. I think if this is ever solved, it is going to be like a Walker County Jane Doe/Sherry Jarvis type of missing case. JMO!

 

[Ciriii57]

I agree the eye color is a big tick in the "No" column for me.

I originally suggested Joggerst though because I found so many other things compelling about him, a bit the way many of you feel towards Wallace or Cousins.

Overall though? The more I dive into this, I believe BCJD is someone we have not discussed yet. I think if this is ever solved, it is going to be like a Walker County Jane Doe/Sherry Jarvis type of missing case. JMO!

Perhaps the only way for us to exclude persons is for us to find them lol we could locate Cousins, Wallace, Joggerst we could exclude them...if only it were that simple!!

 

[Ciriii57]

There's a written list of people who came to see the body. I'd say about 14, the image is in thread 1

I remember that and must go and have a look. Did someone ever check it to see who on the list was still a missing person? I'm sure they must have done....

 

[Courtaine]

I think it would depend on if this was a planned suicide or not. This is just my opinion from my own attempts. I’ve attempted three times without planning, impulsive attempts that were in my immediate area. The one planned attempt was actually out of the way, two states away from my main family. That was actually my hanging attempt, chosen because it was isolated and I thought no one would find me. We’ll never know for certain, but maybe BCJD thought the same.

I have autism, as does my sister. I was pretty outgoing as a baby, but my sister was withdrawn per our mother. She didn’t cry a lot, was a late speaker, didn’t make friends easy. Maybe that is what he meant? Some people with autism show signs as a baby.

Please choose to live next time you may feel suicidal, please reach out, there are people willing to carry you.

Thanks for sharing and pointing out what a withdrawn baby would be like. He must have heard it from his mother and/or father. "an unpleasant withdrawn person" why label himself as unpleasant?

There really is so much this boy/man does to obsufcate his own death, intentionally or not that the result is there is no clear person here that stands out above all others. There are several boys or young men and they all could be our John and they all could not.

 

[Courtaine]

Perhaps the only way for us to exclude persons is for us to find them lol we could locate Cousins, Wallace, Joggerst we could exclude them...if only it were that simple!!

Yes, but eye colour also changes after death.

 

[Courtaine]

I remember that and must go and have a look. Did someone ever check it to see who on the list was still a missing person? I'm sure they must have done....

I'm not sure and I'm commenting from memory here, there were a lot of surnames that were unfamiliar to me, as in nobody else on the list makes our list.

 

[Courtaine]

SBM.

IED, or intermittent explosive disorder. I can’t talk about the specifics of it in the 1970s since I wasn’t around, but I can get some information. If he did have it, I’m 90% certain his family would have known. The 10% of uncertainty stems from the severity of it if he had it. I have it, but my rages tend to be verbal so unless I tell someone, people don’t tend to think of me having it. My youngest brother is physically violent and can’t hide it. Our middle brother is a bit of both, verbal and physical. It would have been diagnosed in 1975 under the name passive aggressive personality type (aggressive type). He could have been under the care of a doctor, which could explain the change my personality attitude. Cognitive behavioral therapy is the most common treatment for it nowadays, but I believe France still uses antipsychotics for treatment. If he was on any medicines, and this is probably not 100% correct without more research, he was probably on tricyclic antidepressants or antipsychotic meds. Side effects of the antidepressants would have been the common ones of heart rate changes, dry mouth, nausea, but also confusion, emotional blunting, hallucinations if overdosed. Antidepressants also have a “black box” warning, basically a warning that stopping it without warning and/or waning can increase the risk of suicidal behaviors. Antipsychotic side effects tend to vary based on the actual drug, but a large number of them also include an increased risk of suicidal ideation.



For the most part I am, 6 years without an attempt. I still have the thought every couple of months, but therapy helps.

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That's from the dsm 2 which was written in the 60s if I read right. Seems they lumped everything that could be personality disorder into one big lump and added manic depressive to it.

So basically someone with autism or IED would not have even made the passive aggressive grade, they would be treated as psychopathic and depressed, another obsufacting detail.

I'm trying to think, i dont think of myself as unpleasant (although I'm sure there are people who think I am) , and I'm pretty insecure, but I wouldn't call myself that. I can't think of a disorder where one hates himself enough to exterminate himself.

The LGBT angle was brought up earlier in thread 1, i think that's a dead end too. I only mention it because the wiki page mentions it and homosexuality was taken out of the dsm as a disorder before 1975. And even if he was homosexual I still wouldn't refer to him as unpleasant, if i was a lesbian I wouldn't think I was unpleasant.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree excuse the pun, but when do you have what that makes you hate yourself?

Anti social or back then psychopath would be the only reason I can think of and then to the exclusion of narcissism (rare) and a high level of self awareness.

 

[Courtaine]

I agree, I would say it hints at something else too. I don't think was a sexuality thing. Again, I am totally unqualified to answer this at all but the impression I get is that BCJD had feelings or thoughts that he knew were dangerous to others and therefore decided to "diffuse the bomb" by ending his life. Whatever it was he seems to have felt that treatment would have left him "limping through life" or spending "years under care".
There is always the chance that he had already acted on his impulses and was ashamed.

Oh damn, i never thought of that.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

can't think of a disorder where one hates himself enough to exterminate himself.

IMO severe depression checks a lot of boxes. It can definitely cause anger, lack of impulse control, self-hatred, negativity, a distorted view of oneself, difficulty connecting with others, and (of course and sadly) suicide...

 

[Courtaine]

To clarify the patch of skin "Jay" Joggerst has is hypopigmented, so paler. Mrs. Wallace remarked on how pale the BCJD remains were overall, which I think makes sense. I'm also not sure we know how large this mark was, only that it was arrow shaped.

Being paler, if the mark was small, IF he was BCJD, perhaps it was overlooked?

Apops