GUILTY LA - Jaren Lockhart, 22, New Orleans, 5 June 2012 - #5

[SmoothOperator]

Exactly! They were broke, which makes the story about the two offering hundreds of dollars to dancers for a "little treat" so suspicious. I don't want to call anyone a liar, but I'd like to know what MAS really told the dancer she approached on stage. If it's true MAS offered her money, whose money was it? I don't blame her for not mentioning any other names to a reporter. I only pray she's been upfront with LE. So when she turned them down, they asked Jaren, and possibly one other dancer before her who also refused. I'm pretty sure JL would have known those two didn't have $500 or $700 to throw around. So why did she leave with them, and even ask to get off early to do so? Who did she think would be paying for her time? Who??

Which it is exactly this that is the issue IMO that is most indicative of absolute premeditation ..if you are the person propositioning individuals for an activity which will yield payment.. yet you full well know that you do not have the money to pay that which you are promising. Well.. IMO that is much more likely to be that there was never any intention to pay what you are promising and that there is a totally different ulterior motive for why they are propositioning the girls.. as in they will change up the offer as much as necessary to get one of the girls to agree.. with MAS/TS full well knowing they will not ever follow through with any of what is promised...certainly not paying monetarily.. therefore if they knew they didn't have the money to pay, yet these girls absolutely know these two and would absolutely make known that these two had screwed them over...

These two had no worries of that IMO due to the fact that they knew the victim would never live to tell.. again IMO indicating a high level of premeditation...

Some may say that if premeditated these two would have done a better job of covering their tracks.. especially not being caught on surveillance as the last to be with the victim.. and my answer to that is that save the issue of Jaren's body parts quickly surfacing there certainly appears to be no other major damning evidence having been found.. namely the site of the murder and dismemberment .. LE says those locations have yet to have been found.. IMO that's due to some level of pre planning.. premeditation ..

If they strongly felt that Jaren's body parts were successfully disposed of and would not surface.. if that had actually happened that way we would not even have a victim.. a homicide case.. we would merely have a missing persons case.. that as most locals know due to the fact that Jaren was a dancer her being merely a missing person would not at all take a high priority and it certainly would not have MAS/TS incarcerated.. because there'd be no Mississippi LE involved(who appear to be who took the case very seriously with her remains on MS beach) ...no FBI involvement..no pressure from any outsideLE agencies..nor media..

Without Jaren's remains having washed ashore MAS/TS are not even suspects.. they are going about their daily lives having completely gotten away with murder.. meanwhile Jaren would just be a Bourbon Street dancer that LE would assume had taken off.. no news media.. no case period..

So you see their premeditation would have worked perfectly.. they would've gotten away with murder.. they had zero idea her remains would wash ashore...especially not within mere hours of their having murdered her.. i truly believe this was premeditated and that there are only two people involved in this murder.. the two that are currently incarcerated..

Think about it.. what I'm saying makes sense.. of course IMO it does..

 

[SwampMama]

Here my take on the "friendship" between MAS and Jaren.

I mean no disrespect to "Involved" and what they have said. They are only reporting what they have been told and know and have surmised from that, just as I am. I could be wrong as well. Maybe the truth is somewhere between.

We have not heard anything from LE or from Jaren's family about MAS and Jaren being close friends. Were they acquaintances based up working in the quarter? Sure, Jaren probably knew hundreds of people in the scope of her employment. As you can see, she has many friends and people who loved her.

But the claim that they were close friends or that Jaren had often been to the house in Kenner just doesn't fly with me. This info comes from someone who is friends with MAS's mom. So the information about MAS and Jaren being friends likely came from MAS, to her mom and then to the Involved.

And lets be honest. MAS is a known liar who embellishes story for her benefit or for attention. I'm still not believing that she and Addie were such close friends either. MAS also claimed that her semi famous uncle was her brother, no doubt to bring attention to herself.

Then there is distinct possibility that MAS is covering her butt in case something of Jaren's is found in her house. Jaren's purse and her belongings were never found and maybe they weren't tossed in the water. So they have to be somewhere.

Or it could be that MAS said they were close friends to her mom to give her a reason to mention Jaren's story in the news. Remember the married couple who said MAS and TS stayed with them and dyed their hair there? MAS was talking about Jaren then. But did she tell the married couple that she and Jaren were such close friends? Did MAS mention to ANYONE that she was the last person that Jaren was seen alive with? No, she didn't!!!!

If I had a friend who was murdered (or disappeared) and I was the last one to see her, I would be saying "Oh my gosh, I just saw her right before she disappeared. If only i had made her stay with me, if only I had..... (fill in blank here to find a way that you could have somehow prevented such a tragedy from happening). Did MAS say this to anyone? Nope, not that we have heard.

No one who is close to Jaren has come forward to say that MAS was a good friend of Jaren's. If Jaren had been to MAS's house before, I would think that Jaren's fiance would have been there as well with her. But we haven't heard that.

If Jaren and MAS were such good friends then why wasn't anyone able to identify her from the club? Why didn't the people who saw Jaren with her that night say "oh, she left with her friend MAS" ? MAS had pink hair at the time. That makes her stand out a bit. Why couldn't anyone identify her before the video was released?

So I just have a hard time believing that they were close friends. Now, on to my next point of interest.

I have said that I do not believe that the Kenner house is the crime scene BUT it actually might have been a plausible spot because of where it is located. Perhaps Jaren was there that night but killed elsewhere.

Although it is in a residential neighborhood, it is an area where its close proximity to the airport makes it undesirable. The noise from the planes is deafening and the planes can take off frequently. The runway goes almost right over that neighborhood. I know firsthand from living about 4 blocks from MAS's house that the noise is a pain in the butt. The airport bought out some of the area and other parts there between her house and the airport were not developed. Google map can show you how sparsely populated it is behind her house. But MAS's house is NOT where Google maps says that 2029 Connecticut is. It is actually further down the street in the middle of those 3 houses which are the only houses on that side of the street in that block, with the lrge open area behind them.

In fact if you look at the Google map of her house from the air, you will see that there are no houses behind her. Her area behind her back yard is a big open, grown over field with trees. It is entirely possible that MAS and TS could have completely eluded detection by neighbors by going thru this back field there are even trees to help cover then from sight as well as tall wooden fences on either side so the neighbors would not be able to see in the yard.

I do not know if the back of MAS's yard has a fence across the back of it but usually such a fence would have a gate when it opens to an open field. I may have to go and look, just to satisfy my curiosity.

But again, I don't think it was the crime scene, based upon how quickly it was searched, but I could be wrong. Maybe they were there that night or maybe the house contains some belongings of Jaren. That remains to be revealed.

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...=us&ei=zr8FUPefGcHg2gXnxeG2BQ&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

Hopefully this map is visible to you and can illustrate what I am saying. MAS's house is the house where you see only three house together and no other on that side of the street. Her house is the one that is located right where the word "Ave" of the words "Connecticut Ave" is written on the map.

So it is entirely plausible that the Kenner house could have been gone to with no one seeing them at all,

So these are some things that I have been wanting to say. I haven't said a lot but when I finally do, its hard to stop. Sorry it is such a long post.

 

[Vann]

Can anybody tell me about the Garfield Ladner Memorial Pier in Waveland, MS.
It is my understanding that is one of the longest piers on the gulf coast, with a
length of 12,000 feet. It has 24 hour lighted security, but does it have cameras?

This bridge is also west of Bay St Louis. I’m sure between the hours of 3:30am
to 4:30am this bridge is deserted. Could it be possible? I would like to know. Thanks!

That bridge is west of bay oaks dr in bay st Louis. And yes it is secluded that time of night/morning. It use to be manned meaning someone would collect a small fee from people using the pier. About a year ago however, the city of Waveland went bankrupt and the pier has been unmanned. It was about 3 months ago but they might have somebody out there now.
There are lights out there but I don't think there are cameras.

 

[Clodumbo]

That bridge is west of bay oaks dr in bay st Louis. And yes it is secluded that time of night/morning. It use to be manned meaning someone would collect a small fee from people using the pier. About a year ago however, the city of Waveland went bankrupt and the pier has been unmanned. It was about 3 months ago but they might have somebody out there now.
There are lights out there but I don't think there are cameras.

Thanks Vann,

I found this article about the Garfield Ladner Memorial Pier dated April 2012.

From the Sea Coast Echo in Bay St Louis:
http://12.68.233.230/40/article_5845.shtml

This tells me that this pier probably does not have a security guard or surveillance
cameras, since this bridge is caught up in litigation. This would be a perfect location
to commit such a heinous and brutal crime. Especially if there was some inclement
weather during that time.

The area around this pier looks very desolate, but I’m not sure how much has been
built back since Hurricane Katrina. I need more details please.

Is there a possible road trip for me? Unless a local person in that area can provide
more details for me. I have a bad feeling that this could have been the place.

I totally agree with you. We definitely need an Oceanographer here in this forum.

:detective:

 

[Jessen]

Some may say that if premeditated these two would have done a better job of covering their tracks.. especially not being caught on surveillance as the last to be with the victim.. and my answer to that is that save the issue of Jaren's body parts quickly surfacing there certainly appears to be no other major damning evidence having been found.. namely the site of the murder and dismemberment .. LE says those locations have yet to have been found.. IMO that's due to some level of pre planning.. premeditation ..

If they strongly felt that Jaren's body parts were successfully disposed of and would not surface.. if that had actually happened that way we would not even have a victim.. a homicide case..Without Jaren's remains having washed ashore MAS/TS are not even suspects.. they are going about their daily lives having completely gotten away with murder.. meanwhile Jaren would just be a Bourbon Street dancer that LE would assume had taken off.. no news media.. no case period..

This makes total sense to me. It was why I was curious about other body parts being discovered. Perhaps they haven't yet because a fraction of their actions did go according to plan...the parts were washed out into the Gulf or hidden somewhere and not yet discovered....like they thought would happen. I'm not too familiar with wind or tide patterns and doesn't seem like they were too keen on this either. Thank God things did surface.


Question about the surveillance: is it obvious there are cameras in the clubs and on the streets? Although, even if you can't see them, a local in the bar scene would know this.

I am in Georgia btw, which is why I do not know some of this stuff.

 

[2LuckyDogs]

Exactly! They were broke, which makes the story about the two offering hundreds of dollars to dancers for a "little treat" so suspicious. I don't want to call anyone a liar, but I'd like to know what MAS really told the dancer she approached on stage. If it's true MAS offered her money, whose money was it? I don't blame her for not mentioning any other names to a reporter. I only pray she's been upfront with LE. So when she turned them down, they asked Jaren, and possibly one other dancer before her who also refused. I'm pretty sure JL would have known those two didn't have $500 or $700 to throw around. So why did she leave with them, and even ask to get off early to do so? Who did she think would be paying for her time? Who??

I just ran across this article that briefly mentions court documents showing TS last employment in April at My Bar 635 Bourbon and earned 600/month. So if this is accurate he would NOT have a spare $700 for his "treat"

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/06/persons_of_interest_in_torso_c.html

 

[Vann]

Thanks Vann,

I found this article about the Garfield Ladner Memorial Pier dated April 2012.

From the Sea Coast Echo in Bay St Louis:
http://12.68.233.230/40/article_5845.shtml

This tells me that this pier probably does not have a security guard or surveillance
cameras, since this bridge is caught up in litigation. This would be a perfect location
to commit such a heinous and brutal crime. Especially if there was some inclement
weather during that time.

The area around this pier looks very desolate, but I’m not sure how much has been
built back since Hurricane Katrina. I need more details please.

Is there a possible road trip for me? Unless a local person in that area can provide
more details for me. I have a bad feeling that this could have been the place.

I totally agree with you. We definitely need an Oceanographer here in this forum.

:detective:

Road trip? Where are you coming from? You mention more info. Is there something I can do on my end that would help you since I am local?

 

[gngr~snap]

I just ran across this article that briefly mentions court documents showing TS last employment in April at My Bar 635 Bourbon and earned 600/month. So if this is accurate he would NOT have a spare $700 for his "treat"

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/06/persons_of_interest_in_torso_c.html

Dumb thought but maybe some guy was willing to pay say $2000.00
for an escort. TS and MAS would take 650 each and leave Jaren with 700.

Or maybe someguy said he'd give them $700 for a girl...

O/t but the PI for Mickey Shunick said people from NOLA are calling him with tips about a place that was never rebuilt after Katrina? In relation to Brandon Lavergne???

Sounds like they may have seen him "around" and maybe think he could be realted to "stuff"

Heck he worked 14 on 14 off! I bet he knew a lot of "people" in that area!
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/arti...ey-Shunick?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

"Tips from New Orleanians have poured in since news broke about Lavergne seeking medical treatment for stab wounds in New Orleans, only 13 hours after Shunick's disappearance." (page 2)

 

[bessie]

This makes total sense to me. It was why I was curious about other body parts being discovered. Perhaps they haven't yet because a fraction of their actions did go according to plan...the parts were washed out into the Gulf or hidden somewhere and not yet discovered....like they thought would happen. I'm not too familiar with wind or tide patterns and doesn't seem like they were too keen on this either. Thank God things did surface.


Question about the surveillance: is it obvious there are cameras in the clubs and on the streets? Although, even if you can't see them, a local in the bar scene would know this.

I am in Georgia btw, which is why I do not know some of this stuff.

I would think that anyone who works or spends time in the Quarter is aware of the cameras in the clubs and on the street. TS worked as a bouncer at a couple of the clubs, so he definitely knew about the surveillance cameras.

:welcome5:
​

 

[Ladylub]

I keep coming to this thread today determined to read but my brain is not working and I have to keep reading over and over again. I read and completely forget what I had just read. Maybe tomorrow my brain will work better for me. Guess I better call it a night.

 

[Okay then]

Dumb thought but maybe some guy was willing to pay say $2000.00
for an escort. TS and MAS would take 650 each and leave Jaren with 700.

Or maybe someguy said he'd give them $700 for a girl...

O/t but the PI for Mickey Shunick said people from NOLA are calling him with tips about a place that was never rebuilt after Katrina? In relation to Brandon Lavergne???

Sounds like they may have seen him "around" and maybe think he could be realted to "stuff"

Heck he worked 14 on 14 off! I bet he knew a lot of "people" in that area!
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/arti...ey-Shunick?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

"Tips from New Orleanians have poured in since news broke about Lavergne seeking medical treatment for stab wounds in New Orleans, only 13 hours after Shunick's disappearance." (page 2)

Not a dumb thought. imo However, you would think TS and MS would be talking about more than, "the weather" since BL is locked up. Maybe they are?

ETA: and don't get me started on bouncers and ID cards...

 

[Vann]

Newbie here who has been following the story with great interest since I first learned about it. Prayers to Jaren's family and friends.

Question: have Jaren's arms and hands been recovered? Were they recovered with the torso? If they haven't been found, is it possible they are still under water (under decomposed and float to the surface like 2luckydogs said), swept out into the middle of the Gulf (which is perhaps what the killers thought would happen) or can they still be making their way to the coast, perhaps even the Florida coast? Thank you in advance.

:wagon: Jessen

 

[bessie]

Which it is exactly this that is the issue IMO that is most indicative of absolute premeditation ..if you are the person propositioning individuals for an activity which will yield payment.. yet you full well know that you do not have the money to pay that which you are promising. Well.. IMO that is much more likely to be that there was never any intention to pay what you are promising and that there is a totally different ulterior motive for why they are propositioning the girls.. as in they will change up the offer as much as necessary to get one of the girls to agree.. with MAS/TS full well knowing they will not ever follow through with any of what is promised...certainly not paying monetarily.. therefore if they knew they didn't have the money to pay, yet these girls absolutely know these two and would absolutely make known that these two had screwed them over...

These two had no worries of that IMO due to the fact that they knew the victim would never live to tell.. again IMO indicating a high level of premeditation...

Some may say that if premeditated these two would have done a better job of covering their tracks.. especially not being caught on surveillance as the last to be with the victim.. and my answer to that is that save the issue of Jaren's body parts quickly surfacing there certainly appears to be no other major damning evidence having been found.. namely the site of the murder and dismemberment .. LE says those locations have yet to have been found.. IMO that's due to some level of pre planning.. premeditation ..

If they strongly felt that Jaren's body parts were successfully disposed of and would not surface.. if that had actually happened that way we would not even have a victim.. a homicide case.. we would merely have a missing persons case.. that as most locals know due to the fact that Jaren was a dancer her being merely a missing person would not at all take a high priority and it certainly would not have MAS/TS incarcerated.. because there'd be no Mississippi LE involved(who appear to be who took the case very seriously with her remains on MS beach) ...no FBI involvement..no pressure from any outsideLE agencies..nor media..

Without Jaren's remains having washed ashore MAS/TS are not even suspects.. they are going about their daily lives having completely gotten away with murder.. meanwhile Jaren would just be a Bourbon Street dancer that LE would assume had taken off.. no news media.. no case period..

So you see their premeditation would have worked perfectly.. they would've gotten away with murder.. they had zero idea her remains would wash ashore...especially not within mere hours of their having murdered her.. i truly believe this was premeditated and that there are only two people involved in this murder.. the two that are currently incarcerated..

Think about it.. what I'm saying makes sense.. of course IMO it does..

Smooth, I do agree that absent the physical remains, Jaren would've been written off by LE as a missing person with no foul play suspected. But, IMO, you have to be a stone fool to bank on that and allow yourself to be captured by surveillance cameras as the last known person(s) in the company of your intended murder victim. Not to mention, leave behind a string of eye witnesses, at least one of whom can testify that you offered her money for sex shortly beforehand. Then there's the fact that JL asked to leave work early. I don't know what reason she gave her supervisor, but that person would know she had plans to go somewhere and the cameras/eyewitnesses would know with whom.

Frankly, the whole notion of MAS and TS offering big money to dancers for a threesome is preposterous to me, especially in the manner they did. Was it so urgent that they had to approach a dancer on stage and convince JL to leave work early? That just doesn't ring true to me. I also find it hard to believe that any dancer in a Bourbon St. club would accept a proposition from TS and MAS knowing they were street people and not exactly rolling in money. JL had worked the clubs for a couple of years. I doubt she was that naive. For her to leave the club to go off with them instead of going home to her bf, I think she had to be convinced it would be worth her while. JMO.

The other possibility is that they made up a story about a gig where she could make a lot of money, and she went because -- as it's been said -- she trusted TS. Then it goes back to the above, and the ridiculous notion that you could walk out of a club with your intended victim, on camera, with eyewitnesses, and get away with murder. I don't know what happened, but I have a strong feeling TS and MAS are not the only parties involved. But if I'm wrong, and no one other than the couple was with JL after she left the club, I don't believe murder was in the plans. :moo:

 

[JurysOut]

Smooth, I do agree that absent the physical remains, Jaren would've been written off by LE as a missing person with no foul play suspected. But, IMO, you have to be a stone fool to bank on that and allow yourself to be captured by surveillance cameras as the last known person(s) in the company of your intended murder victim. Not to mention, leave behind a string of eye witnesses, at least one of whom can testify that you offered her money for sex shortly beforehand. Then there's the fact that JL asked to leave work early. I don't know what reason she gave her supervisor, but that person would know she had plans to go somewhere and the cameras/eyewitnesses would know with whom.

Frankly, the whole notion of MAS and TS offering big money to dancers for a threesome is preposterous to me, especially in the manner they did. Was it so urgent that they had to approach a dancer on stage and convince JL to leave work early? That just doesn't ring true to me. I also find it hard to believe that any dancer in a Bourbon St. club would accept a proposition from TS and MAS knowing they were street people and not exactly rolling in money. JL had worked the clubs for a couple of years. I doubt she was that naive. For her to leave the club to go off with them instead of going home to her bf, I think she had to be convinced it would be worth her while. JMO.

The other possibility is that they made up a story about a gig where she could make a lot of money, and she went because -- as it's been said -- she trusted TS. Then it goes back to the above, and the ridiculous notion that you could walk out of a club with your intended victim, on camera, with eyewitnesses, and get away with murder. I don't know what happened, but I have a strong feeling TS and MAS are not the only parties involved. But if I'm wrong, and no one other than the couple was with JL after she left the club, I don't believe murder was in the plans. :moo:

I agree. I've always thought there was either a genuine or hypothetical heavy hitter promised at the end of the line.

 

[friendofthecourt]

Yikes! Maybe MAS looked so desperate because if she couldn't find TCS a 'treat', she was afraid it was going to be her.
He may have killed before for all we know.

Biehn was convicted in 2003, is that correct? Was she just released?

Yes, she just got released, and there was even speculation on youtube that she might have been the one in the surveillance video insteadof MAS, but it was speculation instigated by former bf who is a youtube hog and shameless self promoter. If interested just go to youtube and put in her name to see that ridiculousness.
But ironic huh, that she just got released.

 

[bessie]

Oh, we know all about youtubedude. :what:

 

[SwampMama]

Oh, we know all about youtubedude. :what:

Shhh, don't mention him three times in a row or her may pop up again with another ridiculous video about the "cereal killer". He lost all credibility with me when he used the term "cereal killer" instead of "serial killer".

I just had another thought about the plan that MAS and TS may have had to cover themselves. I don't think they figured on Jaren's body appearing so fast (or thought it would never show up). They just figured she would be just another missing person who the cops would assume took off.

NOPD barely has time in solving the relentless killings in the city, much less tracking down missing women, especially if they don't even know if she took off or was kidnapped. So maybe MAS and TS kept Jaren's phone and were going to use it in a week or two to place a few calls to make it look like Jaren had just taken off on her own somewhere. Or ditch her purse or a few belongings in a truck stop after a week or so.

But Jaren outwitted them by being found so fast and the jig was up.

I don't know why they would be so stupid to be on video leaving with her but I guess they figured they were smart enough to come up with an alibi and a story of how they left Jaren safe and sound someplace, or that Jaren left town on her own. But witnesses said they seemed desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures and they took a chance that they could outwit police.

But they surely didn't count on 11 different police departments in 3 states getting involved due to their stupidity. They just thought it would be NOPD on the case and we all know how ineffective and overwhelmed NOPD is.

 

[Duckman]

Good Morning all, not sure if this has been posted yet but check it out! http://www.wlox.com/story/19051604/possible-witness-identified-in-jaren-lockhart-murder

 

[Jcarothers]

Did y'all see news about a witness? Just showed a teaser about it on WLOX.

http://www.wlox.com/story/19051604/possible-witness-identified-in-jaren-lockhart-murder

 

[Jcarothers]

Oops - should have refreshed the page!