Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[THXGuru]

I think it is worth considering that drug abuse may have had a role to play in the murders. For example cocaine overuse can lead to erratic and violent behavior. Also, in some cases, cocaine addicts may experience “cocaine psychosis” in which they become detached from people, activities, and, in some instances, reality.

We know too that methamphetamines can lead to violent behaviour. These guys were taking multiple drugs over a long period. It's well documented that continuous drug use of some types of drugs can lead to violence.

https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/news/what-are-psychological-effects-of-drug-abuse/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651438/

You make some valid points. However, the broader criminal conspiracy that they planned, the planning of the murders, the relationship MS kept with MM, the relationship DM kept with all of his friends and CN, the bigger picture of DMs life such as the condo sales, his employees who worked at the hanger, his firing of employees all suggest otherwise. MS regardless of his drug could of not taken part on the planning and execution of their plan to murder LB and TB.

 

[andreww]

Why all the speculation? It was put forth in court and Justice Code even cites it in the sentencing. The motive for DM was to remove LB as she was getting in between DM and CN.

Based on what little evidence there was about that, yes it could have been because of her problems with CN. Its possible, but its not definite. I don't think the crown was worried much about the motive, they had one that was good enough. However, phone records for the period leading up to here murder show that it was Millard contacting LB more than her calling him. The fact that there is no info about the proposed trip tells me that we simply don't have all the information.

Besides that, there is the one incident between CN and LB. They both got their shots in. Nothing after that for several months. In fact Millard appears to break up with CN at one point. So to me I am not convinced that was the actual motive. It may be, I'm just not sure.

 

[andreww]

You make some valid points. However, the broader criminal conspiracy that they planned, the planning of the murders, the relationship MS kept with MM, the relationship DM kept with all of his friends and CN, the bigger picture of DMs life such as the condo sales, his employees who worked at the hanger, his firing of employees all suggest otherwise. MS regardless of his drug could of not taken part on the planning and execution of their plan to murder LB and TB.

Not saying that drugs blurred their decision process at all. I am saying that long term drug use was likely a factor in putting themselves in that position. Many bad decisions by both of them led them to that place, and if either of them had clearer heads in the years prior, they likely wouldn't have been where they are now.

 

[Typhoo1961]

The biggest factor was Millard's access to money and the finer things in life

When was chunky soup and goldfish crackers the finer things in life?

 

[ABro]

Why all the speculation? It was put forth in court and Justice Code even cites it in the sentencing. The motive for DM was to remove LB as she was getting in between DM and CN.

That's not true. Here's what he said:

Millard formed a motive to kill Ms. Babcock, expressed in graphic terms in the April 2012 text messages with his girlfriend, Christina Noudga. This motive arose because Ms. Babcock was causing difficulties in Millard’s relationship with Ms. Noudga. However, there was a further and more complex motive that was operating at the same time, namely, Millard and Smich had entered into a broad conspiracy that involved guns, various crimes, and killing. I excluded some of the evidence relating to this broad conspiracy, not because it lacked relevance but because it was highly prejudicial. Some of this evidence was admitted at trial after editing, some is found in the Motion Records, and some was filed in the sentencing materials. See, e.g., R. v. Millard and Smich, 2017 ONSC 5928 (CanLII), where some of this evidence is discussed in the context of a pre-trial Motion. The two motives became tied up together when the two accused engaged in the building, testing, purchase, and preparation of an incinerator that was used to dispose of bodies. Both of these two motives coincided in the spring and early summer of 2012 and they became the reasons why Millard and Smich killed Ms. Babcock;

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/d...bWlsbGFyZCBzbWljaCAyMDE4AAAAAAE&resultIndex=3

What Code most definitely did not mention as a motive or driving force, however, is drug use. While I'm sure it didn't help the situation, I do agree that using drugs as an all purpose excuse often borders on apologism, especially when paired with a description of Smich -- the man who two juries have convicted of first degree murder and who a judge decided to sentence consecutively -- as a "young, dumb 24-year-old."

 

[andreww]

When was chunky soup and goldfish crackers the finer things in life?

Seriously? The guy had many cars, properties, helicopter, yet he'd never held a real job. Food isn't everything, and I'm sure he was eating out most of the time, thus he only needed snacks at home.

 

[SnooperDuper]

What Code most definitely did not mention as a motive or driving force, however, is drug use. While I'm sure it didn't help the situation, I do agree that using drugs as an all purpose excuse often borders on apologism, especially when paired with a description of Smich -- the man who two juries have convicted of first degree murder and who a judge decided to sentence consecutively -- as a "young, dumb 24-year-old."

I thought the idea that these two had been abused and therefore went on to kill was outright apologism.

I figure Smich spent a decade getting baked and fantasizing about being gangster and gradually warped his own mind. That's just not good mental hygiene, to brew in your most violent thoughts by habit and under the influence.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Seriously? The guy had many cars, properties, helicopter, yet he'd never held a real job. Food isn't everything, and I'm sure he was eating out most of the time, thus he only needed snacks at home.

All that stuff DM had didn't look too fine to me but I'm not easily impressed.

 

[andreww]

I thought the idea that these two had been abused and therefore went on to kill was outright apologism.

I figure Smich spent a decade getting baked and fantasizing about being gangster and gradually warped his own mind. That's just not good mental hygiene, to brew in your most violent thoughts by habit and under the influence.

Agreed, getting baked and spending hours a day running missions on video games. I believe that reality and fantasy just became blurred for the both of them. At some point these two losers asked themselves "what are we good at?". Running missions on video games? Lets do that for a living!

 

[andreww]

All that stuff DM had didn't look too fine to me but I'm not easily impressed.

Not sure what would impress you then. Large house, apartment unit, farmhouse, airport hangar, distillery condo, another house that his ex lived in, probably a dozen cars, baja races, exotic vacations.... and you don't think he was living the high life?

 

[JuneBug67]

I thought the idea that these two had been abused and therefore went on to kill was outright apologism.

I figure Smich spent a decade getting baked and fantasizing about being gangster and gradually warped his own mind. That's just not good mental hygiene, to brew in your most violent thoughts by habit and under the influence.

Seeking to understand human nature and the evolution of any given life is hardly apologism. Some posters are satisfied to neatly tie the killers up with a monster bow, and others simply feel more curiosity than that. Neither approach is inherently wrong, and not one of us can definitely know what elements led to any of it.

 

[swedie]

Most serial killers who were, or claimed to have been sexual abuse as a child, there are "typically" sexual components attached to their murders. Personally I see no correlation in the victims DM chose. Yes, I believe DM chose their victims and MS was just a tag along who had much to gain by being DM's side kick; the thrills, a friend, money, drugs, a place to live, a job, the promise of a rap career and whatever else DM was encouraging him with, to go along with his nefarious plans. Without DM, MS was a much of nothing, going nowhere in life loser. A resume of petty crimes, drugs and the gun connection is what turned DM onto MS. DM was likely taught throughout his life that the sky is the limit, to go for whatever he wanted...he disregarded his moral compass while doing so. IMO don't see either one as being victims of sexual abuse, but perhaps victims of being coddled and spoiled in inappropriate ways most of their lives. People either excusing or ignoring them for their inappropriate behaviours and did not hold them accountable for poor life decisions and transgressions. Let's just be grateful they are now being held accountable for past transgression and indiscretions in the strictest form allowable, according to our judicial system. ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

And should be be surprised to find out MS is appealing the sentenced handed down to him for the murder of LB. http://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/109217

 

[redwing7225]

And should be be surprised to find out MS is appealing the sentenced handed down to him for the murder of LB. http://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/109217

Just came to post this. I may have said a couple choice words as it came on the news. [emoji34]


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Kamille]

Smich's grounds for appeal, written in four bullet points, all in capital letters, reads: the "verdict was unreasonable; misapprehension of the evidence; errors of law;" and "consecutive sentence too harsh."

Babcock's mother scoffed at Smich's reasons.

"The appeal is expected," Linda Babcock told The Canadian Press. "I don't think he's going to get very far."

Appeal Court documents show Smich filed his inmate notice of appeal on Feb. 27, one day after a courtroom erupted into cheers and a standing ovation as he and Millard were sentenced for Babcock's murder.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ck-trial-first-degree-murder-appeal-1.4576580

 

[nuff]

Most serial killers who were, or claimed to have been sexual abuse as a child, there are "typically" sexual components attached to their murders. Personally I see no correlation in the victims DM chose. Yes, I believe DM chose their victims and MS was just a tag along who had much to gain by being DM's side kick; the thrills, a friend, money, drugs, a place to live, a job, the promise of a rap career and whatever else DM was encouraging him with, to go along with his nefarious plans. Without DM, MS was a much of nothing, going nowhere in life loser. A resume of petty crimes, drugs and the gun connection is what turned DM onto MS. DM was likely taught throughout his life that the sky is the limit, to go for whatever he wanted...he disregarded his moral compass while doing so. IMO don't see either one as being victims of sexual abuse, but perhaps victims of being coddled and spoiled in inappropriate ways most of their lives. People either excusing or ignoring them for their inappropriate behaviours and did not hold them accountable for poor life decisions and transgressions. Let's just be grateful they are now being held accountable for past transgression and indiscretions in the strictest form allowable, according to our judicial system. ALL MOO.

Completely agree - except I do not believe DM ever had a moral compass. (And that would get us in to the whole free will - determinism debate ...)

 

[Typhoo1961]

Not sure what would impress you then. Large house, apartment unit, farmhouse, airport hangar, distillery condo, another house that his ex lived in, probably a dozen cars, baja races, exotic vacations.... and you don't think he was living the high life?

That is all simply stuff. Anyone can have 'stuff'.

 

[Grey-St]

Not sure what would impress you then. Large house, apartment unit, farmhouse, airport hangar, distillery condo, another house that his ex lived in, probably a dozen cars, baja races, exotic vacations.... and you don't think he was living the high life?

Sure, he was living the high life. However, I agree with Typhoo, that doesn't impress me one bit. What impresses me is how someone treats others, what their intentions are, what values, beliefs, and attitudes they hold. DM would have been the least impressive person to me.

 

[andreww]

That is all simply stuff. Anyone can have 'stuff'.

Um, no, they can't.

 

[andreww]

Sure, he was living the high life. However, I agree with Typhoo, that doesn't impress me one bit. What impresses me is how someone treats others, what their intentions are, what values, beliefs, and attitudes they hold. DM would have been the least impressive person to me.

Thats not the point I was getting at. I said he lead a privileged life, which he certainly did. Typhoo disagreed and I pointed out all the possessions that he had. I'm not going to debate this because its pretty obvious that Millard was privileged. You guys can argue it out all you want, but trying to reason that the rich kid wasn't privileged is a waste of time.