Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[MrsThreadgoode]

You come on. Smiling and/or mugging for a camera is such a strong reflexive response that you need an active reason for it NOT to happen. What would that reason be in this case? Smich was there, and he did it. Because he wanted to be there, and he wanted to do it. What in those facts would prevent him from acting as people normally act in front of a camera?

We know he incinerated Laura, and we know that he didn't do that in a state of sober reflection. We know he wrote a rap about it. We know there's no indication he was morally troubled by any of it. That's about all I'm confident in knowing. Many seem to be comfortable knowing exactly what he was thinking and feeling and what that smile meant in some pretty fine detail.

IMHO, that the photo was even TAKEN is of huge significance. I disagree that it was a reflexive smile just because many people normally smile in a photo. That the picture was taken in front of the incinerator on the very night that Laura was incinerated (perhaps while she was being incinerated) AND that MS has that gloating smile on his face is extremely telling.

Also, JuneBug you state “We know he incinerated Laura, and we know he didn’t do that in a sober state of reflection.” To me that is a very curious statement, and can mean a couple of different things, so perhaps I am not clear on what your original thought was.

How do we know that when he incinerated Laura he wasn’t in a “sober state of reflection.” I think he was quite aware of what he was doing. By sober, do you mean his head was clouded by drugs? Well, he had been using drugs for years and years and possibly his body became somewhat tolerant of them. That cannot and should not be used as an excuse. It was his choice. He may have been drugged but he was obviously functioning and knew what he was doing.

All the texts that were introduced into evidence, and the ones that “the jury didn’t know” confirm my personal belief that MS and DM were fully aware that they were going to commit murders, incinerate bodies, and planned that, and WANTED to do that. BOTH of them. That IS a sober reflection of thought for both DM and MS in my mind.

MOO


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[mimimic]

Yes, I believe this is the first we are hearing of this, Inspector, but I could be wrong.


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A little more than a week ago it was mentioned, during deliberations. What the jury didn't hear.
I commented that I wondered if he had PJ's on. ( I said that because for some reason I believe it seems odd- someone wouldn't commit suicide not dressed in clothes)

12-12-2017 Verdict Watch was a 2:00 pm post, page 14 on WS, story shared by redwing 7225 Shannon Martin's what the jury didn't hear bbm

 

[Typhoo1961]

You believe that TB threw his own phone out of his truck window?

That's an interesting thought; one I'd never considered. But I don't believe it follows the timeline of events as a plausible happening. Particularly because not only is it described as being powered down, but it is tossed after the time at which Crown alleges the murder happened.

Snipped from billandrew's timeline:

May 6 | 9:47 pm | Pickup truck and SUV arrive at 585 Oak Park Rd, Brantford, stop along shoulder of road.
May 6 | 10:01pm | Pickup truck and SUV depart 585 Oak Park Rd, Brantford.
May 6 | 10:01pm | Tim Bosma phone accesses data in Brantford.
May 6 | 10:02pm | Tim Bosma phone shut off in Brantford.
May 6 | 10:20pm | Approx. time Bosma's wife calls him, call goes straight to voicemail.

I think that was when TB was shot and killed. Between 9:47 and 10:00 pm.
Gut feeling.

 

[clefk27]

I sure hope you’re right! Specially for TB! But I do think he seen it coming and I believe he tossed his own phone out the truck window.

Why would TB toss his own phone out the truck window? That makes no sense. If he felt threatened by the 2 men, his phone would be one of his few defenses.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Is there any news article to say that DM did not want to be present for the sentencing.?

It was stated in the journalists’ tweets after the jury verdict was announced. I read all the newspaper articles but can’t remember if it was stated in those or not. I remember the tweets, though, but don’t know how to search for them in the threads in Tapatalk.


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[FastLikeLight]

It was stated in the journalists’ tweets after the jury verdict was announced. I read all the newspaper articles but can’t remember if it was stated in those or not. I remember the tweets, though, but don’t know how to search for them in the threads in Tapatalk.

I think it was reported wrongly. First from what was written looked that he would be absent in sentencing. Then others reported that he would be represented by a true lawyer, meaning that he (DM) would be not a layer anymore in his case.
Is it even possible to be absent in sentencing for M1?

 

[ABro]

I think it was reported wrongly. First from what was written looked that he would be absent in sentencing. Then others reported that he would be represented by a true lawyer, meaning that he (DM) would be not a layer anymore in his case.
Is it even possible to be absent in sentencing for M1?

MIllard said after the verdict that he didn't want to attend the sentencing and would like to send a lawyer in his place. He wanted to get back to the pen, which is way more comfortable for prisoners than jails.

Code told him he would have to bring a motion to absent himself from the sentencing and he would decide whether or not to approve it.

Either way, he told Millard he should have a lawyer represent him because consecutive sentences are new and complex.

I wasn't there earlier this week, but it seems as if Millard might have given up on the idea of not attending the sentencing since it should have been raised on Wednesday, and no one's reported anything about t.

 

[nuff]

I think it was reported wrongly. First from what was written looked that he would be absent in sentencing. Then others reported that he would be represented by a true lawyer, meaning that he (DM) would be not a layer anymore in his case.
Is it even possible to be absent in sentencing for M1?

I don't believe a convicted murderer can opt out of appearing at their sentencing hearing. It has been reported that, for both sentencing and the WJM trial, DM will be represented by Ravin Pillay, one of his defence counsel at the TB trial. MS will have Dungey for the sentencing hearing. (It keeps being said that Dungey is retiring, but it now appears he may be intending a federal Supreme Court challenge on the constitutionality of consecutive life sentences.)

 

[ABro]

I don't believe a convicted murderer can opt out of appearing at their sentencing hearing. It has been reported that, for both sentencing and the WJM trial, DM will be represented by Ravin Pillay, one of his defence counsel at the TB trial. MS will have Dungey for the sentencing hearing. (It keeps being said that Dungey is retiring, but it now appears he may be intending a federal Supreme Court challenge on the constitutionality of consecutive life sentences.)

Dungey doesn't tend to do the legal arguments stuff. It's his co-counsel Jennifer Trehearne who handles almost all of that. I'm not sure if he'll pass it off to her completely or stick around. He told reporters he planned on never setting foot in a courthouse again.

 

[dar107]

I read here that DM had some girlfriends present in the courthouse. Im just wondering if inmates serving life sentences are allowed to get married. I’ve heard that there are women that correspond with prisoners, but is marriage allowed? This is just idle curiosity.

Yes, I have attended a wedding in jail. Even had other prisoners stand as "best man" and witnesses. Complete with a flowered arch, and allowance to bring in chinese food for the after "party" The bride (who brought her friend as maid of honor) stayed for a "trailer visit" after we left.

 

[don_quixote]

A little more than a week ago it was mentioned, during deliberations. What the jury didn't hear.
I commented that I wondered if he had PJ's on. ( I said that because for some reason I believe it seems odd- someone wouldn't commit suicide not dressed in clothes)

12-12-2017 Verdict Watch was a 2:00 pm post, page 14 on WS, story shared by redwing 7225 Shannon Martin's what the jury didn't hear bbm

PJs are more important for women. Generally, women tend to choose suicide methods that don't maim or lead to unsightly results. Source: a book I read 20 or so years ago. May be things changed with the influx of millennials.

 

[winter2017]

I hope people have found my contributions to be worthwhile. I guess some on another forum thought my comments were so spectacular they wanted me to unblock them so they could read them.,hahahaha. I am not a professional like some on here, but in the first trial one person on another forum told some of us that we were crazy to believe a verdict of M1 would happen to DM because of reasonable doubt.
I had never followed a crime case on line before so I wondered if he was right. I maintained it would be a M1 verdict.
When it was a M1 verdict I realized this guy who called us all crazy and we did not know what we were talking about , that he was the one that was out to lunch.
Now with two verdicts of M1 to both of them I am more confident with my ability to after reading the evidence to come to a conclusion.
I never once questioned that the blue tarp was not a body or questioned the rap song by MS was not about Laura s murder.
Obviously the jurors also agreed with the crown .
In the first trial I did think at some points listening to MS testify that he was telling the truth and that DM murdered Tim Bosma, then I learned that it did not matter who actually shot Tim Bosma because if someone assists they are also guilty of M1.
I have learned a lot from following these trials about evidence and legal arguments. It is valuable to understand because when you encounter people like the person who told us we were all crazy to believe the crown has proven their case in the Tim Bosma case you can ignore them.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

From what i gather DM does not like the holding cells he is in at Toronto West (I think that's where i read they have been holding him for the trial) and just wants to get back to his routine and comforts of home (Millhaven)

His tiny styrofoam balls are housed there.

 

[JPC]

I can't quite place Isho's accent in that video. It is beyond ridiculous.


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[mimimic]

I can't quite place Isho's accent in that video. It is beyond ridiculous.


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It's only learned at charm school. You need special bracelets to get in there

 

[Grey-St]

It's only learned at charm school. You need special bracelets to get in there

Handcuffs?

 

[mimimic]

?don't get it

His tiny styrofoam balls are housed there.

 

[ab-initio]

I think that was when TB was shot and killed. Between 9:47 and 10:00 pm.
Gut feeling.

I believe it was argued that it happened either shortly after leaving the Bosma residence in Ancaster, or during the time you described (I think MS testimony supported your assertion?)

Either way, both assertions support that the murder happened before the phone was tossed.

If it was near the Bosma residence ... I shudder because it is so chillingly close to their family home; so sad.
If it was at the Oak Park Rd location ... I shudder because that location is a mere 5km from my home.

Either way ... it chills me to the bone that evil was so close to so many unsuspecting people.
I think that's what really haunts so many unconnected people that have become so invested in this case.

I remember when I heard of TB being found thinking that "there had to be more to this that we don't know!" -- I thought perhaps TB was mixed up in something that his family didn't know about (business, marital or otherwise) ... by no means was I intending to blame the victim, but I just could not fathom that such a horrible occurrence could be so random. There had to be another reason that would reason out some of the sheer shock of it all.
But it was random. And I, like so many others, was mortified ... and related to it and was personally affected because it really could have been any one of us.

I'm thankful that LE in TB's case was so effective, and stopped these guys in their tracks. In doing so, they were able to correct some of the wrongs relating to LB, and give her family an iota of closure.

So senseless.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

You believe that TB threw his own phone out of his truck window?

That's an interesting thought; one I'd never considered. But I don't believe it follows the timeline of events as a plausible happening. Particularly because not only is it described as being powered down, but it is tossed after the time at which Crown alleges the murder happened.

Snipped from billandrew's timeline:

May 6

10:01 pm

Tim Bosma phone accesses data in Brantford.

Bosma Day 3: Jackson testimony

May 6 | 9:47 pm | Pickup truck and SUV arrive at 585 Oak Park Rd, Brantford, stop along shoulder of road.
May 6 | 10:01pm | Pickup truck and SUV depart 585 Oak Park Rd, Brantford.
May 6 | 10:01pm | Tim Bosma phone accesses data in Brantford.
May 6 | 10:02pm | Tim Bosma phone shut off in Brantford.
May 6 | 10:20pm | Approx. time Bosma's wife calls him, call goes straight to voicemail.

May 6	10:01 pm	Tim Bosma phone accesses data in Brantford.	Bosma Day 3: Jackson testimony
	May 6	10:02 pm	Tim Bosma phone shut off in Brantford.	Bosma Day 3: Jackson testimony
	May 6	10:20 pm	Approx. time Bosma's wife calls him, call goes straight to voicemail.	Bosma Day 1: Sharlene Bosma testimony

Edited to add:
The timeline also reveals that Bosma's phone was found May 9 at 1:30pm at Kemira, while grass was being cut.
Kemira is a business in Brantford; address 626 Oak Park Road.

Address numbers increase in the direction of travel they were taking, so it stands to reason that the phone was accessed, shut off, and thrown out moments after pulling away from the shoulder at 585 Oak Park Rd.

Ya, I get the crown alleged TB was shot moments after they pulled out of TBs driveway but I’m not sure I agree with that timing. I actually think he was restrained and they were going to kill him at that farm. Something went wrong, maybe TB started fighting back and that’s when he got shot. They pulled over and moved body to back box and carried on to the farm. I honestly do not think TB was supposed to be shot inside the pickup truck.

So with my thinking and your information, I guess it doesn’t fit the timeline if addresses go up in route of travel. That, I didn’t know.

 

[clefk27]

Ya, I get the crown alleged TB was shot moments after they pulled out of TBs driveway but I’m not sure I agree with that timing. I actually think he was restrained and they were going to kill him at that farm. Something went wrong, maybe TB started fighting back and that’s when he got shot. They pulled over and moved body to back box and carried on to the farm. I honestly do not think TB was supposed to be shot inside the pickup truck.

So with my thinking and your information, I guess it doesn’t fit the timeline if addresses go up in route of travel. That, I didn’t know.

That is a wild theory. Restrained? Maybe TB started fighting back?
1) how would they restrain him?
2) who on this planet wouldn’t fight back when being restrained?
Knowing a bit about DM and MS, suspect that bullet to brain was their mode of restraint.