Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[JuneBug67]

We heard testimony about a 225 L propane tank today. According to the original calculations from SS for the originally proposed 100 lb. tanks, a full 225 L should have been enough to burn about 700 lbs. of organic material. Even allowing for mistakes and inexperience, one has to wonder why there was still material with enough moisture left to smell by late August if they burned through that much propane with the single incineration we know about for sure. It's pretty unclear.

 

[JuneBug67]

Can I just say: Robert Burns seems like an all-around quality human.

Interesting how each of us sees something a bit different here. He's the Rorschach test of the LB trial.

 

[Factoria]

There's a correction to an earlier tweet from Shannon Martin. Shannon Martin mixed-up identifying Millard and Smich's texts. Here is the original, followed by the catch by Lisa Davidson-Hogg and then Shannon Martin's response.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV

Millard: "no I will arrange it. you aint gotta do **** except tell me when you can chill"

Smich: "tell him i want to talk about tools."

Det. Jansz says "tools" refers to firearms
4:20 PM - 16 Nov 2017 from Canada


Lisa Davidson-Hogg‏
Replying to @ShannonMartinTV

Isn't the exchange between Millard and Smich in the reverse?


Shannon Martin Retweeted Lisa Davidson-Hogg

Thanks for the catch - you are correct!

That was NOT the exchange that she'd gotten reversed... ^^THIS version is reversed!

The reversal happened with regard to the DM/Isho texts on July 1/2, as seen on the extraction report re DM's phone. Exhibit 1001. You can see the actual report at :40 of this video: [video=youtube;s6UnVuVPMZQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6UnVuVPMZQ[/video]

 

[JuneBug67]

Iisho is pretty funny with his slimy salesman rap. Twice he told DM that the seller of two different guns he bought was really mad to have to let it go for such a low price, and honest to God Iisho wasn't making a dime, and it was a great deal. LOL.

 

[mimimic]

Just in case you missed this.

After some legal arguments, the jury is back.



Justice Michael Code tells them:



"It looks like Crown may close its case next week. And we may give you Monday off."

 

[Boudica]

***from here

I wasn't in court today, what was it like? Were you there when Robert Burns took the stand?
It must have been intense?

 

[paris_paris]

We heard testimony about a 225 L propane tank today. According to the original calculations from SS for the originally proposed 100 lb. tanks, a full 225 L should have been enough to burn about 700 lbs. of organic material. Even allowing for mistakes and inexperience, one has to wonder why there was still material with enough moisture left to smell by late August if they burned through that much propane with the single incineration we know about for sure. It's pretty unclear.

Well, cremation requires a very high temperature. It's hard to hold that temperature when you keep opening the lid to take pictures. Did they ever find a cell phone for MS?

 

[matou]

I think Laura liked purple:

Crown Jill Cameron asks Trevors about Babcock's dog.

Her name was Lacey, she wore a purple bow in her hair and had a purple collar.

"She never left her side, even when we went to get pizza, she brought her inside to Pizza Pizza with her," said Trevors.

http://live.cbc.ca/Event/Day_7_of_Laura_Babcock_trial_in_Toronto

 

[JuneBug67]

Well, cremation requires a very high temperature. It's hard to hold that temperature when you keep opening the lid to take pictures. Did they ever find a cell phone for MS?

LOL. I had that thought too. But the whole inside is constructed to retain heat in the walls and grate etc. That wouldn't cool THAT much I wouldn't think, even though some heat through the air would be lost. I just find it a mystery that creates less certainty than I already had for why he really bought the machine, which wasn't much certainty to begin with.

 

[lighthousedi]

Don't know if the question about what might have been in the Yukon that would have relevance was answered.
I recall the 'papers' for the Eliminator were in the bag in the Yukon. The invoice I believe.

 

[matou]

Dellen Millard claimed incinerator was for pet cremation business — uncle called idea ‘absurd,’ Babcock trial hears

After several back-and-forth questions about whether Burns had visited Millard’s home to treat his father’s cats, Burns lost his temper.


“I have to be very clear that this tragic and diabolical affair, I have one role in it,” Burns said, his voice rising as he stared at his nephew.


The outburst prompted an intervention from the judge.


“The personal commentary is completely forbidden, you must stop that,” Justice Michael Code said to Burns.


Court also repeatedly heard Millard call the relationship with his uncle “distant.”


“Robbie, we already outlined our relationship is distant, that’s clear right now in the courtroom, would you agree with that?” Millard asked at one point.


Burns took a long pause, a deep breath and looked around the courtroom before returning his gaze to his nephew.


“That would be an understatement,” he said.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...e-called-idea-absurd-babcock-trial-hears.html

 

[Ms.elle]

Maybe AM? His name has come up a lot in this trial. Based on texts, DM alleges that LB had his iPhone, sounds like they may have had a prior relationship beyond friendship and he was supposed to be reporting her whereabouts to DM. I would assume that he may have some light to shine on motive or detail regarding DM and MS.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Specifically, there were texts with DM asking AM to keep an eye on Laura. I can't imagine that he'd not going to be called to give context on that.

 

[Tilly23]

We heard testimony about a 225 L propane tank today. According to the original calculations from SS for the originally proposed 100 lb. tanks, a full 225 L should have been enough to burn about 700 lbs. of organic material. Even allowing for mistakes and inexperience, one has to wonder why there was still material with enough moisture left to smell by late August if they burned through that much propane with the single incineration we know about for sure. It's pretty unclear.

Here's an excerpt from the cbc article yesterday regarding the testimony of SS:

Schlatman said getting the machine to work took a couple of weeks,

Court again saw a flurry of texts between Schlatman and Millard, from around this time, the latter repeatedly asking for updates, writing "the BBQ was top priority."

Then at 9:34 a.m. on July 23, Schlatman sent a celebratory text, "Eliminator is eliminating," he wrote Millard.

Schlatman explained he tested the machine by running an eight-hour burn cycle at the farm.

The jury has previously seen messages exchanged between Millard and Smich from the same day.

"Bbq has run its warm up, it's ready for meat," Millard wrote on the afternoon of July 23.

The jury also saw a photo of objects engulfed in flames from inside the Eliminator, which was taken on July 23, at 11:20 p.m.​

link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-murder-trial-mechanic-1.4402262

So it seems the BBQ ran for 8 hours before it was used on LB. Maybe that explains where some of the propane went?

MOO

 

[Alban]

That was NOT the exchange that she'd gotten reversed... ^^THIS version is reversed!

The reversal happened with regard to the DM/Isho texts on July 1/2, as seen on the extraction report re DM's phone. Exhibit 1001. You can see the actual report at :40 of this video: [video=youtube;s6UnVuVPMZQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6UnVuVPMZQ[/video]

Well, here are Shannon Martin's original tweet followed by Lisa Davidson-Hogg's catch, and then by Shannon Martin's acknowledgement. I just copy/pasted all three tweets in the sequence they were posted in. [video=twitter;931271356150300672]https://twitter.com/hogg_lisa/status/931271356150300672[/video]
[video=twitter;931275028313923585]https://twitter.com/ShannonMartinTV/status/931275028313923585[/video]

It is clear to me that Millard and Smich are reversed in Shannon Martin's original tweet, since Iisho was MS' contact/friend and not DM's. I believe the tweets between Iisho and DM at video ~40 sec mark occurred after MS' original contact with Iisho about the possibility of securing a firearm for DM.

 

[JuneBug67]

Here's an excerpt from the cbc article yesterday regarding the testimony of SS:

Schlatman said getting the machine to work took a couple of weeks,

Court again saw a flurry of texts between Schlatman and Millard, from around this time, the latter repeatedly asking for updates, writing "the BBQ was top priority."

Then at 9:34 a.m. on July 23, Schlatman sent a celebratory text, "Eliminator is eliminating," he wrote Millard.

Schlatman explained he tested the machine by running an eight-hour burn cycle at the farm.

The jury has previously seen messages exchanged between Millard and Smich from the same day.

"Bbq has run its warm up, it's ready for meat," Millard wrote on the afternoon of July 23.

The jury also saw a photo of objects engulfed in flames from inside the Eliminator, which was taken on July 23, at 11:20 p.m.​

link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-murder-trial-mechanic-1.4402262

So it seems the BBQ ran for 8 hours before it was used on LB. Maybe that explains where some of the propane went?

MOO

Thanks! Great point - thank you for that recollection. And it was a special break in process with a warm up and cool down rather than full bore for 8 hours, so there would have been gas left likely. I don't recall testimony that it was refilled after that, but I'll double check.

 

[bakingirl]

Crowns strategy to leave the best for the last? I'm hoping with you!

I hope so too! M1 conviction without a body or a confession will be difficult, IMO.

 

[Woodland]

Here's an excerpt from the cbc article yesterday regarding the testimony of SS:

Schlatman said getting the machine to work took a couple of weeks,

Court again saw a flurry of texts between Schlatman and Millard, from around this time, the latter repeatedly asking for updates, writing "the BBQ was top priority."

Then at 9:34 a.m. on July 23, Schlatman sent a celebratory text, "Eliminator is eliminating," he wrote Millard.

Schlatman explained he tested the machine by running an eight-hour burn cycle at the farm.

The jury has previously seen messages exchanged between Millard and Smich from the same day.

"Bbq has run its warm up, it's ready for meat," Millard wrote on the afternoon of July 23.

The jury also saw a photo of objects engulfed in flames from inside the Eliminator, which was taken on July 23, at 11:20 p.m.​

link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-murder-trial-mechanic-1.4402262

So it seems the BBQ ran for 8 hours before it was used on LB. Maybe that explains where some of the propane went?

MOO

UBM - seems to me SS should have smelled something bad on 23 July at the farm. That's about 20 days of decomposition.

 

[Factoria]

Well, here are Shannon Martin's original tweet followed by Lisa Davidson-Hogg's catch, and then by Shannon Martin's acknowledgement. I just copy/pasted all three tweets in the sequence they were posted in. [video=twitter;931271356150300672]https://twitter.com/hogg_lisa/status/931271356150300672[/video]
[video=twitter;931275028313923585]https://twitter.com/ShannonMartinTV/status/931275028313923585[/video]

It is clear to me that Millard and Smich are reversed in Shannon Martin's original tweet, since Iisho was MS' contact/friend and not DM's. I believe the tweets between Iisho and DM at video ~40 sec mark occurred after MS' original contact with Iisho about the possibility of securing a firearm for DM.

Ah... I thought that the tweet where she said Millard said "no I will arrange... was her corrected version... fwiw, I only could see the actual text of the tweets in the post, not the actual 'tweet bubbles', if that makes sense. lol

 

[JuneBug67]

Thanks! Great point - thank you for that recollection. And it was a special break in process with a warm up and cool down rather than full bore for 8 hours, so there would have been gas left likely. I don't recall testimony that it was refilled after that, but I'll double check.

Quoting myself to add that according to resident librarian billandrew's amazing resource DM "Millard takes photos of his computer screen showing various locations to purchase fuel." at 4 pm on the 23rd. I don't think we have testimony about whether that happened and if so, how much. It's not something the Crown needs to go into I suppose, because they have evidence that the machine ran that night, which is all they need.

 

[Oreck]

For Millard there certainly is.

Sorry, but I can't agree. Put yourself in the position of the jury. Most of the evidence is circumstantial and NO BODY. Too many good lookin hookers get kidnaped. Suddenly no phone, no credit cards, no nothing. Coaxed onto a boat in the Toronto harbour and Just Gone.

I still think Crown will drop the blockbuster. I can't see them skipping prelim on what they have shown the jury so far.
Just my feeling.