Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[ABro]

C'mon Ann, they all knew. And the text between DM/MS in the fall of 2012 speaks volumes. Something to the effect of "keeping things on the down low, cuz too many ppl kno too much already"

NO one said they weren't playing with fire. And too many people did know too much. There was a big danger they'd start putting two and two together.

But even Shawn Lerner, knowing everything he knew, didn't conclude Millard was a murderer. He just felt he needed to be investigated.

The friends were ok with thieving, but murder is a very big leap away from property theft.

ETA: If these people had known, Smich and Millard probably would have talked about the need to keep them silent not the need to prevent them from catching on because they already too much.

 

[BettyCooper]

The dynamic between the two accused is really interesting. Regardless of how distant they appeared in the courtroom, which is clearly an act for the sake of their respective legal interests, their relationship was fairly codependent. It's obvious that MS admired DM & heavily relied on him for things like work, drives, groceries & even a place to stay. However, I keep seeing people questioning what DM got out of the deal. Was MS just the guy he kept around to do his dirty work or was there more to their relationship?

In my opinion, MS meant just as much to DM as DM did to MS. DM needed MS around to stoke his ego & solidify the persona he'd created for himself. This persona of an affluent, handsome, playboy type of guy. But let's face it, DM is nothing special in the looks department & isn't nearly as wealthy as he pretends to be. If DM was hanging around the rich kids of Toronto, no one would be impressed. But he wasn't. He was hanging around with losers who were easily charmed & made him feel good about himself. & one of those losers just so happened to be going for the tired old Etobicoke gangster persona, writing ****** raps about guns & drugs. These two posers fed into each others' fantasies & encouraged the worst in one another.

After the TB trial, I was convinced it was just the beginning for these creeps. The amount of attention that was given to assembling a transportable incinerator coupled with the "we're gonna do big things" texts & the strange desire to share pictures of the whole thing sealed the deal for me. DM & MS enjoyed killing LB & they enjoyed getting away with it. Whether it was bad parenting or drug use or just too much time sitting around playing video games, we may never know. But DM & MS were having fun playing this game & they'd just gotten started. Everything in the WTJDH articles pretty much confirms it. Luckily for us, they weren't half as smart as they thought they were & when DM's finished playing lawyer, they'll both be going back to playing inmate for the rest of their lives!

I'm just praying that "another dead deer on the farm" doesn't mean what I think it does & that, after the WM trial, these guys will return to irrelevance.

 

[Georgeo]

Positive thoughts for LB's family. Hope jury makes the correct decision on verdicts......M1.

 

[winter2017]

Igor's noticing the "ambition" tattoo was the big break in the case. I'm not sure on what basis you can say that Millard would have been caught soon after even without Igor.

IT is what lead the police to DM, maybe later on they would have had evidence to go after Millard , but it was the speed they were able to thanks to Igor. If they did not catch DM quickly more evidence could have been destroyed.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
Hank and Mary #Bosma have arrived to support #LauraBabcock family during this jury watch.

When I read this today, my heart burst wide open, as well as the flood gate of tears. I wept for the Bosma family and I wept for the Babcock family and there was no way I could respond at the time. God bless Hank and Mary and their dedication to providing support and comfort to others who are still, to this very day, feeling the loss and the pain they're also feeling.

 

[Jealoushe]

Maybe the logs on that slide were in reference to chopping up the body. Since there was a line from CN about that. Then he needed the Oxys to get high enough to cut apart the next part of the body. Then the pieces are cooking in the next pic.

That's a pretty morbid picture but I think that is the level they were on.

 

[Grey-St]

When I read this today, my heart burst wide open, as well as the flood gate of tears. I wept for the Bosma family and I wept for the Babcock family and there was no way I could respond at the time. God bless Hank and Mary and their dedication to providing support and comfort to others who are still, to this very day, feeling the loss and the pain they're also feeling.

Thank you for being so candid, and showing such complete empathy for the victims and their loved ones. I think I speak for all of us here when I say we share your sentiment. For myself, I can say that I've had days that I've been so profoundly affected by the senselessness and utter horror of these crimes, that I've had to stop what I'm doing, and have a good cry also. I think it's easy for us to see ourselves as TB or LB. A father trying to sell his truck, and young woman trying to find her way. It ignites the "it could have been me" narrative. I'm in Toronto, and at the moment we have some other extremely tragic missing persons/murder cases taking place, that only furthers this sentiment.

Bless Hank and Mary, indeed, for showing such compassion for another family sharing in their loss and pain. It takes a lot of strength to get up in the morning and go show that kind of solidarity with others when you're likely hurting so badly. If we can be so affected by these murders, I can only imagine how it is for them.

 

[canadiangirl]

That seems very likely. Apart from the “I love you Bro” text which was more like him saying DM was like a father figure to him.

I accidentally text the wrong people all the time. It’s really embarrassing. I’m glad my life is pretty boring!

If you review this one DM telling MS he loves him isn't a mistake... Ironically I got an autocorrect to BJ lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ECVuTqhbGnA

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[jash]

CN's "limbs cut off without hesitation" note immediately made me think of the "chopping wood" text that came out in the other trial, which led me to the below posts.

I forgot how good the Crown was in that case. It's a shame neither of them took the stand this time around.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:21 AM Now from June 6, 2012. Smich texts Millard: "I'm lookin at a mobile one right now. Some chopping wood be necessary. It's called thermal treatment. The heat generated by incineration can be used to generate electric power."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:22 AM "You sir, are talking about the incineration," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:23 AM "You're putting your two cents worth in on this homemade incineration plans," Fraser says. "I must have done some research and that's what came up in the research," Smich says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM "You don't have an interest in that incineration device because it burned garbage. You couldn't care less about it ... Mr. Smich, it's just another element of the plan," Fraser says.

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:24 AM Smich says "No sir."

Adam Carter
May 24 2016 11:25 AM Fraser asks what SMich meant about "chopping would be necessary." Smich says he doesn't recall. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. "No sir," Smich says.

 

[JuneBug67]

CN looks pretty.... pretty guilty. Esp after seeing some of the disallowed evidence.
Way more than a casual involvement in especially the LB murder, but also aware of the TB outcome...

Reminded of the song... http://www.metrolyrics.com/she-aint-pretty-lyrics-northern-pikes.html

The song that Christina ruins for me is the Tragically Hip’s ‘Apartment Song’. Not really, cause I love it, but I always think of her with the line “She’s the horrible aesthete”. It’s that combination of a terrible, ugly personality and the superficial aesthetic of things like her IG. Ugh.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I used to be on the fence with MS. I still feel DM is the ringleader in all this, it was the plan he was dragging everyone into. And although I don't feel there's enough evidence to convict of M1 in this trial for MS, I think everything coupled together with both trials, CN writing about her "sweet serial killer" etc, I just don't see how it's possible MS didn't know or help plan anything.

CJPrincess I know you were with me the last trial, after this one, what are your thoughts?

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I’m off the fence, M1 is my prediction this time. I think MS knew DM was going to kill LB. Partialy my gut feeling and partially trial evidence. I don’t think there would be any question to his guilt for anyone if all this “what the jury didn’t hear” was allowed. IMO, DM and MS didn’t hold back with each other. Brothers in love! They say opposites attract? Well you got the rich guy dangling the carrots in front of the poor guy. MS was sick of being broke, wanted to be all gangsta, didn’t want to work a real job, would rather steal what he wanted and earn his fast cash from whatever job DM wanted him to do. Even kill!

No matter how open minded I’ve been, I just can’t say MS isn’t guilty this time. Maybe it’s due to TB or my gut or evidence but it’s my verdict of M1. I was on the fence till the crown started with text messages. If those were left out, I’d say innocent. DM was handy at photoshopping so the MS incinerator pic could be argued. His rap song, again, could be just that....a rap he did for DM using DMs story of the girl he killed.

I also don’t believe that MS never met LB. he lived with DM or was always with him. IMO, Just more lies spewed canadiangirl.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Meneses knew on May 6, 2013 that Smich and Millard had plans to steal a truck, the jury has heard. And the next morning, they told her that their "mission" had been successful.
She'd begged Smich not to do it, she says. She thought it was a stupid idea — Millard was rich, she figured. He had no reason to steal a truck.
Smich, on the other hand, needed money. Millard knew that, she says, and she thought he was "using" him.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...girlfriend-says-millard-made-sexual-advances/

Menses said very little other than what she claimed MS told her about who shot TB. The "celebratory" information got added a week before the trial but she claims that neither of them said a thing about the theft or the murder during that car ride. If we go back to her testimony, she said very little of what she saw and heard or overheard about anything criminal. Most of her testimony in the TB trial was about how she met MS, her life with him and was only negative towards DM with regards to the murder. She wants everyone to believe that in the entire time she lived with MS, she never overheard or was involved in any "mission" conversations or any conversations about two murders and incinerations, one of which she actually attended. She provided no testimony about anything she saw or heard in that entire time. She didn't smell anything "off" the night they allegedly picked up a body that had been lying in a hot barn for almost three weeks. Nothing.

She was constantly with them. She was with them before, during and after the LB murder. She was with them before and after the TB murder. The last person MS spoke to on his phone before the murder was her. She revealed not one thing about anything she had ever been privy to.

IMO, it defies logic to believe she didn't know everything that was going on or that MS never confided anything in her other than DM shot TB while they were trying to steal a truck. Even the information about the illegal border smuggling and shooting guns at the farm was dragged out of her by DM in this trial. Did she ever tell LE about any of that?

I don't believe she was forthcoming at all with regards to her interviews and testimony on both of these murders. She only gave information that was not incriminating to her and showed "remorse" for not going to LE right away with that limited information and instead waited until they arrested her. At which time she told them things that incriminated DM only.

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I'm not sure where you get the idea she "begged" Smich not to go. I went back to my notes from the trial and this was what was said after Fraser asked her what she said about the plan to steal the truck.

rsbm bbm

Maybe your notes don’t have it but this article does.

Meneses knew on May 6, 2013 that Smich and Millard had plans to steal a truck, the jury has heard. And the next morning, they told her that their "mission" had been successful.
She'd begged Smich not to do it, she says. She thought it was a stupid idea — Millard was rich, she figured. He had no reason to steal a truck.
Smich, on the other hand, needed money. Millard knew that, she says, and she thought he was "using" him.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...girlfriend-says-millard-made-sexual-advances/

 

[Stumper]

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...girlfriend-says-millard-made-sexual-advances/

Menses said very little other than what she claimed MS told her about who shot TB. The "celebratory" information got added a week before the trial but she claims that neither of them said a thing about the theft or the murder during that car ride. If we go back to her testimony, she said very little of what she saw and heard or overheard about anything criminal. Most of her testimony in the TB trial was about how she met MS, her life with him and was only negative towards DM with regards to the murder. She wants everyone to believe that in the entire time she lived with MS, she never overheard or was involved in any "mission" conversations or any conversations about two murders and incinerations, one of which she actually attended. She provided no testimony about anything she saw or heard in that entire time. She didn't smell anything "off" the night they allegedly picked up a body that had been lying in a hot barn for almost three weeks. Nothing.

She was constantly with them. She was with them before, during and after the LB murder. She was with them before and after the TB murder. The last person MS spoke to on his phone before the murder was her. She revealed not one thing about anything she had ever been privy to.

IMO, it defies logic to believe she didn't know everything that was going on or that MS never confided anything in her other than DM shot TB while they were trying to steal a truck. Even the information about the illegal border smuggling and shooting guns at the farm was dragged out of her by DM in this trial. Did she ever tell LE about any of that?

I don't believe she was forthcoming at all with regards to her interviews and testimony on both of these murders. She only gave information that was not incriminating to her and showed "remorse" for not going to LE right away with that limited information and instead waited until they arrested her. At which time she told them things that incriminated DM only.

MOO

Wow Kamille! Excellently put. I agree 100%

 

[hopingforjustice]

Kamille If I could like this twice I would. Totally my thoughts
This young thing got caught up in a very tangled web and just told "us" what she wanted us to know. Yes I am happy she turned her life around. Thank God actually. Who knows who she may have hooked up with next if not for that.

But in saying that, because someone turns their life around does not exonerate them from their guilty past. If that was the case, do we lesson MS sentence? He has apparently done the same while incarcerated.

Legally I guess they had nothing on her. Morally she is sentenced to life with what she knew and did not do IMO. I hope that haunts her for a very long time. As with several others in this case who got swept into the offer of bright lights.

Perhaps its time our laws got addressed to make it a crime to not report knowledge of a crime. I don't know..just thinking out loud.

Only good thing I can honestly respect in MM is that she had the good sense to dislike both DM and CN. Too bad she was blinded by MS to see his bad side too!

 

[andreww]

There is zero evidence that anyone but Noudga, Smich and Millard knew of Laura's fate. Zero. I really don't understand the compulsion to insist that "they all knew."

At the very least they should have suspected something. AM questioned Millard about it early. MM heard Smich’s rap and probably could have put 2 & 2 together. There was also a text between Millard and Smich expressing concern that too many people knew and that they had to keep it on the down low. Sometimes saying nothing speaks volumes. They knew that a onetime member of their clique was missing and none of them mention her?


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[clefk27]

At the very least they should have suspected something. AM questioned Millard about it early. MM heard Smich’s rap and probably could have put 2 & 2 together. There was also a text between Millard and Smich expressing concern that too many people knew and that they had to keep it on the down low. Sometimes saying nothing speaks volumes. They knew that a onetime member of their clique was missing and none of them mention her?

I get the sense that an essential part of the 'thrill kill' was that others needed to know (at least a little bit of) what was going on. When DM's cousin asks what he's been up to, why a need to reply with "Smuggling drugs killing hookers", unless DM wanted to portray that aura of 'murderous toughness and coolness' that he and MS so relished. Same reason why MS had to brag about 'killing a girl and burning her body' to the teens in the garage.
A demented sense of self worth to be sure. But that's who we're dealing with.
The fact that MS asked MM to leave the garage tells me that he did make some effort to hide these things from her. But only willful blindness or utter stupidity could explain how she hadn't clued in by the time TB was murdered. The fact that she was still excited about marrying MS at the sister's wedding, proves that love is not only blind but deaf and dumb as well.

 

[Stratocaster]

At the very least they should have suspected something. AM questioned Millard about it early. MM heard Smich’s rap and probably could have put 2 & 2 together. There was also a text between Millard and Smich expressing concern that too many people knew and that they had to keep it on the down low. Sometimes saying nothing speaks volumes. They knew that a onetime member of their clique was missing and none of them mention her?


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100% agreed, a certain few probably knew right away after the July 3/4 days in question. Then, as 3/4/5 weeks go by, and absolute zero contact from LB, who left her electronic footprint everywhere, no doubt it would be the hot topic of discussion amongst the circle of friends. What other 15yr old friends, besides the ones that testified, did Smich tell? Quite obvious he couldn't keep his mouth shut. And as for LB's girlfriend's, in a common friends circle with CN, there's no doubt in my mind that the canary's started singing after a while within that group also. Maybe not right away in early July, but everybody knew shortly after. People just are not that stupid imo.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...girlfriend-says-millard-made-sexual-advances/

Menses said very little other than what she claimed MS told her about who shot TB. The "celebratory" information got added a week before the trial but she claims that neither of them said a thing about the theft or the murder during that car ride. If we go back to her testimony, she said very little of what she saw and heard or overheard about anything criminal. Most of her testimony in the TB trial was about how she met MS, her life with him and was only negative towards DM with regards to the murder. She wants everyone to believe that in the entire time she lived with MS, she never overheard or was involved in any "mission" conversations or any conversations about two murders and incinerations, one of which she actually attended. She provided no testimony about anything she saw or heard in that entire time. She didn't smell anything "off" the night they allegedly picked up a body that had been lying in a hot barn for almost three weeks. Nothing.

She was constantly with them. She was with them before, during and after the LB murder. She was with them before and after the TB murder. The last person MS spoke to on his phone before the murder was her. She revealed not one thing about anything she had ever been privy to.

IMO, it defies logic to believe she didn't know everything that was going on or that MS never confided anything in her other than DM shot TB while they were trying to steal a truck. Even the information about the illegal border smuggling and shooting guns at the farm was dragged out of her by DM in this trial. Did she ever tell LE about any of that?

I don't believe she was forthcoming at all with regards to her interviews and testimony on both of these murders. She only gave information that was not incriminating to her and showed "remorse" for not going to LE right away with that limited information and instead waited until they arrested her. At which time she told them things that incriminated DM only.

MOO

Witnesses can't talk about things the judge says is admissible.

The LB murder happened months before she was asked about it. If she didn't notice anything outside of the norm that night she isn't going good to remember anything about it. Do you remember what you were doing some night in April this year?

 

[don_quixote]

The song that Christina ruins for me is the Tragically Hip’s ‘Apartment Song’. Not really, cause I love it, but I always think of her with the line “She’s the horrible aesthete”. It’s that combination of a terrible, ugly personality and the superficial aesthetic of things like her IG. Ugh.

That's what happens when someone who was born to eat lard suddenly finds herself in a city with paved streets. And the next natural thing is that she meets a Mil - lard. Everything has significance in this world, everything is connected.