Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[MrsThreadgoode]

Yes. We will never know the extent of his involvement, IMO, but it's looking like there is a lack of evidence to find him guilty in this case.

Gosh, I think there is more evidence in this case than there was in the Bosma trial. I am overwhelmed by all the circumstantial evidence. They are both resoundingly guilty. Tie all the texts, the cell phone times/data, the pics, the rap song and so much more together. None of it is questionable. It is a solid case of murder for both of them, as co-conspirators.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

I'm not really seeing where RBs anger is coming from. I mean he'd severed ties with DM years ago. Sure he had to spend a few days in court, but he should be happy to do his civic duty. Feel sorry for everybody involved in something like this but calling him a victim is a stretch.

We do not know their history. something horrific could have had between DM, Burns and his family years ago. For Dr. Burns to have such a strong feeling of animosity towards DM, IMO some extremely bad happened at some point, and Dr. Burns is unable to tone down his disdain. And, IMO, it is probably for extremely good reason.


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[LadyL]

no way
you think the jury felt sympathy for the defendant because his uncle clearly hates him?
I think the jury's smarter than that and realize that uncle probably has very good reasons to loathe the defendant

DM is lucky that his uncle’s rapt attention to himself likely created a shred of sympathy for him and bolstered his suggestion that he didn’t approach his uncle with the cremation business because he expected to be treated as he was in the courtroom today. In was, in fact, DMs lucky day.

 

[mimimic]

Sort of agree, although neighbor told RB that DM told him, he was going into business with RB. In this way it shows either the neighbor got facts wrong, RB is lying or DM is lying.

I think DM may have scored a point for his defense in that this business neighbor Dubien knew about DM's pet cremation business, adding legitimacy for the jury, but I still don't see it as a win.

 

[mimimic]

Let's say hypothetically you were being questioned by someone you knew was out right lying and you hate them and it it is a huge important issue and they are saying things to you and the world that involve you, you might be a tad emotional.and and and you might want to get that out there and be very clear about it.

I don’t know why Burns feels the way he does. It’s not his feelings I question, it’s his actions. There is just something a bit off about using two courtrooms - where the focus should be on the victims, the accused, and justice - to make an elaborate spectacle of your over-the-top contempt for your sister’s only child. It has just seemed startlingly self-focused to me, twice now.

Today DM was trying to question him about coming to Maple Gate to treat cats and he responded with a truly bizarrely egocentric refutation of his involvement with DMs crimes. Come on now. Reel it in and behave in a way that befits the gravity of these proceedings and the outsized losses and pain of others, including his own sister. Multiple judicial admonishments during just a few minutes on the stand? He’s willing to disrespect the court just for his perceived right to disrespect his nephew. I find that to be inappropriate, narcissistic behaviour that is not well excused by whatever his sick, twisted prick family member has done.

 

[mimimic]

This is probably why he can stay calm questioning his uncle.

The coldest part of it is I don't think he grasps that he did take a human life. He has no clue what he's done.

He also has no clue what a business wreck he's been wasting money. Added on, takes no responsibility for the vehicles he's broken. Blamed it on the manufacturer.

Delusional. IMO

 

[winter2017]

In the picture of DM with Jen the lady he was engaged to, he looked a lot different. He looked better in that picture with her.
She was probably one of the most decent people he was involved with and maybe that was too boring for him and he broke up with her.
Lucky for her she did break up with him because she did before he started getting worse.
i wonder what she has to say about him. Nothing has been in media about her.

 

[Inspector_North]

We have learned a lot about the Super Nova 500 lb incinerator (SN500). That it comes in various fuel configurations. How much propane it requires for a one hour burn. That when using propane it requires a larger fuel supply line to feed the two burners. It comes in various configurations of a loading door. The main chamber reaches a temp. of 1300, and the secondary 1400.

However, one piece of information that I have not seen is the warm up time, and the cool off time. Not that it is needed to make the mobile pet cremation idea ridiculous, but I don't believe you could visit more than one site a day when you factor in those times. MOO

My inexpensive BBQ takes some time to cool in the summer months before I can put the cover back one. Can't see the SN500 being towed until it's cooled down.

 

[JuneBug67]

no way
you think the jury felt sympathy for the defendant because his uncle clearly hates him?
I think the jury's smarter than that and realize that uncle probably has very good reasons to loathe the defendant

You can see the varied reactions to his testimony here. The jury is just another group of of people cut from a crossection of life.

 

[Fionn]

You can see the varied reactions to his testimony here. The jury is just another group of of people cut from a crossection of life.

I couldn’t agree more and that is what makes this forum so interesting.


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[Inspector_North]

no way
you think the jury felt sympathy for the defendant because his uncle clearly hates him?
I think the jury's smarter than that and realize that uncle probably has very good reasons to loathe the defendant

There will always be folks that fall for the art of the sycophant. IMO, if DM has mastered anything, it's that art. We saw it in his letters to CN. In his letters, he used the art to try to win CN's loyalty to get her to change AM's testimony. He also mentioned in his letters that he managed to win over some of the guards.

It was that art that he discovered worked best on teenagers that were easily influenced with his carrot on a pole generosity. Parties, games, drugs, trips, and even free Chicken Wings was all that was needed to have them buy into his twisted world without questioning it. He promised his mother a new home. Promised SS a spot on his farm property. He promised his contractor a building business in his name. He promised his Real Estate lover work flipping his homes. He promised MS a recording studio.

But under his ability to change his shallow rich nice guy persona to fit the situation, lies a cold blooded calculating murderer that planned to take things from the source, and burn their remains. MOO

 

[Hstevenson86]

I don’t know why Burns feels the way he does. It’s not his feelings I question, it’s his actions. There is just something a bit off about using two courtrooms - where the focus should be on the victims, the accused, and justice - to make an elaborate spectacle of your over-the-top contempt for your sister’s only child. It has just seemed startlingly self-focused to me, twice now.

Today DM was trying to question him about coming to Maple Gate to treat cats and he responded with a truly bizarrely egocentric refutation of his involvement with DMs crimes. Come on now. Reel it in and behave in a way that befits the gravity of these proceedings and the outsized losses and pain of others, including his own sister. Multiple judicial admonishments during just a few minutes on the stand? He’s willing to disrespect the court just for his perceived right to disrespect his nephew. I find that to be inappropriate, narcissistic behaviour that is not well excused by whatever his sick, twisted prick family member has done.

I feel the same way. He seems to want everyone to know that he is not involved. He reminds me of someone trying to prove his innocence yet he hasn’t been convicted of anything. Of course, that’s my opinion and I don’t personally know this man so it could just be his personality. He seems “put out” by being there and that in my eyes is disrespectful to the family of the victim.


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[Grey-St]

Let's say hypothetically you were being questioned by someone you knew was out right lying and you hate them and it it is a huge important issue and they are saying things to you and the world that involve you, you might be a tad emotional.and and and you might want to get that out there and be very clear about it.

I tend to agree with this. I think this has been a really great discussion regarding Dr. Burns' testimony, and I've taken into consideration everyone's opinion respectfully. I think JuneBug67 has also made some really fine points.

My opinion also takes into consideration my own personal experience. I've had to testify in court with the perpetrator in the room, and I was physically sick with disgust and nerves over what this individual did to me, and others, and having to repeat it on the stand. The cross-examination was brutal, and enraged me, and I was addressed by a lawyer, not the accused himself. For those of you who don't have this experience, I will tell you it is one of the hardest things you'll ever do in your life. Human emotion can be a very difficult thing to harness.

I can appreciate that RB's testimony may have seemed self-serving, but for him in was deeply personal. I think his contempt goes beyond what his nephew is accused of. It involves what he's accused of, but there's more to it in my opinion. Something, or many things, may have happened leading up to or in 2002. For him to specifically address this year as when their relationship dissolved, seems suspicious to me. We don't know the whole story.

I think it's important to put ourselves in the shoes of these witnesses, and think about how we might act or display on the stand if we were in the same position. It's not easy.

 

[andreww]

Doesn’t matter. They were co-conspirators in the murder. Does not matter who did the killing.



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I think there is a lot of evidence to show Millard acted alone. The text that told Smich not to be outside when he arrived with LB, the text that said he was on a mission during the time of the murder, tells me Smich had no clue what was going down. Did he know in advance but just didn’t know the details? Maybe, but that can’t be proved at this point.


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[Inspector_North]

I think there is a lot of evidence to show Millard acted alone. The text that told Smich not to be outside when he arrived with LB, the text that said he was on a mission during the time of the murder, tells me Smich had no clue what was going down. Did he know in advance but just didn’t know the details? Maybe, but that can’t be proved at this point.

Really? So the exchange on May 28th between DM and MS about testing the incinerator with meat and bones was for a party? He knew two details, someone was going to die, and that he was going to help burn the remains. And this was before it occurred. MOO

 

[Granny707]

But now that sick sick DM has managed to get her picture published so she will forever be associated with him and this case. I feel like he is putting some pictures into the evidence JUST to accomplish this - sort of getting even with those he feels have abandoned him. Sick And we all know 'the internet is forever'. Reply to post 427 re Jen

 

[musicaljoke]

I feel the same way. He seems to want everyone to know that he is not involved. He reminds me of someone trying to prove his innocence yet he hasn’t been convicted of anything. Of course, that’s my opinion and I don’t personally know this man so it could just be his personality. He seems “put out” by being there and that in my eyes is disrespectful to the family of the victim.


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He may have been simply trying to make it clear, in unequivocal, and unambiguous terms, that he believes DM is capable of murder. He had only one brief chance to speak, and he seemed to be determined that he would be understood.

It worked. When Dr. B. left the stand, we were certain that DM is, at the very least, a liar, and very likely a murderer.

jmo

 

[Granny707]

I feel the same way. He seems to want everyone to know that he is not involved. He reminds me of someone trying to prove his innocence yet he hasn’t been convicted of anything. Of course, that’s my opinion and I don’t personally know this man so it could just be his personality. He seems “put out” by being there and that in my eyes is disrespectful to the family of the victim.


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Re post 432 - I disagree. From listening to him I would conclude that he knows a lot about DM that he can't say court, but he KNOWS him and is disgusted by him for a reason. I think the jury may see that also. They may not get to know what he knows about DM, but they will feel the disgust and understand that it has a source.

 

[Hstevenson86]

He may have been simply trying to make it clear, in unequivocal, and unambiguous terms, that he believes DM is capable of murder. He had only one brief chance to speak, and he seemed to be determined that he would be understood.

It worked. When Dr. B. left the stand, we were certain that DM is, at the very least, a liar, and very likely a murderer.

jmo

Yes! That makes more sense to me. Thank you for your view. I agree that this is probably exactly what he was doing.


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[Granny707]

I have been following this case from the beginning but, although it seemed easy to keep track of at first, there is actually a LOT of stuff. Several days ago, someone posted a listing of who had been called up to that point, and a summary of thier connection to the case. I've searched back for an hour this morning, but can't find it. Could anyone help me out? Can you refer me to the right date or post #? Thanks