Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[NoodlesMcgee]

Reading that text message brings chills because it was sent so far before the TB murder. No urgency to kill someone almost like it's another task on his to do list to get to when he has time.

The thrill seeking murderer is at least something you can wrap your head around.

 

[winter2017]

He wanted a truck. He could use it for multiple purposes at different times. He might have "needed" it more in spring 2013. I don't think you should look at these things as mutually exclusive.

IT was a thrill kill , they killed Tim Bosma not for the truck but a thrill kill.
They killed Laura also for the thrill of it, they got off on murdering people they celebrated when they murdered and if you look at any photos of them they look very happy about it.

 

[ABro]

Reading that text message brings chills because it was sent so far before the TB murder. No urgency to kill someone almost like it's another task on his to do list to get to when he has time.

The thrill seeking murderer is at least something you can wrap your head around.

And yet, we've seen how strongly people resist the idea including the judge in this case. He called it a weak secondary motive and said the conventional love triangle motive was much more comprehensible.

The crown wanted to argue that Smich and Millard were thrill seeking serial killers. Unfortunately they had to play the hand they were dealt.

 

[Oreck]

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...n-what-the-laura-babcock-jury-wasnt-told.html

DM bought it as a present for WM, and then, in November 2012, after much anticipation, he finally "gave it to him".

I always keep thinking when I see the pic of WMJ with a piece pointed in his eye and a wad of dollars that there is more to it that we don't know.
And then he got it tattooed on his head?
I wonder why he sits without sentencing.
Seems there's more here to come.

 

[Kamille]

Do we know for sure that it was disallowed in the Bosma trial? Or was it just disallowed in this trial? Sorry...I didn’t read this at the source so I’m not sure.

I don't recall that text making it into the TB trial. Which is where it would be expected to be considered very relevant. But I could be wrong. They started planning for the theft of the Ram 3500 around Jan 2012. That's when all the talk of "next level stuff", "taking things from the source" and DM's wish list text of the truck, a boat and equipment for MS's rap career started. That's when they started to acquire the guns and ask SS to fashion a homemade incinerator. My theory has always been that DM wanted the truck for the 2012 Baja race. That didn't happen, partly due to obligations regarding Millard Air, but the urge to carry out the plan didn't end. And apparently, according to this text, getting the Eliminator in July 2012 was the last piece of the puzzle. But again, the plan was put on the back burner because he didn't need the truck until the spring of 2013 for the next Baja race. Which is when he stole TB's and killed him.

So while the text might show the jury in this trial that the Eliminator was purchased to burn human remains, in order for them to make that connection, they would have to have been told about the murder of Tim Bosma. So that's why it didn't make it into this trial. The judge disallowed any information regarding that case so this text would make no sense with the motive they were forced to put forward.

MOO

 

[Stumper]

And yet, we've seen how strongly people resist the idea including the judge in this case. He called it a weak secondary motive and said the conventional love triangle motive was much more comprehensible.

The crown wanted to argue that Smich and Millard were thrill seeking serial killers. Unfortunately they had to play the hand they were dealt.

This makes me angry 😡

I hope for Mr Codes sake that this doesn’t end up being his second deal with the devil. Or in this case Say10 and D Man

 

[JuneBug67]

I don't recall that text making it into the TB trial. Which is where it would be expected to be considered very relevant. But I could be wrong. They started planning for the theft of the Ram 3500 around Jan 2012. That's when all the talk of "next level stuff", "taking things from the source" and DM's wish list text of the truck, a boat and equipment for MS's rap career started. That's when they started to acquire the guns and ask SS to fashion a homemade incinerator. My theory has always been that DM wanted the truck for the 2012 Baja race. That didn't happen, partly due to obligations regarding Millard Air, but the urge to carry out the plan didn't end. And apparently, according to this text, getting the Eliminator in July 2012 was the last piece of the puzzle. But again, the plan was put on the back burner because he didn't need the truck until the spring of 2013 for the next Baja race. Which is when he stole TB's and killed him.

So while the text might show the jury in this trial that the Eliminator was purchased to burn human remains, in order for them to make that connection, they would have to have been told about the murder of Tim Bosma. So that's why it didn't make it into this trial. The judge disallowed any information regarding that case so this text would make no sense with the motive they were forced to put forward.

MOO

There seems to me to be very, very little overlap in the texts used in each trial. If we don’t know for sure it was disallowed in the Bosma trial I think it’s a possibility that they just didn’t use it, but instead left it such that it could be used in this trial in the way the Crown attempted to use it. It seems the text evidence was fairly neatly carved up such that each Crown could argue that the incinerator was purchased for the crime they were prosecuting, It would have been harder to argue that in this case if the incinerator had been definitely declared the last piece of the 3500 puzzle 18 months ago.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I think it's very, very likely that the jury will accept the Crown's contention that Laura was murdered on July 3/4 and that she was incinerated on July 23rd. Given that, if the jury had information that the purchase of the incinerator was meant for another crime and not part of a plan to murder Laura for the reasons the Crown contend, Smich in particular could benefit and Millard could at least credibly demonstrate that the Crown's theory was wrong in an important way. There would still be other huge hurdles to clear obviously, but it would have thrown the Crown's theory on motive in the dustbin, which is frankly where I've always thought it belonged.

It's all just thinking out loud anyway, because obviously defense lawyers who know the law and the collective mind of a jury much better than I went a very different way. I can just say that I would have found that argument credible were I juror. I think the absence of that evidence allows the crown to create an artificial narrative about motive and planning that stems only from the fact that the keys texts when isolated from other information occur sequentially in time.

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. I believe that I understand now. [emoji4]

It is a shame that the Crown ended up using that motive. If I am surmising correctly from all the “what the jury doesn’t know” articles, the Crown fought hard to introduce evidence that pointed to an entirely different motive.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So it seems that MM knew a whole lot more than what was let on in court. SMH

I’ve said this from when she was introduced into the TB trial. They are ALL liars and that whole circle knew way more then testified to! More then a few people jumped on me for it but that was the impression I got back then.

JMO

 

[swedie]

If they were interested in pet cremation, the smaller unit would have sufficed. DM opted for the 500 lb. unit.
DM also told SS about 2 incineration jobs he had lined up in Barrie. No evidence was ever given to back up this obvious lie. In totality, the pet cremation alibi only makes sense as a cover story for their (meaning both DM and MS) more sinister intentions.

And the fact DM had SS build him a pathetic incinerator...seriously?! So was DM planning on attaching that thing to a trailer and driving it around doing business cremating peoples' pets? Just absurd and we know his full intentions for an incinerator was to dispose of anyone who bothered him or stood in his way of getting what he wanted.

What is troubling is the fact SS smelled something horrific suggestively coming from that incinerator in August. LB had been completely cremated July 23, and that is pretty apparent by seeing those photos of a few bones. Whose remains were in the incinerator in August? Sadly LE can investigate further into missing peoples' cases, but if these vile creatures picked up some random person, murdered and cremated them, no one would be the wiser to connect DM to them. If there was absolutely no evidence of LB's remains found, the same would be the end results for any random person they could have picked up off the streets of any city.

MS is just as guilty as DM. Just because we only heard bits and pieces via text messages and a rap song, and photos of him grinning in front of that incinerator, don't let that fool anyone into thinking he might not have been equally involved. Remember, MS lived with DM and they hung out quite often over how many years. Imagine all the talk and evil scheming that went on while they were together. They were stupid, but not that stupid knowing anything they put in text "could" be used against them "should" they ever get caught...thus the reason for some "code" texts.

Personally I think MM knows more than she is letting on. To admit that now in a court of law would be disastrous for her and her future...unless she hitched up to CN's wagon, which I'm not so sure CN herself will have such a happily ever after life she is hoping for. Karma has a way of dealing with people such as these characters...it's just a matter of time. They will all pay the piper in due time, in some way or another.

IMO we will all be blessed when the first degree murder verdicts comes in for both of these disgusting creatures. They are off the streets, out of society forever. ALL MOO.

 

[Horror]

After reading through today I am even more confused as to why CN was not charged with anything at all. And the jury didn't hear info while not surprising is just horrid.
Also thank you to all tweets and posts - we have some really knowledgeable people here and it's always great to read through, I appreciate everyone's input and ideas


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[hugsherman]

Horror, I just want to say hi to a fellow Antipodean ... I'm in NZ so I get where you are coming from with the time lag.

 

[ab-initio]

I am a grown-*advertiser censored* person and I woke up at midnight from a nightmare, rather suddenly and violently, involving these people.
My dreams are always very vivid, but generally pleasant.

I've invested myself in this trial for various reasons ... but all I could think about was the jury members, and how they feel going to bed each night. Or the prosecution, knowing all that they know. The reporters, the judge, even the defence team .... anyone with a conscience for what is moral and good -- I hope the demons don't follow them forever.

 

[ABro]

Personally I think MM knows more than she is letting on. To admit that now in a court of law would be disastrous for her and her future...unless she hitched up to CN's wagon, which I'm not so sure CN herself will have such a happily ever after life she is hoping for. Karma has a way of dealing with people such as these characters...it's just a matter of time. They will all pay the piper in due time, in some way or another.

IMO we will all be blessed when the first degree murder verdicts comes in for both of these disgusting creatures. They are off the streets, out of society forever. ALL MOO.

Marlena Meneses is nothing like Christina Noudga. Meneses showed genuine remorse and testified honestly. I believe she is in large part responsible for the first degree murder verdict for Smich in the Bosma case. The Crown replayed her testimony over and over at that trial because they understood how genuinely powerful it was. Say what you will about her smiling at Smich's sister's wedding, she did the right thing in the end and appears to have learned her lesson and gotten her life on track

Her initial lies to police -- that she didn't know about the incinerator -- are understandable IMO. She wanted to distance herself from an appalling crime. It was the same thing she did with the gun on the witness stand at this trial before correcting herself almost immediately. She is ashamed. She is nothing like Noudga, who has never shown an ounce of remorse and never done the right thing.

Likewise, Michalski was nowhere near as bad as Smich. Millard sensed this too. Although he groomed Michalski for years and the latter was willing to run thieving missions, he wasn't willing to murder. Only Smich was.

That gang was filled with amoral people with no sense of right and wrong but they weren't all "just as bad." There are degrees. I don't believe anyone but Noudga knew Millard and Smich wanted to kill people and actually did.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Question for you all.... what do you think DM did with his old mattress? (The one he replaced so urgently on July 4)


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[clefk27]

How does TD sleep at night knowing the vile scum that he’s pleading on behalf?

 

[JPC]

Here is a link to an article that contains a video from CTV News for CN's reference to DM as my sweet serial killer https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/jurors-i...-never-heard-of-tim-bosma-s-murder-1.3718409#


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[JuneBug67]

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain. I believe that I understand now. [emoji4]

It is a shame that the Crown ended up using that motive. If I am surmising correctly from all the “what the jury doesn’t know” articles, the Crown fought hard to introduce evidence that pointed to an entirely different motive.

I would suspect they probably wanted to imply all the motives and not one instead of the other. In the Bosma case the Crown argued that they killed for a truck and for the thrill.

 

[billandrew]

What is troubling is the fact SS smelled something horrific suggestively coming from that incinerator in August. LB had been completely cremated July 23, and that is pretty apparent by seeing those photos of a few bones. Whose remains were in the incinerator in August? Sadly LE can investigate further into missing peoples' cases, but if these vile creatures picked up some random person, murdered and cremated them, no one would be the wiser to connect DM to them. If there was absolutely no evidence of LB's remains found, the same would be the end results for any random person they could have picked up off the streets of any city.

RSBM. According to DM’s cell tower pings, he never visited his farm between July 23 and early September. That would suggest that whatever SS saw/smelled in late August had been left in there since July 23.

 

[Inspector_North]

CN is named in the Bosma civil suit. If CN decides to live the remainder of her life outside of Canada, what restrictions will this have on CN if the Bosma's are successful? Can she come back for visits, etc.?