Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[JuneBug67]

Hard to believe TPS didn't thoroughly investigate the weapon in the first place? The things money can buy.... or convey...

Yes...or convey. Great expression of that idea.

 

[winter2017]

TPS are not looking good these days. Ruling WM a suicide, failing to investigate LB disappearance, and now news that they had Bruce McArthur in their clutches and let him go. Seems like there are a lot of lives that didn't need to end if TPS had been a little more diligent.

If they would have investigated Laura s disappearance it is very likely Tim Bosma would not have had to die. They did nothing absolutely nothing even with someone providing phone records of the last person to hear from her. DM must have felt so much more empowered to know the police did nothing about Laura s disappearance.

 

[tmar]

It kind of amazes me that this question is being asked in the media and some legal circles, even with the superficially reasonable rationale. We're a civilized country who cares for its citizens. Yes, we have to prosecute homicides. All of them. And when we don't or can't prosecute serious crimes like this, there has be be some action in its place. Bernardo for example was designated as a dangerous offender in lieu of prosecuting the rapes he acknowledged. We don't have that option for Millard, so yeah, we have to prosecute a potential third murder.

"AND" possibly how many more, that we don't know about "YET"!!!
With the information now made public, 'what else was DM up to, with his buddies, over the years'?

 

[THXGuru]

I think many people underestimate the effect that intoxicants (toxic substances=poisons) have on a person’s thinking. Their on-going use changes a person’s thinking, feelings and behaviours.

Imagine drinking poison every single day from the age of say, 15 through 25. Imagine the downward spiral in thinking, reasoning and decision-making. Any mood-altering substance changes a person, even the THC in cannabis or Magic Mushrooms is another example of an hallucinagen.
A substance is used to help change a mood, to get excited, to come down, to get up, to sleep, to get excited, to change perception and so on.

Add to that everything else going on during those formative years (the brain developing until age 25, understanding sexuality, video-gaming, becoming an adult and on and on) and we have a cocktail of unpredictable actions that can, and do, take place. Substance (ab)use has become so normalized that we no longer question their impact.

I absolutely believe it plays a huge factor in people’s behaviour, just as trauma, family dynamics, abuse, and the list goes on.

There are millions of Canadians that use illegal drugs on a daily basis who don’t plan and conspire to kill people. The idea that drug use is some sort of explanation is absurd. Mark Smich chose to do drugs and became addicted, he also chose to conspire, kill, and destroy the bodies of two human beings. He knew what he was doing. He knew right from wrong but still chose to do what he was doing. I doubt MS remembers most of the details, however under the influence of drugs and alcohol does not excuse certain types of behaviour.

 

[Kamille]

"Should we prosecute killer Dellen Millard for third time?"

Isn't this trial kind of important to determine the wrongful death civil suits moving forward? I assume the Bosma's suit is on hold awaiting the end to all his criminal trials? I know it doesn't matter if he has any money or not, it's just the principle of it, which is why MS is also named. So I assume the civil suit is just waiting for a time when DM is available to be questioned? And perhaps the Babcocks are debating launching a civil suit of their own? If the Crown chose not to pursue this final murder case, does that mean that DM has officially and legally inherited all WM's assets and therefore he'd have to use them to pay out any amounts that may be awarded to his victims in civil suits? :waitasec:

 

[Forest_Wood]

There are millions of Canadians that use illegal drugs on a daily basis who don’t plan and conspire to kill people. The idea that drug use is some sort of explanation is absurd. Mark Smich chose to do drugs and became addicted, he also chose to conspire, kill, and destroy the bodies of two human beings. He knew what he was doing. He knew right from wrong but still chose to do what he was doing. I doubt MS remembers most of the details, however under the influence of drugs and alcohol does not excuse certain types of behaviour.

Who said it was offered as an explanation? It’s one piece of the bigger picture. People who use drugs don’t think straight.

 

[deugirtni]

TPS are not looking good these days. Ruling WM a suicide, failing to investigate LB disappearance, and now news that they had Bruce McArthur in their clutches and let him go. Seems like there are a lot of lives that didn't need to end if TPS had been a little more diligent.

It's scary to wonder how many more instances there might be of TPS, (and any police service for that matter, which may not have come to light yet), failing to perform basic due diligence in cases. Tough to imagine that the sudden death of a wealthy man committing suicide with no apparent history of suicidal tendencies, with a single heir as beneficiary, with whom he was living at the time, would not have been checked out for such basic things as gun registration/ownership, prints/DNA, logistics/positioning of the fatal wound, matching bullet to weapon, GSR on both the victim AND the beneficiary who also happened to be the person to 'find' the body and make the 911 call... even if it was a supposed 'obvious suicide'.

It seems obvious now from reports, that the gun wasn't checked out until *after* the TB murder. It is easy to see how DM must have felt such empowerment to keep on going, murdering whoever may have gotten in his way, and support in his belief that he was of superior intelligence. Is there no oversight on police reports and investigations? It seems like there is more due diligence performed on simple real estate transactions and the hiring of employees. Will there be some kind of inquest to determine how so much fell through the cracks? Did the B family include TPS in their civil suit?

 

[SnooperDuper]

There are millions of Canadians that use illegal drugs on a daily basis who don’t plan and conspire to kill people. The idea that drug use is some sort of explanation is absurd. Mark Smich chose to do drugs and became addicted, he also chose to conspire, kill, and destroy the bodies of two human beings. He knew what he was doing. He knew right from wrong but still chose to do what he was doing. I doubt MS remembers most of the details, however under the influence of drugs and alcohol does not excuse certain types of behaviour.

But you would say he chose drugs, not used them to self-medicate after experiencing sexual abuse, which was the debate earlier.

I personally believe both Smich and MIllard experienced serious abuse as children...serial killers almost always come from situations where they were abused, often sexually, as children.

 

[THXGuru]

Who said it was offered as an explanation? It’s one piece of the bigger picture. People who use drugs don’t think straight.

It is not part of any bigger picture. Drug use and alcohol dependence have no relation to this. It should not even be discussed. Drug or alcohol do excuse ones actions.

 

[THXGuru]

But you would say he chose drugs, not used them to self-medicate after experiencing sexual abuse, which was the debate earlier.

Yes he chose to use drugs. Why and for what reason he chose these drugs is not open to discussion. The reasons for drug or alcohol use do explain why he chose to murder two individuals.

 

[Forest_Wood]

It is not part of any bigger picture. Drug use and alcohol dependence have no relation to this. It should not even be discussed. Drug or alcohol do excuse ones actions.

Are you the authority here who determines what is and is not to be discussed? You seem hostile and it makes me uncomfortable. Please don’t respond to my posts again. I’m not interested in your opinion. Thank you.

 

[THXGuru]

Are you the authority here who determines what is and is not to be discussed? You seem hostile and it makes me uncomfortable. Please don’t respond to my posts again. I’m not interested in your opinion. Thank you.

The drug use by MS and his alcohol abuse were not a cause of his decision to murder two LB or TB. There is no bigger picture. Sometime killers are just killers. There is no explanation sometimes.

You make it sound like alcohol and drug use are an excuse for this behaviour.

 

[andreww]

The drug use by MS and his alcohol abuse were not a cause of his decision to murder two LB or TB. There is no bigger picture. Sometime killers are just killers. There is no explanation sometimes.

You make it sound like alcohol and drug use are an excuse for this behaviour.

Are you saying that if Millard and Smich had never in their lives touched alcohol or drugs, that they still would have committed these crimes? I disagree with you. I don't think it is "the" factor, but it is one of many, including a lack of adult supervision, and playing violent video games. The biggest factor was Millard's access to money and the finer things in life without having to have a real job. As the old saying goes, "Idle hands are the devil's workshop".

 

[THXGuru]

Are you saying that if Millard and Smich had never in their lives touched alcohol or drugs, that they still would have committed these crimes? I disagree with you. I don't think it is "the" factor, but it is one of many, including a lack of adult supervision, and playing violent video games. The biggest factor was Millard's access to money and the finer things in life without having to have a real job. As the old saying goes, "Idle hands are the devil's workshop".

Yes. I believe if either of them never touched drugs they would of still done what they did. MS had the unfortunate luck of meeting DM. MS was motivated by the gangster lifestyle and street cred he gained by the murders. He was also a follower of DM. DM wanted LB gone for reasons having to do with his girlfriend, the thrill kill notion and DM wanted the 3500. There was also the much larger criminal conspiracy that involved various crimes as well as drugs. MS was part of the planning. He had multiple opportunities to not be involved in either murder. His voluntary drug use was not a factor in his inability to not go through with the planning and murders of both LB and TB.

 

[andreww]

Yes. I believe if either of them never touched drugs they would of still done what they did. MS had the unfortunate luck of meeting DM. MS was motivated by the gangster lifestyle and street cred he gained by the murders. He was also a follower of DM. DM wanted LB gone for reasons having to do with his girlfriend, the thrill kill notion and DM wanted the 3500. There was also the much larger criminal conspiracy that involved various crimes as well as drugs. MS was part of the planning. He had multiple opportunities to not be involved in either murder. His voluntary drug use was not a factor in his inability to not go through with the planning and murders of both LB and TB.

But you are assuming that things would have been the same if they didn't use drugs. First off, Millard and Smich would never have met, as it was through Smich's drug dealing that this happened. One would also assume that Millard would have had more gainful employment if he wasn't dealing drugs for a living. Millard would have never had access to Isho if it weren't for Smich's drug connections.

I believe their urge to kill was a product of massive drug use, years of violent gaming, lack of adult role models, and basically being funded to not work by WM.

 

[andreww]

Yes. I believe if either of them never touched drugs they would of still done what they did. MS had the unfortunate luck of meeting DM. MS was motivated by the gangster lifestyle and street cred he gained by the murders. He was also a follower of DM. DM wanted LB gone for reasons having to do with his girlfriend, the thrill kill notion and DM wanted the 3500. There was also the much larger criminal conspiracy that involved various crimes as well as drugs. MS was part of the planning. He had multiple opportunities to not be involved in either murder. His voluntary drug use was not a factor in his inability to not go through with the planning and murders of both LB and TB.

BBM. I'm not 100% sure that I buy this. I know many have jumped to this conclusion because there doesn't seem to be any other explanation. However, I think there is much information that we are not privy to. We know what texts said but we do not know what was said in person or what was said during phone calls. We know that LB was in the midst of starting her own escort business. That might have required cash, and who better to go to than Millard? I feel that LB may have been extorting Millard in some way, possibly trying to get him involved in her escort plan. We never saw any info about the supposed trip to vegas or Disneyworld that LB bragged about, so what else was said that we don't know about?

 

[THXGuru]

BBM. I'm not 100% sure that I buy this. I know many have jumped to this conclusion because there doesn't seem to be any other explanation. However, I think there is much information that we are not privy to. We know what texts said but we do not know what was said in person or what was said during phone calls. We know that LB was in the midst of starting her own escort business. That might have required cash, and who better to go to than Millard? I feel that LB may have been extorting Millard in some way, possibly trying to get him involved in her escort plan. We never saw any info about the supposed trip to vegas or Disneyworld that LB bragged about, so what else was said that we don't know about?

Why all the speculation? It was put forth in court and Justice Code even cites it in the sentencing. The motive for DM was to remove LB as she was getting in between DM and CN.

 

[THXGuru]

But you are assuming that things would have been the same if they didn't use drugs. First off, Millard and Smich would never have met, as it was through Smich's drug dealing that this happened. One would also assume that Millard would have had more gainful employment if he wasn't dealing drugs for a living. Millard would have never had access to Isho if it weren't for Smich's drug connections.

I believe their urge to kill was a product of massive drug use, years of violent gaming, lack of adult role models, and basically being funded to not work by WM.

IMO. This is offensive to the family and victims. So why don’t you just say if DM was not born? MS would not of met DM.

My comments about the drug use earlier were that MS had the choice not to participate in murder. The drugs he was doing did not cause him to do it. Nor should even presume they did.

 

[musicaljoke]

Why all the speculation? It was put forth in court and Justice Code even cites it in the sentencing. The motive for DM was to remove LB as she was getting in between DM and CN.

I believe that was the crown's explanation on the motive, based on whatever sense they could make of the evidence that was allowed in court, but the real motive was not disclosed by the killers.

 

[musicaljoke]

IMO. This is offensive to the family and victims. So why don’t you just say if DM was not born? MS would not of met DM.

My comments about the drug use earlier were that MS had the choice not to participate in murder. The drugs he was doing did not cause him to do it. Nor should even presume they did.

I think it is worth considering that drug abuse may have had a role to play in the murders. For example cocaine overuse can lead to erratic and violent behavior. Also, in some cases, cocaine addicts may experience “cocaine psychosis” in which they become detached from people, activities, and, in some instances, reality.

We know too that methamphetamines can lead to violent behaviour. These guys were taking multiple drugs over a long period. It's well documented that continuous drug use of some types of drugs can lead to violence.

https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/news/what-are-psychological-effects-of-drug-abuse/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651438/