Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[james9]

Compare the grace and restraint of Mr. Babcock on the stand. In that light it is even clearer to me how unusually self involved Burns has been over both trials. I really do think it’s striking.

<modsnip> We don't know at this point what happened in 2002 for Dr. Burns to hate DM, but I think something did happen (or multiple things) to cause his hatred, and it is totally justifiable for him to have contempt against his convicted murderer nephew on the stand...

Mr. Babcock never had an extensive personal relationship with DM, so he wouldn't have the built-up animosity that Dr. Burns has towards Millard. Mr Babcock is just beginning to hear some of the details about the things that happened to his daughter, so it could take time for it all to soak in...

 

[huntergerrard]

Wow! Millard got nowhere with his cross but wanted desperately to do this cross.

I am blown away by this. Just blown away.

I think DM may have scored a point for his defense in that this business neighbor Dubien knew about DM's pet cremation business, adding legitimacy for the jury, but I still don't see it as a win.

 

[don_quixote]

Mr. Whiskers is gonna see Dr. Burns.
Sorry, still can't get over that.

 

[Claroon]

junebug67, One thing that puzzled me why DM a grown adult would be living at the house of his father. He not only lived there but took it over. He had other properties he owned, yet he lived there and completely took it over. That is a sign that something was not right.
How did he think it was alright to take over the house and have a lot of parties and do what he wanted. The father must not have been able to stand up to him.
Then the father makes sure DM is provided for.
Maybe the father wanted to disinherit DM and that is why DM may have killed him.

Abro tells a bit more in her book. Google it. He was living other places. The father did kick him out at one point. Yes, the father was plenty annoyed. When he broke up with his fiance, he moved back in with daddy. IMO

 

[huntergerrard]

IMO, Dr. Burns' anger is fuelled not so much by publicity or inconvenience to him or his family, but moreso from his more intimate knowledge of DM as an individual, his prior relationship with DM, and in knowing what the jury may not know ... that not only is his nephew currently on trial for Laura's murder, but has already been found guilty for the incinerator death of Tim Bosma and will face trial in the death of his own father.

IMO, Dr. Burns' thoughts are with the victims and their families, and he wants so badly to see his nephew brought to justice for each and every one of the victims that DM is accused of killing.

Could be wrong (it's happened before )

I agree. Also, knowing the life and privilege DM has had, and what he COULD HAVE done with his life must be infuriating to family members. Not only did he waste his own life, he took the lives of others.

 

[huntergerrard]

I don't see RB testifying at the WM trial but I do see MB testifying at it. She has to as she was quite involved in that one.

Could that be why the Crown seems to be keeping her out of these two trials?

 

[JuneBug67]

<modsnip> We don't know at this point what happened in 2002 for Dr. Burns to hate DM, but I think something did happen (or multiple things) to cause his hatred, and it is totally justifiable for him to have contempt against his convicted murderer nephew on the stand...

Mr. Babcock never had an extensive personal relationship with DM, so he wouldn't have the built-up animosity that Dr. Burns has towards Millard. Mr Babcock is just beginning to hear some of the details about the things that happened to his daughter, so it could take time for it all to soak in...

I don&#8217;t know why Burns feels the way he does. It&#8217;s not his feelings I question, it&#8217;s his actions. There is just something a bit off about using two courtrooms - where the focus should be on the victims, the accused, and justice - to make an elaborate spectacle of your over-the-top contempt for your sister&#8217;s only child. It has just seemed startlingly self-focused to me, twice now.

Today DM was trying to question him about coming to Maple Gate to treat cats and he responded with a truly bizarrely egocentric refutation of his involvement with DMs crimes. Come on now. Reel it in and behave in a way that befits the gravity of these proceedings and the outsized losses and pain of others, including his own sister. Multiple judicial admonishments during just a few minutes on the stand? He&#8217;s willing to disrespect the court just for his perceived right to disrespect his nephew. I find that to be inappropriate, narcissistic behaviour that is not well excused by whatever his sick, twisted prick family member has done.

 

[Claroon]

I agree. Also, knowing the life and privilege DM has had, and what he COULD HAVE done with his life must be infuriating to family members. Not only did he waste his own life, he took the lives of others.

The coldest part of it is I don't think he grasps that he did take a human life. He has no clue what he's done.

He also has no clue what a business wreck he's been wasting money. Added on, takes no responsibility for the vehicles he's broken. Blamed it on the manufacturer.

Delusional. IMO

 

[Claroon]

I don&#8217;t know why Burns feels the way he does. It&#8217;s not his feelings I question, it&#8217;s his actions. There is just something a bit off about using two courtrooms - where the focus should be on the victims, the accused, and justice - to make an elaborate spectacle of your over-the-top contempt for your sister&#8217;s only child. It has just seemed startlingly self-focused to me, twice now.

Today DM was trying to question him about coming to Maple Gate to treat cats and he responded with a truly bizarrely egocentric refutation of his involvement with DMs crimes. Come on now. Reel it in and behave in a way that befits the gravity of these proceedings and the outsized losses and pain of others, including his own sister. Multiple judicial admonishments during just a few minutes on the stand? He&#8217;s willing to disrespect the court just for his perceived right to disrespect his nephew. I find that to be inappropriate, narcissistic behaviour that is not well excused by whatever his sick, twisted prick family member has done.

Totally disagree.

When a person has to deal with a toxic person for what amounts to YEARS, it becomes personal. We can't begin to comprehend the internal knowledge he has of DM and his shenanigans especially as he tried to parent him for a time. He has inner knowledge and possibly has put up with DM while taken advantage of far too often. He has lots of feelings regarding this and the despicable diabolical act DM commited, and is obviously resentful of this:

"Dragged into a police station. Dragged into court. Now forced to withstand questioning by the very person on trial for murder. Any attempt at control was quickly slipping away." http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-an-uncles-distain-for-accused-killer-dellen-millard

I might be filled with equal contempt were I in his shoes. IMO

 

[Claroon]

Just as we have no privilege to criticize what others post here under veiled names, I don't feel we have any place in criticizing how a publicly identified witness in a major trial acts on the stand. IMO. This is not TV.

 

[JuneBug67]

&#8220;Dragged into a police station. Dragged into court. Now forced to withstand questioning by the very person on trial for murder. Any attempt at control was quickly slipping away."

And I think this is a big part of why I find his antics so unjustifiable. If the worst thing that ever happens to you in life is that you find yourself in the unchosen situation of having to clarify information for police and serve the course of justice by rearranging your schedule for a few hours twice in 18 months, then you don&#8217;t have it so bad. Dragged into a police station? Dragged into court? Laura and Tim were murdered and dragged into incinerators. He&#8217;s willing to risk the proceedings to serve his own anger and disgust, and that is unambiguously selfish.

 

[JuneBug67]

Just as we have no privilege to criticize what others post here under veiled names, I don't feel we have any place in criticizing how a publicly identified witness in a major trial acts on the stand. IMO. This is not TV.

That standard was not applied to CN, MH, AM etc. etc., nor should it have been. I am as shocked, horrified and disgusted at DM as anybody anywhere, but that doesn&#8217;t lead me to want to find a justification for the bad, judicially censured behaviour of his uncle. Other people feel differently, and I completely understand that.

 

[LadyL]

maybe that was actually his valiant attempt to contain himself
maybe he's so full of rage that DM is lucky he didn't punch him in the back of his head while passing by on the way to the witness box

I don’t know why Burns feels the way he does. It’s not his feelings I question, it’s his actions. There is just something a bit off about using two courtrooms - where the focus should be on the victims, the accused, and justice - to make an elaborate spectacle of your over-the-top contempt for your sister’s only child. It has just seemed startlingly self-focused to me, twice now.

Today DM was trying to question him about coming to Maple Gate to treat cats and he responded with a truly bizarrely egocentric refutation of his involvement with DMs crimes. Come on now. Reel it in and behave in a way that befits the gravity of these proceedings and the outsized losses and pain of others, including his own sister. Multiple judicial admonishments during just a few minutes on the stand? He’s willing to disrespect the court just for his perceived right to disrespect his nephew. I find that to be inappropriate, narcissistic behaviour that is not well excused by whatever his sick, twisted prick family member has done.

 

[JuneBug67]

maybe that was actually his valiant attempt to contain himself
maybe he's so full of rage that DM is lucky he didn't punch him in the back of his head while passing by on the way to the witness box

DM is lucky that his uncle&#8217;s rapt attention to himself likely created a shred of sympathy for him and bolstered his suggestion that he didn&#8217;t approach his uncle with the cremation business because he expected to be treated as he was in the courtroom today. In was, in fact, DMs lucky day.

 

[JuneBug67]

Anyway! Tomorrow is hopefully MM day, and hopefully her testimony will shed important light on the truth of what happened to Laura, and she won&#8217;t be polarizing on our forum as RB was today.

I appreciate everybody&#8217;s thoughts on this today, even though I don&#8217;t agree with every one of them. G&#8217;night.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

For me, he does something I couldn’t quite imagine ever happening: makes Millard a slightly sympathetic character. Does anybody in this family care about anybody other than themselves? This is his sister’s only child.

I understand what you are saying, however, Dr. Burns looked after Dellen for a time ... I think Dellen lived with his family for a while. Pure speculation, but I am assuming that DM did something extremely serious and horrific to warrant Dr. Burns wrath and revulsion. None of us know the history of their relationship.

I will never have an iota of sympathy for DM.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Or drugs

Or something worse than that even.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

I don't think anybody would think that Burns has an obligation to look out for Millard at this point, but the over-the-top contempt is self serving to me. I had the same impression at the TB trial. He seemed furious and put out that he had been dragged into any of it and seemed to be taking absurd pains to let everybody know how much he hated his "technical" nephew. There was no trace of sadness or regret at the path his nephew had taken, only concern that he not be tainted by it. Certainly there is no concern for his sister's feelings, calling her only child's life useless and his thoughts drivel on the very public record. 2002 is when he stopped seeing DM for "altruistic reasons", as he previously described their relationship when DM was between 15-17. Asked about being at Maple Gate in 2012 he actually starts making a rather grandiose statement about not being involved in this tragic and diabolical affair. That's bizzarely egocentric. I understand Burns' feelings. I don't understand his corresponding lack of feelings, or his failure to reign it in and be a serious and sober witness. The best way to honour and serve the people lost in these tragedies is not likely to be acting in a way that gets you admonished from the judge. Witnesses who have been this contemptuous of the process and this self concerned in the past have rightly gotten panned by our peanut gallery. This guy gets cheered on? Ugh. The principle remains they same no matter who is testifying.

The overall impression I have had since the TB trial is that the narcissistic and self-absorbed DM didn't fall far from the narcissistic and self-absorbed family tree.

We have no idea what has happened between DM and Dr. Burns and/or his family. It could possibly be something so egregious that Dr. Burns felt no other choice but to completely distance himself and his family from DM.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Compare the grace and restraint of Mr. Babcock on the stand. In that light it is even clearer to me how unusually self involved Burns has been over both trials. I really do think it’s striking.

But we have no idea about DM’s and Dr. Burns relationship history. If you heard what really happened between DM, Burns and his family, you might reconsider your judgement.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

At this point Smich looks like he's got a decent shot at beating this charge. No doubt he helped with the burn but I have seen no evidence thus far that he had anything to do with the murder.

Doesn’t matter. They were co-conspirators in the murder. Does not matter who did the killing.



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