Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/Murder in the First Degree #1

[Peekaboo10]

I had no idea that cremains weren't actually ashes... learn something new everyday!

 

[ArianeEmory]

I still wonder about those reports that indicated there were enough remains for more than one body found. Those sure got pulled quickly. An what about the neighbour who stated the incinerator was not "where it usually was" on the property? Why the need to move it?

And don't forget the scorch/burn marks reportedly seen, like it had been used in one spot and then moved.

 

[Sphinx]

And don't forget the scorch/burn marks reportedly seen, like it had been used in one spot and then moved.

Maybe they wanted to move it so the grass would grow again, and hide evidence showing it had been used. There were no animals on the farm, so its use might be suspicious to neighbours or visitors, who might ask what caused the burn marks ?

 

[Kamille]

Maybe they wanted to move it so the grass would grow again, and hide evidence showing it had been used. There were no animals on the farm, so its use might be suspicious to neighbours or visitors, who might ask what caused the burn marks ?

That's very good possibility. Another would be that they moved it to make sure that the burnt grass didn't start a grass fire. Maybe they hosed it down or stomped on it for a while. Nothing more obvious than having the neighbours call the fire department for a grass fire around your incinerator full of human remains.

MOO

 

[Peace777]

How many of these traits would fit DM or SM? http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/psychopaths.htm

 

[Archangel7]

Wouldn't teeth be considered part of the body to be recovered? I know it is hard to work around the specific language used by LE or MSM but I am guessing finding a tooth is more useful a body part to find than, let's say, a femur, as there are likely dental records but not necessarily x-rays of her body from the past. So if LB's body wasn't recovered would that mean her whole body or even a single body part?

If "the finding" was outside of the incinerator, that would be hard to prove as not having been planted or contaminated somehow. Who knows what kind of people were wandering about the farm property after this became big news?

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I believe your likely on the correct path, however I was also thinking....

Teeth in and of themselves may not be as conclusive(it would depend on where they were found condition, etc. and teeth can be pulled, even if alive)

A femur on the other hand is a large bone that is one of the human bones that is difficult to incinerate completely. It sometimes takes grinding it to powder after cremation. It also protects DNA within the bone well upon incineration, thus providing a victim ID.

Given that fact alone it is a better indicator and more impactful and positive statement of death(as far as evidence/jury)

It's also interesting to note a forensic anthropologist was utilized on the farm.

 

[Archangel7]

That's very good possibility. Another would be that they moved it to make sure that the burnt grass didn't start a grass fire. Maybe they hosed it down or stomped on it for a while. Nothing more obvious than having the neighbours call the fire department for a grass fire around your incinerator full of human remains.

MOO

Along that same line of thinking, it would be logical to assume the "neighbor" was one of the FIRST to go on the do not contact list, in my opinion, WRT TB's death.

 

[matou]

I saw this again in thedirty.com thread for Laura Babcock aka Laura Ryan missing page. Someone posted in the comment section about a 24 year old man named Christopher Franklyn Brown who went missing on May 8th 2013 from Toronto. He was thought to be suspect #2 by the commenter for some reason. He went missing from the Queen Street and Parliament area which is not too far from the 70 Distillery Lane area where DM purchased a new condo and already owned one (I believe). This man has not been found from what I have read. Not sure if related at all but thought it was interesting. A poster on here, dotr, posted about his missing status in the missing from Toronto/GTA thread. Also interesting that this missing person is described as having short or shaved hair like Mark Smich did at the time of TB's murder. JMO

http://newscanada-plus.com/missing-man-christopher-franklyn-brown-24-31421/1194

 

[hopingforjustice]

And don't forget the scorch/burn marks reportedly seen, like it had been used in one spot and then moved.

The back seat?? They may have torched it..

JMO

Unless I have missed it, I have not see much about this..

 

[hopingforjustice]

Along that same line of thinking, it would be logical to assume the "neighbor" was one of the FIRST to go on the do not contact list, in my opinion, WRT TB's death.

Is there a public record of who is on the DNC list(s)?

I noticed a post on "Dellen Millard Discuss the Case" FB page, during discussion of the Kiijji ads, that someone posted that "she just noticed " that SS was "now" on the DNC list.

Also, if you haven't been there, take a trip over, some photos I have never seen before.

 

[cansleuther]

Is there a public record of who is on the DNC list(s)?

I noticed a post on "Dellen Millard Discuss the Case" FB page, during discussion of the Kiijji ads, that someone posted that "she just noticed " that SS was "now" on the DNC list.

It's mentioned in the Toronto Star article:

The listed contact for the online advertisements is “Shane.” A Shane Schlatman — who is pictured in several Facebook photos with Millard, including one taken on a trip south for a racing competition — is one of several people Millard was ordered by a court on April 10 not to contact.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/15/accused_murderer_dellen_millards_cars_snowmobiles_listed_for_sale_on_kijiji.html

Other friends and acquaintances of DM and MS have their identities protected in the media, as evidenced here:

One of his friends on Steam is a user with an uncommon name spelled almost exactly like Mr. Smich’s co-accused in the overpass incident. (The man’s identity is protected by a publication ban in relation to Mr. Smich’s murder charge.)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Until her arrest, CN's identity was protected as well:

Noudga was Millard’s girlfriend at the time of the Bosma murder. Her name was previously covered by a publication ban.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/04/10/dellen-millard-charged-with-murder-of-his-father-and-missing-toronto-woman-laura-babcock/

Does anyone know why SS's name was allowed to be published? Is the no-contact list no longer covered under the publication ban? Or just the names added on April 10?

 

[iPhoneGuy]

What may be important to note is that the DNC list varies from the publication ban list; though in a few posts here, they're combined like a grocery list.
It would be interesting to see these listed separately.

 

[Archangel7]

Is there a public record of who is on the DNC list(s)?

I noticed a post on "Dellen Millard Discuss the Case" FB page, during discussion of the Kiijji ads, that someone posted that "she just noticed " that SS was "now" on the DNC list.

Also, if you haven't been there, take a trip over, some photos I have never seen before.

Pretty much any court order/proceeding is "public record" however not all are "published record" during the investigation and court proceedings obviously.

So in short, only the defendants, their lawyers, LE and the folk named on the list would be in the know.

It can be thought of pretty much like any other "restraining order" issued by a Judge.

 

[Alethea Dice]

What may be important to note is that the DNC list varies from the publication ban list; though in a few posts here, they're combined like a grocery list.
It would be interesting to see these listed separately.

This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is the difference then? When this first went to court, the identities of the people on the no contact list were protected by a publication ban. What makes this one different, other than the name's been recently added?

Both accused have been ordered to have no contact with a long list of people. Their lists are nearly identical, although Smich has three additional names on his. The identities of those named are protected by a publication ban, as is any evidence against Smich and Millard.

"It could interfere with this case if this list of names was published," the court was told by Deputy Crown attorney Tony Leitch, who is prosecuting both accused.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

 

[canadiangirl]

You are right...the neighbours did report those findings. And I completely agree that things must have been found in that barn. I can only hope that LE has everything they need because the new owners have been in there and doing a huge "heave ho" in the barn. I am suspecting it will come down very shortly.

JMO

It still boggles my mind how the property was allowed to be sold when they haven't even gone to trial and just made another arrest. What is up with that? Anyone have any insight? Isn't this still considered an ongoing investigation?

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[Kamille]

It still boggles my mind how the property was allowed to be sold when they haven't even gone to trial and just made another arrest. What is up with that? Anyone have any insight? Isn't this still considered an ongoing investigation?

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Not sure what you're asking here canadiangirl. All crime scenes are released after they are processed and LE from several different agencies spent a lot of time at the farm processing the scene. And it was this time that was spent there that enabled them to gather evidence and lay other murder charges. I assume that the scene was eventually released so at that point it's up to the owner to do whatever they want with it. I don't think LE can stop them from selling it once it's been released. And if there is any evidence in the future that leads them back to the farm, I'd assume they would just go back with a warrant to the new owners to do some more searching.

Trials take years. Crime scenes are released after being processed and then they are cleaned up, usually at the expense of the owners. If someone was murdered in a home, they don't hold that house for a couple of years until the trial. For what purpose would they do that? They get all the evidence they can from it to bring to trial and then release it back to the owners. It's no different if the crime scene is a farm.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

From Alethea's post above:

although Smich has three additional names on his. The identities of those named are protected by a publication ban, as is any evidence against Smich and Millard.

Just a guess here, but sounds to me like MS has sung about how the gun was acquired but DM didn't know their identities. Due to the PB, I don't think we can get into any more detail on that.

 

[Sphinx]

From Alethea's post above:



Just a guess here, but sounds to me like MS has sung about how the gun was acquired but DM didn't know their identities. Due to the PB, I don't think we can get into any more detail on that.

It certainly seems that LE has lots of evidence. They have charged DM and MS with two additional murders, and now CN is also charged as an accessory after the fact. Has a trial date been published yet ? I may have missed it.

 

[canadiangirl]

Not sure what you're asking here canadiangirl. All crime scenes are released after they are processed and LE from several different agencies spent a lot of time at the farm processing the scene. And it was this time that was spent there that enabled them to gather evidence and lay other murder charges. I assume that the scene was eventually released so at that point it's up to the owner to do whatever they want with it. I don't think LE can stop them from selling it once it's been released. And if there is any evidence in the future that leads them back to the farm, I'd assume they would just go back with a warrant to the new owners to do some more searching.

Trials take years. Crime scenes are released after being processed and then they are cleaned up, usually at the expense of the owners. If someone was murdered in a home, they don't hold that house for a couple of years until the trial. For what purpose would they do that? They get all the evidence they can from it to bring to trial and then release it back to the owners. It's no different if the crime scene is a farm.

MOO

I just feel like there's more here and it is such a huge property. I guess I was thinking what if CN starts singing and there is more to the story. They just arrested her. She could have stuff to say. Feels premature to me but maybe not. I might be just over thinking

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[Kamille]

I just feel like there's more here and it is such a huge property. I guess I was thinking what if CN starts singing and there is more to the story. They just arrested her. She could have stuff to say. Feels premature to me but maybe not. I might be just over thinking

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Like I said, if there is any reason why LE feel the need to go back to the farm, they will get a new warrant and do so. Doesn't matter who the current owner may be. Maybe the new owners will stumble on more evidence and bring it to LE's attention. In fact they may even have been asked to keep a heads up when digging on the property. We're pretty sure the previous owner would not be doing that.

MOO