Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

[andreww]

Blackmail can be as simple as saying you'll kill yourself if you don't get what you want from someone.

Which she did with the TV/Bar guy. She had another ex bf charged with assault (we have no way to know if those accusations were legit).

 

[inbetweendoors]

With that picture of him standing beside a tarped body? Not much.

I must have missed that he was in the pic with it. If it's *just* a pic of a tarped body, the argument could loosely be made that he was *just* the accessory.

Again, I believe he's guilty, I just feel a rounded discussion should include all possibilities, particularly if the evidence is largely circumstantial.

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[Tealgrove]

Just caught up. Yikes.

I'm just sitting here shaking my head at all of this. DM is a piece of work, along with CN and a multitude of others. Mean girls - very mean girls going at each other over DM. Kinda makes me sick.

CN knew that DM was sleeping with LB, LB knew that CN and DM were together, JS was in the mix along with the Real Estate Broker.

DM wanted CN. Although he's making it sound like he could roll whichever way he wanted and not care much about these women, I think he's lying. I think CN was the one, although he wanted his side pieces too.

JS finally ended it and figured it out. LB was in on it and then found Shawn but had no problem servicing DM whenever the phone rang by the sounds of it and then rubbed it in CN's nose.

But LB didn't want to be a side piece and it appears that CN and LB were jockeying for position with DM. It was CN he wanted. They probably were soulmates. I think they meshed.

LB had to go, because he'd lose CN if he didn't get rid of her. LB was never going to let go completely and she was going to continue picking away at CN. The only way to ensure that LB was out of the way was to kill her because she wasn't going to go willingly, quietly or happily. LB wouldn't move on.

Man oh man.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm assuming you mean LB here and while no one can "push" another to do anything against their will, I have also maintained that without CN's obvious distress about LB continuing to pursue DM, this plan to "make her leave their lives" may never have been hatched. And no matter what DM says, IMO she was not aware of any of the other women other than perhaps the Mexican stripper. Something tells me she'd be okay with that.

I also agree that out of all the ladies, it was likely CN's willingness to "look the other way" with regards to DM's criminal activities that emboldened him to make her his numero uno lady and ramp things up. With her approval and MS's willingness to be his sidekick, he figured it was all good.

MOO

Dead on! I agree completely.

 

[winter2017]

RandomName479, DM was involved in a lot of criminal activity for many years and led a party lifestyle for many years. There was no hint by anyone he was homicidal. Suddenly he becomes involved closely with CN and people start dying. Her texts to Laura are very antagonistic and looks like she has strong feelings against CN. There were no texts from DM to Laura I am aware of that expressed such animosity to Laura. He was annoyed by her but does not seem overly hostile. The only really hostile ones so far are by CN. I don't think it is a stretch that she pushed DM to do something to Laura, she knew that it could be made to look like Laura was an unstable person and etc. etc. She did not commit the murder but had a part of pushing DM to kill CN that is MO.

 

[andreww]

I believe you are correct. Subpoenas issued in this case are only enforceable in Canada and people who volunteer to return to give testimony, usually do so out of a sense of duty. And I believe the Crown does compensate them for their expenses by arranging for their travel and accommodation if necessary.

I wouldn't doubt that the Crown has CN under subpoena but probably has no intention to call her as a witness based on her performance at the TB trial. Keeping her out of the courtroom is probably a good idea though. I think DM kind of let that cat out of the bag this morning when he said he didn't know if they would call her. So I assume he does know that she's under subpoena but has not seen her name on any witness lists yet?

MOO

She's not coming. She was shipped off to probably stay with relatives until this blows over. She'll be back in Toronto for Christmas and will probably go back just in time for the WM trial.

 

[SnooperDuper]

She's not coming. She was shipped off to probably stay with relatives until this blows over. She'll be back in Toronto for Christmas and will probably go back just in time for the WM trial.

Your opinion?

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

RandomName479, DM was involved in a lot of criminal activity for many years and led a party lifestyle for many years. There was no hint by anyone he was homicidal. Suddenly he becomes involved closely with CN and people start dying. Her texts to Laura are very antagonistic and looks like she has strong feelings against CN. There were no texts from DM to Laura I am aware of that expressed such animosity to Laura. He was annoyed by her but does not seem overly hostile. The only really hostile ones so far are by CN. I don't think it is a stretch that she pushed DM to do something to Laura, she knew that it could be made to look like Laura was an unstable person and etc. etc. She did not commit the murder but had a part of pushing DM to kill CN that is MO.

I see nothing that shows DM would do anything for anyone that didn't benefit him or his reputation. Just don't buy it that CN said to kill him and he did it. If anything her wanting him to kill her would have made him less likely to do so. LB became a thorn in his side and he knew she was an easy target so he and MS did it.

He was right about her being an easy target, if they hadn't killed TB they wouldn't have been arrested for this.

 

[winter2017]

In the first trial many on other forums were saying that it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt the it was M!. I believed it was and argued and it was my first time ever following a trial and i have no legal training but I said it was M1. The others arguing seemed more knowledge of legal proceedings. Then when the jury came back M!, I realised the I did have a few doubts but strongly believed it was M!. I am going by the same feeling that CN was like MS very involved in the murder of Laura Babcock. She did to murder her, at least no evidence of that , but she had so much hostility to her it seemed even out of proportion to the cause for her hostility , that IMO she was not the murderer but very involved.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

The crown really painted itself in to a corner with this love triangle theory. From what we have learned about LB, she was prone to extortion, and if you were going to extort DM wouldn't it be about his illegal activities and not his sex life?

Agree with this. The motive aspect was the weakest part of the TB case too. They seem reluctant to just say the guy is a psycho and killed because he wanted to.

 

[Tealgrove]

I see nothing that shows DM would do anything for anyone that didn't benefit him or his reputation. Just don't buy it that CN said to kill him and he did it. If anything her wanting him to kill her would have made him less likely to do so. LB became a thorn in his side and he knew she was an easy target so he and MS did it.

This may not be a popular opinion but I don't think CN asked DM to kill Laura. I don't believe that.

What I do believe is that these girls (women) were at each other's throats. He did care because the resulting feud was causing him troubles with CN.

TBH, if I was CN and this girl was constantly sticking it in my face about my boyfriend, I'd probably give DM an ultimatum and I would say GET RID OF HER or I'M OUT OF HERE! Actually I'd have ended but...I can see this playing out.

I really think that CN and DM had a thing. Sometimes people come together like the "perfect storm". I believe that is the case here.

DM killed her because he wanted to and because he could. He had figured out a way of getting rid of a problem and removing all evidence of the problem in a creative and unheard of way.

MOO

 

[winter2017]

Tealgrove that is a good way to explain it. I still do not sure believe without CN pressuring DM that he would have killed Laura. Once he killed once and got away with it for a long time, motivated him to kill again. I doubt we will ever know and IMO CN should be locked up too and spent time in prison, but just like Karla Homolka she gets off.

 

[Tealgrove]

Agree with this. The motive aspect was the weakest part of the TB case too. They seem reluctant to just say the guy is a psycho and killed because he wanted to.

The Crown is not compelled to provide a motive. They are compelled to prove that a crime was committed.

 

[andreww]

Just caught up. Yikes.

I'm just sitting here shaking my head at all of this. DM is a piece of work, along with CN and a multitude of others. Mean girls - very mean girls going at each other over DM. Kinda makes me sick.

CN knew that DM was sleeping with LB, LB knew that CN and DM were together, JS was in the mix along with the Real Estate Broker.

DM wanted CN. Although he's making it sound like he could roll whichever way he wanted and not care much about these women, I think he's lying. I think CN was the one, although he wanted his side pieces too.

JS finally ended it and figured it out. LB was in on it and then found Shawn but had no problem servicing DM whenever the phone rang by the sounds of it and then rubbed it in CN's nose.

But LB didn't want to be a side piece and it appears that CN and LB were jockeying for position with DM. It was CN he wanted. They probably were soulmates. I think they meshed.

LB had to go, because he'd lose CN if he didn't get rid of her. LB was never going to let go completely and she was going to continue picking away at CN. The only way to ensure that LB was out of the way was to kill her because she wasn't going to go willingly, quietly or happily. LB wouldn't move on.

Man oh man.

MOO

whoah, we haven't heard anything to suggest that other than that one text exchange, there was much going on between CN and LB. Seems all the friends were privy to that but none related any further incidents. You can only tell someone their better half is unfaithful once. LBs hand was played with regards to that matter. Perhaps CN gave DM an ultimatum that if she ever heard from her again, they were done, but we haven't heard anything to that effect as of yet.

 

[Errrr]

Agree with this. The motive aspect was the weakest part of the TB case too. They seem reluctant to just say the guy is a psycho and killed because he wanted to.

Human life has so little value to these two. When MS asks for something with bones in it to test the "BBQ", DM doesn't even think to purchase a BBQ pig. Girls are simply cheaper.

 

[james9]

Exactly. Why not "get rid of" all the women with whom he was unfaithful to CN - what was special about LB? Extortion sounds like a good theory to me. Not discounting the pregnancy theory either.

I don't think we really need a motive here. This is a guy that killed TB for a truck that he could have bought or stolen without killing TB. He bought the Eliminator for a reason, and he wanted to use it. Maybe LB was just convenient subject to test out the Eliminator. A disgusting thought, but DM is clearly a very sick person.

 

[winter2017]

If CN was the instigator to kill Laura, and MS just went along with DM to kill her or even just dispose of the body, he got himself tangled up in big-time trouble for something that it looks like he had nothing bad towards Laura. Nowhere has it said MS had any bad interaction with Laura.

 

[canadiangirl]

It's clear to me that KS is trying to help out DM and CN as much as she can and always has.

Exactly. CN is her bestie and AM is still his "wingman". He gave SS a car for a gift. They are all in the know IMO and covering for each other. They make me sick

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[winter2017]

That is good to know they don't have to provide a motive because I am hearing probably very unknowledgeable people say now that there is no love triangle motive that there will be a mistrial. ugh.

 

[andreww]

The Crown is not compelled to provide a motive. They are compelled to prove that a crime was committed.

But when you don't have a body you kind of are compelled to come up with a solid motive. Especially in this case where you have an unstable, possibly suicidal victim. So far the only real evidence we've seen is the "meat" text, Smich's rap lyrics and the iPad. The iPad can be explained by saying she disappeared from Millard's and left it there. Rap lyrics can be explained as artistic license. So disregarding what we know from the TB trial, there is not a lot thus far. That said it is early going. The crown is laying things out, the first group of witnesses establishing that LB is very likely dead, the next group developing a picture of Millard's chaotic love life at the time. Thats where we stand today, so the meat of their case is still ahead of us.