Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[gremlingrrl]

Millard texted Smich: “The BBQ is the last piece of the 3500 puzzle.”

Wow, why didn’t we hear that one in the TB trial?!

This!!! I was in attendance at a pre-trial motion when this was shared, and could NOT believe this was inadmissible at the Bosma trial. This is CLEAR planning. IMO this makes it obvious that murder was ALWAYS the end game in the Dodge theft.

billandrew, it's mind-blowing.

 

[JuneBug67]

This!!! I was in attendance at a pre-trial motion when this was shared, and could NOT believe this was inadmissible at the Bosma trial. This is CLEAR planning. IMO this makes it obvious that murder was ALWAYS the end game in the Dodge theft.

billandrew, it's mind-blowing.

So it’s confirmed that the text was inadmissible in Tim’s trial as opposed to just not used and later ruled inadmissible in Laura’s trial?

 

[DeaconBrodie]

I think you're right.

One of the first things that the jury needs to conclude is that LB is deceased. This is one example where he confirms it.

Technically this is not true because what is said in closing arguments is not evidence but this situation is unique because DM is defending himself and I can fully understand them looking at his slip up even though technically I isn't admissible against him.

That's one reason why jury deliberations are secret. Even if the jury uses information that they are not supposed to, it cannot be appealed because we never know what they used and didn't use in their deliberations.

 

[billandrew]

So it’s confirmed that the text was inadmissible in Tim’s trial as opposed to just not used and later ruled inadmissible in Laura’s trial?

Definitely inadmissible. Unfortunately I cannot offer a media source because it was publication-banned until now, but I was in court when the Crown pleaded the judge to reverse his ruling and allow this text after MS testified about his knowledge of the incinerator and its intended use. The Crown wanted to cross him on it to contradict his testimony. The judge stayed firm on his ruling though, IIRC citing proximity to the LB murder.

 

[Kamille]

If it was because he was taking it from the source she had to know details before hand. By the next day she would have been fully aware that Bosma and his truck were missing. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

And Smich supposedly confided in her before the wedding, so she was fully aware at that point.

Jumping off your post andreww...

I keep reading of how MM was beneficial to LE and the Crown in both trials helping to convict these two but I haven't heard any testimony that she gave that was helpful, other than the "celebratory" evidence in the Bosma trial that she decided to throw in a week before she testified. The only other evidence that was definitely going to be beneficial if it was let in was the statement that MS told her they had burned a body in the Eliminator before the TB murder. In what context would he have told her that but not have told her that they specifically burned TB's body in the eliminator on the night of the mission? Why did she offer up that tidbit of info and when did she offer it up? Must have been before this trial and not before the TB trial or we would have heard about it back then. Was it when she realized that LE knew she was at the farm and hangar the night LB was incinerated?

The list of places that she was with MS and/or DM during the planning stages and the times she was in physical and/or verbal phone contact with MS and DM during the commission of both of these murders far outnumbers the list of actual useful evidence she gave at either trial IMO.

MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

Definitely inadmissible. Unfortunately I cannot offer a media source because it was publication-banned until now, but I was in court when the Crown pleaded the judge to reverse his ruling and allow this text after MS testified about his knowledge of the incinerator and its intended use. The Crown wanted to cross him on it to contradict his testimony. The judge stayed firm on his ruling though, IIRC citing proximity to the LB murder.

Thanks! Very helpful, and very interesting.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Technically this is not true because what is said in closing arguments is not evidence but this situation is unique because DM is defending himself and I can fully understand them looking at his slip up even though technically I isn't admissible against him.

That's one reason why jury deliberations are secret. Even if the jury uses information that they are not supposed to, it cannot be appealed because we never know what they used and didn't use in their deliberations.

And so the seven, or maybe five jurors who know something of the TB murder, can share with those who don't. Could make a heck of a difference to MS outcome.

 

[redheart]

Jumping off your post andreww...

I keep reading of how MM was beneficial to LE and the Crown in both trials helping to convict these two but I haven't heard any testimony that she gave that was helpful, other than the "celebratory" evidence in the Bosma trial that she decided to throw in a week before she testified. The only other evidence that was definitely going to be beneficial if it was let in was the statement that MS told her they had burned a body in the Eliminator before the TB murder. In what context would he have told her that but not have told her that they specifically burned TB's body in the eliminator on the night of the mission? Why did she offer up that tidbit of info and when did she offer it up? Must have been before this trial and not before the TB trial or we would have heard about it back then. Was it when she realized that LE knew she was at the farm and hangar the night LB was incinerated?

The list of places that she was with MS and/or DM during the planning stages and the times she was in physical and/or verbal phone contact with MS and DM during the commission of both of these murders far outnumbers the list of actual useful evidence she gave at either trial IMO.

MOO

BBM. Just want to point out that there were things that were argued out of Tim's trial, that were still under publication ban until the jury went out in Laura's trial. I don't know if that's the case here, but it could be - also for the "3500 puzzle" text being discussed right now. MOO

 

[DeaconBrodie]

And so the seven, or maybe five jurors who know something of the TB murder, can share with those who don't. Could make a heck of a difference to MS outcome.

I'd be very surprised if that wouldn't come out some time during heated discussions.

 

[raffielle]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed but was there any mention as to where, when and why DM dropped LB off on that fateful night? It's seems strange that they have proven that her phone was pinging along side his, her last calls were to him, etc but no mention (or none that I am aware of) as to what was said about why they met up and where she went after. You'd think that might be important.

 

[Kamille]

Definitely inadmissible. Unfortunately I cannot offer a media source because it was publication-banned until now, but I was in court when the Crown pleaded the judge to reverse his ruling and allow this text after MS testified about his knowledge of the incinerator and its intended use. The Crown wanted to cross him on it to contradict his testimony. The judge stayed firm on his ruling though, IIRC citing proximity to the LB murder.

That text had nothing to do with the LB murder and everything to do with the plan to murder for a Ram 3500 truck. I can't believe it was deemed inadmissible. :notgood:

MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Why are some of you discussing CN's looks, a journalist that has nothing to do with the trial and each other?

STAY ON TOPIC and discuss this trial and the proceedings please.

Thank you

 

[Kamille]

BBM. Just want to point out that there were things that were argued out of Tim's trial, that were still under publication ban until the jury went out in Laura's trial. I don't know if that's the case here, but it could be - also for the "3500 puzzle" text being discussed right now. MOO

Yes that is possible. That would definitely have been under a publication ban for this trial if the statement was made back then. But if it was made back then, why wouldn't she have been able to say in the first trial that she was specifically told by MS that TB was burned in the Eliminator? :waitasec:

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Why are some of you discussing CN's looks, a journalist that has nothing to do with the trial and each other?

STAY ON TOPIC and discuss this trial and the proceedings please.

Thank you

Because it had to do with an article through ABro pertaining to CN and her looks and the fact that LE, judges etc are softer on them for that. So really, it was part of topic. I said I thought she was pretty and others disagreed.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

Because it had to do with an article through ABro pertaining to CN and her looks and the fact that LE, judges etc are softer on them for that. So really, it was part of topic. I said I thought she was pretty and others disagreed.

I don't think there is any question that women are treated more leniently in our justice system than men are and that just like in life, good looking people are treated more leniently than those who are not as good looking at all phases of the process.

 

[mimimic]

I don't think there is any question that women are treated more leniently in our justice system than men are and that just like in life, good looking people are treated more leniently than those who are not as good looking at all phases of the process.

Yes and it seems so hard not to get a dig in, that sounds funny (although unkind) when you feel you know the target herself is cruel (eg. the lady slipping on the ice video and CN and friend blah blah) So sorry and thanks for keeping this clean!
btw, I am gorgeous!.... almost got away with my cruelty - but you can't see me!

 

[andreww]

Jumping off your post andreww...

I keep reading of how MM was beneficial to LE and the Crown in both trials helping to convict these two but I haven't heard any testimony that she gave that was helpful, other than the "celebratory" evidence in the Bosma trial that she decided to throw in a week before she testified. The only other evidence that was definitely going to be beneficial if it was let in was the statement that MS told her they had burned a body in the Eliminator before the TB murder. In what context would he have told her that but not have told her that they specifically burned TB's body in the eliminator on the night of the mission? Why did she offer up that tidbit of info and when did she offer it up? Must have been before this trial and not before the TB trial or we would have heard about it back then. Was it when she realized that LE knew she was at the farm and hangar the night LB was incinerated?

The list of places that she was with MS and/or DM during the planning stages and the times she was in physical and/or verbal phone contact with MS and DM during the commission of both of these murders far outnumbers the list of actual useful evidence she gave at either trial IMO.

MOO

I think she plays with time, moving event around to distance herself from the actual events. Like the iPad. She's clearly using it on July 5th but she testifies that she didn't get it until the 23rd. These are things that make me wonder if she was an actual participant. So maybe she tells cops that she learned about TB just before he's arrested rather than in the truck the morning after? Its easy to lie about things like that because she knows Smich is going to deny saying it, he's not going to dispute the day he said it.

 

[canadiangirl]

I used to be on the fence with MS. I still feel DM is the ringleader in all this, it was the plan he was dragging everyone into. And although I don't feel there's enough evidence to convict of M1 in this trial for MS, I think everything coupled together with both trials, CN writing about her "sweet serial killer" etc, I just don't see how it's possible MS didn't know or help plan anything.

CJPrincess I know you were with me the last trial, after this one, what are your thoughts?

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

I used to be on the fence with MS. I still feel DM is the ringleader in all this, it was the plan he was dragging everyone into. And although I don't feel there's enough evidence to convict of M1 in this trial for MS, I think everything coupled together with both trials, CN writing about her "sweet serial killer" etc, I just don't see how it's possible MS didn't know or help plan anything.

CJPrincess I know you were with me the last trial, after this one, what are your thoughts?

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

I'm with you 100%. He's guilty, they just didn't prove it.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

I'm with you 100%. He's guilty, they just didn't prove it.

You may well be correct, but never underestimate the power of a jury to come to the correct decision notwithstanding what the law may say.