Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.22.17 - Day 20

[Bluepopsicle]

This was reference to getting the correct ammo – No, referencing the barrel of the gun

LB is killed in this timeframe?? – Here phone pinged at Maple Gate til 1:00 AM, so probably dead by that point.

Did he go to the hangar to get tarp, or go get ammo? Pings during this time are important. If ammo, she may still be alive at this point. – No, Millard, Smich and LB were all at Maplegate all night.

Would DM and MS go out after if LB was there? Doesn't jive with DM wanting MS not be out front when he returned. – They didn't leave the house.

Do we know dor sure that they didn’t leave the house? Isit possible DM left for that hour without his phone? I realize that’s probably unlikely, but I run out quite a bit without mine. Could be just that I’m that forgetful however!

 

[andreww]

Your interpretations are not evidence. Just basic stuff that makes no sense when he made a video, told a friend he killed a girl and burned a body, told MM don't be out back with them, phones pinging all together. It's hard to believe you would be willing to give this individual any benefit of the doubt.

Not giving anybody any benefit of doubt. The evidence shows Smich was at Maple Gate, he lived there. The texts do not show him to be part of the plan, in fact they show the opposite. Yes he disposed of the body. His bragging to friends may have been exaggerated fo "street cred" or shock value. And his rap? Does he say he killed her? In fact, it says the last time he saw her was outside the house (smoking possibly?), when we can deduce pretty easily that she was killed in a bed.

Show me one undisputable piece of evidence that showed Smich knew in advance. Just one.

 

[andreww]

I dunno, but I’m pretty sure MS taking the stand in TB trial was what sealed his fate! I was on the fence thinking MS was innocent UNTIL he took the stand. I only believed a portion of his testimony and the rest, well that made him look guilty as hell.

JMO

Some may have believed he may have been innocent, but it takes 12. You say yourself that you were on the fence, you would have been swayed when you got in to that jury room.

 

[THXGuru]

What suggests to you that there’s evidence that MS was involved? Just that he was at the residence that night?

Phones were pinging. Confession to the friend in the garage. Rap video. Destroying the body (destroying the body). Very hard to overcome this evidence above. Also has her bag, iPad etc. All of this is not consistent of someone who was not involved in a murder. It's JMO but he would of acted otherwise if he had nothing to do with it.

 

[andreww]

Do we know dor sure that they didn’t leave the house? Isit possible DM left for that hour without his phone? I realize that’s probably unlikely, but I run out quite a bit without mine. Could be just that I’m that forgetful however!

Kids never leave without their phones. He was more likely to leave without his pants.

 

[MorningStar22]

Anyone know what “tru” is supposed to mean? I see it often in their texts. Only thing I’m coming up with that would match is “The Real Untouchables “ which is short for a rap band.

Tru is like saying “yes”, “agreed”.. along those lines. My husbands employees say it all the time and it made me feel old bc I had to ask too lol

 

[MorningStar22]

Phones were pinging. Confession to the friend in the garage. Rap video. Destroying the body (destroying the body). Very hard to overcome this evidence above. Also has her bag, iPad etc. All of this is not consistent of someone who was not involved in a murder. It's JMO but he would of acted otherwise if he had nothing to do with it.

Do we have details on the phone pings? Curious if DM & LB went to Maple Gate, picked up MS and went to the farm...

 

[MorningStar22]

"Tim Bosma killer to gun dealer: 'She'll be a dirty girl'"

"Ward-Jackson’s lawyer Kim Schofield told Justice Jane Kelly that her client never knew what Millard would do with the three guns he bought, which included a Smith and Wesson revolver and the Walther PPK 9mm, a weapon made famous by movie spy James Bond."

The make and model of the third is still unknown, at least to me. MOO

Thanks! Perhaps the 3rd is a shotgun... 🤔

 

[MorningStar22]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-millard-smich-murder-trial-day-19-1.4413299



https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ar-testimony-about-her-financial-records.html

Miranda I’m sure this is his defence angle too. Thanks for putting it together!!

 

[Inspector_North]

This was reference to getting the correct ammo – No, referencing the barrel of the gun
NOPE! read the danger of using the wrong ammo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_S&W

LB is killed in this timeframe?? – Here phone pinged at Maple Gate til 1:00 AM, so probably dead by that point. - Agreed, but I put it at during that time.

Did he go to the hangar to get tarp, or go get ammo? Pings during this time are important. If ammo, she may still be alive at this point. – No, Millard, Smich and LB were all at Maplegate all night. -Uh? Did he text before he left, and left his phone behind. I don't see activity from DM during that hour run.

Would DM and MS go out after if LB was there? Doesn't jive with DM wanting MS not be out front when he returned. – They didn't leave the house.

Yes, but MS seemed to have an urgent need to food money.

"Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash." "
"Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."

MO interpretation.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Some may have believed he may have been innocent, but it takes 12. You say yourself that you were on the fence, you would have been swayed when you got in to that jury room.

Not without his testimony. I would have stuck to innocent if he hadn’t testified.

 

[andreww]

Its funny to me that these guys were morons and dumb criminals. I disagree. I feel these guys would still be walking free today if they'd done a couple of simple things.

- worn long sleeve shirt to cover tattoo.
- used a burner to contact only ONE potential victim
- Disposed of their own phones after each crime (or at least do a secure delete)
- Did not back up their phones

I have no clue how these guys would ever have been caught if they'd done the few things.

 

[andreww]

Not without his testimony. I would have stuck to innocent if he hadn’t testified.

You just said you are on the fence prior to his testimony.

 

[andreww]

Yes, but MS seemed to have an urgent need to food money.

"Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash." "
"Jul 3 7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."

MO interpretation.

So?? What's your point? He was hungry.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Not giving anybody any benefit of doubt. The evidence shows Smich was at Maple Gate, he lived there. The texts do not show him to be part of the plan, in fact they show the opposite. Yes he disposed of the body. His bragging to friends may have been exaggerated fo "street cred" or shock value. And his rap? Does he say he killed her? In fact, it says the last time he saw her was outside the house (smoking possibly?), when we can deduce pretty easily that she was killed in a bed.

Show me one undisputable piece of evidence that showed Smich knew in advance. Just one.

Don't need indisputable evidence, just beyond a reasonable doubt.

To me it comes back to the incinerator and the need for something with bones to test. They had no need for the incinerator and before the murder MS knew they needed something with bones to test. That to me is planning a murder and it's aftermath.

 

[deugirtni]

Kids never leave without their phones. He was more likely to leave without his pants.

DM says to MS that he's out on a mission around 7:30pm... wasn't it just shortly before that (around maybe 6;30pm) that he was txtg with 'Ish' about getting some domes *that night*? I'm not sure why it is thought that DM did not leave.. did he not bring 'heini' back too, for MS? If thinking he did not leave is due to a record of his phone pings, then is it not possible that DM had another phone - because as someone mentioned, where are the txts between himself and LB in making arrangements for her to go on a trip (assuming the mystery trip provider was also DM)?

 

[deugirtni]

Don't need indisputable evidence, just beyond a reasonable doubt.

To me it comes back to the incinerator and the need for something with bones to test. They had no need for the incinerator and before the murder MS knew they needed something with bones to test. That to me is planning a murder and it's aftermath.

DM apparently was telling people about a plan to have a mobile incinerating business - whether for pets, or those who need to disappear a body. MS may have been privy to DM's big plans, but there is no indication that he knew about LB. moo.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

You just said you are on the fence prior to his testimony.

I was on the fence on if I could decide whether he was guilty or innocent of Murdering TB...BEFORE he testified. AFTER he testified, I was off that fence and my opinion changed to GUILTY. Not sure what more ya want from that? I think I’m quite clear on what I thought.

 

[loveisthemovement]

Believe me, I am no MS fan,but for once I may be in agreement with some other(s) :wink: Evidence would seem to support that MS aided in the disposing of LB but I suggest it would be tough to prove he participated in the murder. Maybe an accomplice? But I am not sure M1 is the right charge for MS in this case.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

DM apparently was telling people about a plan to have a mobile incinerating business - whether for pets, or those who need to disappear a body. MS may have been privy to DM's big plans, but there is no indication that he knew about LB. moo.

The bone stuff was with the garbage incinerator so he knew more than anyone.

Your other point stands though... Do you need to know about a specific murder and help plan for it to be culpable or is planning a murder and not knowing the specifics enough?