Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[canadiangirl]

Wow you are quick! I was just joking around and you still posted before me! Good job.

That is interesting info you found there. Do you think there’s a possibility there??

I don't know. Someone above suggested maybe they were intimate.
I suppose anything is possible.
All MOO

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[canadiangirl]

I'm thinking that it COULD have been a text intended for MM instead (if there was only one?)

Yes there is that possibility also.. There were other texts if you look at BillAndrews timeline like I love you mi negro, etc. Between the two of them.


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[Alice Ramnit]

I missed it earlier but understand that the Jury asked for additional transcripts today. Does anyone know which part of the trial they were asking about?

 

[Shaz14]

I'm thinking that it COULD have been a text intended for MM instead (if there was only one?)

That seems very likely. Apart from the “I love you Bro” text which was more like him saying DM was like a father figure to him.

I accidentally text the wrong people all the time. It’s really embarrassing. I’m glad my life is pretty boring!

 

[Shaz14]

I missed it earlier but understand that the Jury asked for additional transcripts today. Does anyone know which part of the trial they were asking about?

Originally they only got 6 copies of the transcripts of the charge because there was a problem with the court printer (the story of my life...I hate printers). So they asked for the remaining 6 copies.

Then they asked for the closing statements, but those aren’t ready yet.

 

[hopingforjustice]

I just heard a defense attorney stating on CP24 that he very surprised that Judge Code has allowed the closing statement to be handed over to the jury for review. His reasoning is that a "closing and opening statement" is not evidence. Its a thought process or theory of each defendant and the Crown and as such not proven facts for the jury to use as their determining factors.

I hear what he is saying, MO is I guess as long as the jury uses the closing statement to revisit the testimonies for validation it would make sense but if they take the closings as gospel, I can see where that may be a problem.

 

[canadiangirl]

I just heard a defense attorney stating on CP24 that he very surprised that Judge Cole has allowed the closing statement to be handed over to the jury for review. His reasoning is that a "closing and opening statement" is not evidence. Its a thought process or theory of each defendant and the Crown and as such not proven facts for the jury to use as their determining factors.

I hear what he is saying, MO is I guess as long as the jury uses the closing statement to revisit the testimonies for validation it would make sense but if they take the closings as gospel, I can see where that may be a problem.

I wonder if they are deliberating DM's closing like we all were.

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[Jasper52]

I missed it earlier but understand that the Jury asked for additional transcripts today. Does anyone know which part of the trial they were asking about?

They want more copies of the judge's 300+ page charge. The jury also wants a copy of the transcript of all three closing statements, from the crown, Millard and Smich.

 

[Just4TB]

Or even "wood" can be used to mean penis... I wonder if MS and DM had ever been intimate.

When LB asked DM if he wanted a threesome, she indicated that MMF was his favourite... so yeah, it is possible that MS and DM might have "crossed swords" a few times.

From Billandrew timeline...

Babcock texts Millard: "What r u sayin tonight?"Babcock texts Millard: "Threesome?"
Millard texts Babcock: "lol mmf, mfm, ffm, fmf, fff, or mmm?"
Babcock texts Millard: "Haha."
Babcock texts Millard: "Mmf."
Babcock texts Millard: "No mfm haha."
Millard texts Babcock: "haha mmf."
Babcock texts Millard: "Ur favv."

 

[canadiangirl]

When LB asked DM if he wanted a threesome, she indicated that MMF was his favourite... so yeah, it is possible that MS and DM might have "crossed swords" a few times.

From Billandrew timeline...

Yes that's right. I remember that now. Thank you

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[Shaz14]

I just heard a defense attorney stating on CP24 that he very surprised that Judge Cole has allowed the closing statement to be handed over to the jury for review. His reasoning is that a "closing and opening statement" is not evidence. Its a thought process or theory of each defendant and the Crown and as such not proven facts for the jury to use as their determining factors.

I hear what he is saying, MO is I guess as long as the jury uses the closing statement to revisit the testimonies for validation it would make sense but if they take the closings as gospel, I can see where that may be a problem.

I can that point of view but it was all said in court in front of the jury so isn’t still fair game?

 

[Georgeo]

IMO it's discouraging to see key evidence excluded from the trial. I realize that the judge was likely trying to prevent grounds for appeal, but still, just very discouraging.

I'm kind of sickened by some of this, especially since it could affect the outcome.

It is like evidence tampering. Refusing to allow jury to see EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE is wrong! Screw the possible appeal. It's not like the evidence was not real or planted. These are texts about killing hookers and "merk" people!!!!!

 

[Alice Ramnit]

When LB asked DM if he wanted a threesome, she indicated that MMF was his favourite... so yeah, it is possible that MS and DM might have "crossed swords" a few times.

From Billandrew timeline...

:thud:

How did I miss this???

 

[ABro]

ABro, why do you think MM begged Smich not to go on the TB mission? .

I'm not sure where you get the idea she "begged" Smich not to go. I went back to my notes from the trial and this was what was said after Fraser asked her what she said about the plan to steal the truck.

Meneses: I already told them don't go but no one listened to me, but I had plans to go to my sister's house.

Fraser: Did you do anything else to discourage [the plan]?

Meneses: Yeah I said something to him to try and change his mind but nothing changed his mind.

Obviously they had been on many of them before, so what made that one different? The only explanation could be that she had some prior knowledge about what was happening.

There's no record of her reaction to previous thieving missions or even if she knew about them. There's no basis whatsoever to claim her reaction to the planned truck theft was different.

This girl was present at LBs murder.

She was in the same house at the time the murder allegedly took place. That's all we know. Smich could have told her to stay in her room. She may have had headphones on and been stoned.

She was present for her cremation. She was with DM and MS as they returned from murdering/cremating TB. What did she have to tell us about any of these events? They seemed happy? My feeling is that she is telling the truth but that she is omitting anything that shows her prior knowledge.

That they seemed happy is a pretty whopping big piece of evidence. And again, there is absolutely nothing that indicates she had any prior knowledge of a murder. This is a leap you make based on your belief she was "begging" and that she had acted differently at prior thefts, but I see no evidence to support either of these hypotheses.

I don't care what anyone says, if a boyfriend admits to his girlfriend that he has killed and burned two people, she should run and not announce her plans to marry the guy.

Agree 100%. She had very bad judgment when it came to Smich.

That in itself shows me the kind of person she is, and those are the kinds of traits that you cannot change in a person. Either you know right from wrong or you don't. But when you are a cute little girl you can fool a lot of people with a few tears.

She was completely besotted with Smich. In her mind he was the sophisticated older guy who rescued her from her troubled home life. Due to her weird sense of "loyalty," she stuck by him until his arrest and even after it. She was deluded and in denial and she did bad things because of it.

YOu are free to think what you want of her but it's highly unlikely the jury at the Bosma trial shared your view that she is a liar. Her evidence was key to the conviction.

I don't respect what she did in her relationship with Smich, but I do respect her for the way she has turned her life around and what I believe to be her honest testimony at both trials.

 

[ABro]

Wow, what does anyone make out of CN's comments of "limbs cut off without hesitation" I wonder if these were rambling notes/comments, or she was provided a detailed description from DM of what actually physically took place with the night of TB murder. And another thing, it just makes me want to SCREAM at the top of my lungs that roughly 10 months passes by between the LB/TB murders, without anyone in that dirty little circle of friends saying a thing. They ALL knew about LB fate.

There is zero evidence that anyone but Noudga, Smich and Millard knew of Laura's fate. Zero. I really don't understand the compulsion to insist that "they all knew."

 

[ABro]

The fact that when he was arrested he yelled at MM "don't tell them anything" or something like that, tells me she knows LOTS

Yeah she did know lots and she told the courts about it over several days in the witness box.

 

[ABro]

Agreed. My point wasn't that Jennings broke the case. My point was that if Igor hadn't identified the tattoo, DM still would have been identified fairly soon after. There were suggestions on here that if not for Igor, DM would have killed more people. I'm not saying Jennings was a saint; I just think DM would have been caught soon enough even without Igor's tip.

Igor's noticing the "ambition" tattoo was the big break in the case. I'm not sure on what basis you can say that Millard would have been caught soon after even without Igor.

 

[ABro]

Jumping off your post andreww...

I keep reading of how MM was beneficial to LE and the Crown in both trials helping to convict these two but I haven't heard any testimony that she gave that was helpful, other than the "celebratory" evidence in the Bosma trial that she decided to throw in a week before she testified. The only other evidence that was definitely going to be beneficial if it was let in was the statement that MS told her they had burned a body in the Eliminator before the TB murder. In what context would he have told her that but not have told her that they specifically burned TB's body in the eliminator on the night of the mission? Why did she offer up that tidbit of info and when did she offer it up? Must have been before this trial and not before the TB trial or we would have heard about it back then. Was it when she realized that LE knew she was at the farm and hangar the night LB was incinerated?

The list of places that she was with MS and/or DM during the planning stages and the times she was in physical and/or verbal phone contact with MS and DM during the commission of both of these murders far outnumbers the list of actual useful evidence she gave at either trial IMO.

MOO

Meneses gave plenty of valuable evidence about the nature of the relationship between Smich and MIllard, about what happened before the truck theft, about what happened when the police were closing in, and her most important evidence about Millard and Smich wanting to celebrate just hours after the murder.

Back during the Bosma trial, Smich sympathizers pulled out all the stops to try and discredit Meneses claiming she was a liar and an attention seeker. But it didn't work then and the current attempts to discredit her and minimize the importance of her testimony at the Bosma trial are unlikely to change what most people think of her.

 

[redheart]

Shannon Martin‏
@ShannonMartinTV

Jury has wrapped for the evening, deliberations begin again at 9 am ET #LauraBabcock

 

[Stratocaster]

There is zero evidence that anyone but Noudga, Smich and Millard knew of Laura's fate. Zero. I really don't understand the compulsion to insist that "they all knew."

C'mon Ann, they all knew. And the text between DM/MS in the fall of 2012 speaks volumes. Something to the effect of "keeping things on the down low, cuz too many ppl kno too much already"