Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

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I'm just now wondering what affect, if any, things that are said by DM's or MS's lawyers at this sentencing hearing will have on any appeal of their convictions. It just seems to me that RP is not disputing that DM killed TB and/or LB. Am I misunderstanding?

All MOO.
 
Jasper52 said:
If the court orders that parole eligibility here runs consecutively, Millard will be 77 years of age in 2063 when he would first be allowed to apply for parole, Pillay says.
by Adam Carter 3:29 PM

"He's largely been isolated from most of his friends and some of his family from when he was first charged," Pillay says, but some people have still written letters of support.
by Adam Carter 3:33 PM
Click to expand...

What?? 77 years?? OK, let's talk about ages and birthdays.
Laura Babcock was 23, and will never get to see her 24th, 25th.... or her 77th birthday. On this day, what would have been her 29th birthday, this is very much a poignant fact.
Tim Bosma was 32, and will never get to see his 33rd, 34th, 35th.... or his 77th birthday.

Isolated from friends and family?? OK, let's talk about isolated, friends, family
Laura is separated forever from her parents and friends. Her remains are isolated, laying in the bottom of Lake Ontario with cold waves washing endlessly over them.
Tim is separated forever from his wife, parents, his daughter, now fatherless, must feel isolated when her friends spend time with their fathers

The lawyers are trying to turn the killers into the victims. Pillay, nice try. BUT, I don't recall victim impact statements from Dellen Millard or Mark Smich

The real victims are in the courtroom, but not in the prisoner box.
 
I wonder how many of these people DM paid off to get letters of recommendation.
 
There's also a letter from the security manager from the Toronto East Detention Centre, who says he hasn't had any issues with Millard, Pillay says. "It cannot be said that he is beyond any hope of salvation and correction," he says.
by Adam Carter 3:43 PM

Code says there are two sides of Millard's personality -- one that can be charming, and one that is "extremely dangerous." He says there needs to be a psychiatric report here to make any sort of argument on rehabilitation.
by Adam Carter 3:44 PM

"He's capable of being charming and socially acceptable," Code says, but again notes that Millard can also be very dangerous.
by Adam Carter 3:48 PM

Pillay is now finished his submissions.
by Adam Carter 3:50 PM

Smich's lawyer, Thomas Dungey, is now starting his submissions.
by Adam Carter 3:51 PM
 
Jasper52 said:
There's also a letter from the security manager from the Toronto East Detention Centre, who says he hasn't had any issues with Millard, Pillay says. "It cannot be said that he is beyond any hope of salvation and correction," he says.
by Adam Carter 3:43 PM

Code says there are two sides of Millard's personality -- one that can be charming, and one that is "extremely dangerous." He says there needs to be a psychiatric report here to make any sort of argument on rehabilitation.
by Adam Carter 3:44 PM

"He's capable of being charming and socially acceptable," Code says, but again notes that Millard can also be very dangerous.
by Adam Carter 3:48 PM

Pillay is now finished his submissions.
by Adam Carter 3:50 PM

Smich's lawyer, Thomas Dungey, is now starting his submissions.
by Adam Carter 3:51 PM
Click to expand...

BUIBM It's called being a psychopath.
 
Just4TB said:
What?? 77 years?? OK, let's talk about ages and birthdays.
Laura Babcock was 23, and will never get to see her 24th, 25th.... or her 77th birthday. On this day, what would have been her 29th birthday, this is very much a poignant fact.
Tim Bosma was 32, and will never get to see his 33rd, 34th, 35th.... or his 77th birthday.

Isolated from friends and family?? OK, let's talk about isolated, friends, family
Laura is separated forever from her parents and friends. Her remains are isolated, laying in the bottom of Lake Ontario with cold waves washing endlessly over them.
Tim is separated forever from his wife, parents, his daughter, now fatherless, must feel isolated when her friends spend time with their fathers

The lawyers are trying to turn the killers into the victims. Pillay, nice try. BUT, I don't recall victim impact statements from Dellen Millard or Mark Smich

The real victims are in the courtroom, but not in the prisoner box.
Click to expand...

I saw that "isolated from his friends and family" thing as cover for the fact that nobody other than his mother from his life before his arrest wrote anything in support. He inspired very little loyalty for a guy his mother saw as "loyal to a fault".
 
Dungey says he's adopting some submissions that Pillay put forward, but he differs with him on the "principal parties" aspect.
by Adam Carter 3:54 PM

Dungey is making the argument that Code can put any figure up to 25 years in terms of sentencing here -- that it doesn't have to be 25 years.
by Adam Carter 3:56 PM

"If you look at the roles here, Mr. Smich would not be in court ... if it hadn't been for Mr. Millard. He didn't even know Laura Babcock," Dungey says. He's referring to Millard's "cult of personality" -- his ability to "get people to do things."
by Adam Carter 3:58 PM

Millard is looking over at Smich in the box with a "you've gotta be kidding me" look on his face.
by Adam Carter 3:59 PM

Dungey says that Smich isn't an "instigator," and says he was "tagging along."
by Adam Carter 3:59 PM

Dungey also says there are no texts between Millard and Smich about Laura Babcock. He says that shows who the principal was here. "He was convicted ... but I suggest to you as an aider and abettor," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 4:01 PM

"The roles played, I say, are obvious," Dungey says. He says Millard had "complete control" of the situation.
by Adam Carter 4:02 PM

 
BBM

Jasper52 said:
Pillay is running through case law that includes a man opening fire in a food court, or a case that involved cannibalism. He says it's these sorts of incidents where a person needs to be totally removed from society, where an offender is "beyond redemption."
by Adam Carter 3:12 PM
Click to expand...


I would say incinerating not one, but two victims with a planned out murder is also 'beyond redemption." MOO
 
Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 21m21 minutes agoMore
Millard is also part of the Toronto Native Spirituality Program, Pillay says. #LauraBabcock
Click to expand...

Millard also told Seaman that he was "a direct descendant of Chief Joseph Brant," the Mohawk leader who aided the British forces during the American Revolution in the mid-1700s.
Click to expand...
Source http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/who-is-dellen-millard-the-accused-in-the-tim-bosma-case-1.1331731

Geez - now out comes the race card, suddenly DM is also native.... as he claimed in one of his "delusions of grandeur" narcissistic interviews...
Show me his status card... This , and his lawyer, are really irking me.
 
Dungey says the character of Millard and Smich is "totally opposite." One is the "privileged child" (Millard), the other is Smich, coming from an "immigrant family with an abusive husband."
by Adam Carter 4:04 PM

"This is a father who crippled the family, virtually," Dungey says. When Smich's mother was pregnant with him, the father threw her down a flight of stairs, Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 4:05 PM

Dungey says Smich's parents separated when he was about three years old.
by Adam Carter 4:07 PM
 
Lisa Hepfner tweet: "[FONT=&quot]Millard has been a model inmate and has shown the capacity for rehabilitation, Pillay says, referencing letters from cell mates. Millard first faced difficulty in the gen pop given the publicity over his charges. Eventually made friends with others in custody."[/FONT]

It's odd that DM had only letters of support from his mother, and LW, and various inmates. Seriously? That's pretty desperate to rely on other convicts to attest to your good character. DM is a master manipulator and will use every ounce of charm he can muster to establish himself as an influential character in prison, IMO.

All MOO.
 
brightii said:
Lisa Hepfner tweet: "[FONT=&amp]Millard has been a model inmate and has shown the capacity for rehabilitation, Pillay says, referencing letters from cell mates. Millard first faced difficulty in the gen pop given the publicity over his charges. Eventually made friends with others in custody."[/FONT]

It's odd that DM had only letters of support from his mother, and LW, and various inmates. Seriously? That's pretty desperate to rely on other convicts to attest to your good character. DM is a master manipulator and will use every ounce of charm he can muster to establish himself as an influential character in prison, IMO.

All MOO.
Click to expand...

His character references are fellow murderers... nuff said....
 
"It's more than not having a father ... it's embedded in your brain when your father won't even come take you out," Dungey says. "I'm probably not the best judge to try to sell that story to," Code responds.
by Adam Carter 4:11 PM

Dungey now talking about how Smich quit school after grade 10, and got into drugs. "Here's this child who's got no father figure, he's got no job, really ... Millard comes along, and they become friends."
by Adam Carter 4:12 PM

"He meets Millard through selling drugs, and the rest is history. He's got that father figure," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 4:14 PM

"It's one of the great tragedies I've ever seen in criminal law, this case," Dungey says. "Well what sort of clients do you usually represent?" Code says, deadpan. The courtroom starts laughing.
by Adam Carter 4:16 PM

Dungey says the Smich before the court today and the Smich from when he first got arrested are "not the same man."
by Adam Carter 4:17 PM

Dungey says he has a letter signed by all the inmates in Smich's area of the jail talking about "how helpful he has been."
by Adam Carter 4:18 PM

Code now asking if there's anything specific in Dungey's materials saying that Smich has kicked his drug habit in "the joint."
by Adam Carter 4:20 PM

Dungey says that Smich hasn't been in jail "doing nothing." He's been taking courses and working inside the facility.
by Adam Carter 4:21 PM
 
Jasper52 said:
"It's more than not having a father ... it's embedded in your brain when your father won't even come take you out," Dungey says. "I'm probably not the best judge to try to sell that story to," Code responds.
by Adam Carter 4:11 PM

Dungey now talking about how Smich quit school after grade 10, and got into drugs. "Here's this child who's got no father figure, he's got no job, really ... Millard comes along, and they become friends."
by Adam Carter 4:12 PM

"He meets Millard through selling drugs, and the rest is history. He's got that father figure," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 4:14 PM

"It's one of the great tragedies I've ever seen in criminal law, this case," Dungey says. "Well what sort of clients do you usually represent?" Code says, deadpan. The courtroom starts laughing.
by Adam Carter 4:16 PM

Dungey says the Smich before the court today and the Smich from when he first got arrested are "not the same man."
by Adam Carter 4:17 PM

Dungey says he has a letter signed by all the inmates in Smich's area of the jail talking about "how helpful he has been."
by Adam Carter 4:18 PM

Code now asking if there's anything specific in Dungey's materials saying that Smich has kicked his drug habit in "the joint."
by Adam Carter 4:20 PM

Dungey says that Smich hasn't been in jail "doing nothing." He's been taking courses and working inside the facility.
by Adam Carter 4:21 PM
Click to expand...

"the joint" lol
 
Dungey says we don't want inmates "coming out worse than when they went in." He says Smich has "come to terms with his convictions" and he's trying to better himself

If he's come to terms with his conviction, maybe he should withdraw his motion to appeal... Maybe that would help....???
 
brightii said:
Lisa Hepfner tweet: "[FONT=&amp]Millard has been a model inmate and has shown the capacity for rehabilitation, Pillay says, referencing letters from cell mates. Millard first faced difficulty in the gen pop given the publicity over his charges. Eventually made friends with others in custody."[/FONT]

It's odd that DM had only letters of support from his mother, and LW, and various inmates. Seriously? That's pretty desperate to rely on other convicts to attest to your good character. DM is a master manipulator and will use every ounce of charm he can muster to establish himself as an influential character in prison, IMO.

All MOO.
Click to expand...

BBM

Is that like one Pot calling the other Pot clean?
 
Dungey says we don't want inmates "coming out worse than when they went in." He says Smich has "come to terms with his convictions" and he's trying to better himself.
by Adam Carter 4:24 PM

Dungey also points out that Smich wasn't trying to "manipulate witnesses," like Millard did. "So it's an absence of an aggravating factor," Code says. "It's a positive, lets stay positive," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 4:25 PM

"We don't throw these people in jail and throw away the key," Dungey says. "Do we want to create an America up here? No thank you."
by Adam Carter 4:26 PM

"He's got two life sentences. What parole board is not going to take a hard, hard look at this? He's going to get extra attention," Dungey says, adding Smich would likely be refused parole a few times, easily.
by Adam Carter 4:29 PM
 
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