Legal Questions for our VERIFIED Lawyers #3

[AZlawyer]

So Jose has never even acted as co-counsel in a DP trial, I don't believe. Is CM's only obligation to sit in on the trial as a death penalty qualified lawyer? That seems very unethical, particularly since Jose is so unqualified. Are these partnerships with dp unqualified lead counsel and credentialed co-counsel common? Is the co-counsel typically a little more "hands on" with the case?

Thanks

Ethically, IMO CM needs to do more than sit there. But we don't know what he's doing during prep sessions every night. Hopefully they are having prep sessions....right?? :waitasec:

Does anybody know where I can find out what Lippman said to the media today about JB ??? I have heard that it was pretty shocking and some couldn't believe he would say something like that..

I think he said something about not making any comments about JB until he was no longer a lawyer.

ty for answering beachbumming but with sunshine laws and all the transparency it avails us, coupled with WS members who monitor all docs and motions on this matter, how could a judge issuing a subpoena for GA's med recs have gone undetected by all? NM rhetorical question. I don't really guess there is a verifiable answer to that one.

Subpoenas don't normally show up on the docket unless there is some objection.

I asked this on the trial thread and wanted to ask here to see if anyone knows....

Ok... so IF they can bring in this witness... who can talk about how people act
when dealing with grief... and as the Judge said... grief does "not usually set in
until a body has been found"... would this then allow the tape of her reaction
when Caylee had been found?

Hmmm. I don't think so, because neither side is taking the position that that was when Casey learned Caylee was dead. Good question, though.

is it possible for a juror to hibernate sort of, the human animal at times rests their eyes with all the bruhaha amidst them - the distractions and flourescent lights. And, it must be like a stage side show at times? I sat jury and, we were united and had a bond. Would that question:juror sleeping be asked to stand up, stretch and . could a comparison to a bear that is silent. I would not assume if eyes are closed they are sleep or shall I assume this? Is it not possible for improved concentration to close ones' eye?


my text is for AZ Law to utilize and is the intended recipient . ♥

I wouldn't assume anyone is asleep unless they are snoring. If HHJP thinks a juror is asleep, he will probably call a short recess.

I don't think I ever got an answer from the Lawyers:

Can a kidnapping charge be brought against the defendant, even though she is considered the custodial parent?

IMO, ICA kidnapped Caylee from the domicile of George and Cindy, held her captive, and would not disclose where she was for 31 days.

(I will try to edit/delete my question if that has already been answered in the charges, etc.)

Thank you.

No. CA and GA had no custodial rights to Caylee. Casey had sole custody and so could not kidnap her by removing her from the home.

Hello. I have just a general question. Is it true that a prosecutor cannot come and directly call the defendent a liar?? So in this case there will never be a moment the state can actually call kc a liar but have to soft play their words with things like "Not telling the truth" ?? I heard this from a lawyer in the state of Colorado, I could have misheard, or maybe it's just a colorado thing?? I'm just curious

Thanks in advance

This is true but it is not a big deal. The jurors will be writing "LIAR!" in their little notebooks without anyone needing to say the word.

I live in FL and it is my understanding if she is sentenced to death she has a choice between lethal injection or good old "sparky" is that correct ?

I think that was only for people sentenced before a certain date. Now IIRC it is all lethal injection in Florida.

OK, still learning my way around ,how to post etc... if convicted in FL does she automatically get to appeal ??

Yes, there will be an automatic appeal.

Let me ask this. If, big if, this new defense witness the grief nurse is approved to testify, does Mr. Baez not first have to lay a foundation for this theory that George molested Casey? Prior to her testifying by using other witnesses? Or has the state opened the door by pointing out all of Casey's unusual behavior?

If the nurse is going to testify that molestation can cause this behavior, IMO it would be wise for HHJP to insist that some evidence of the molestation be introduced first.

I'm sorry for not being able to go through the whole thread to see if this was asked before (as well as being ignorant and not already knowing this answer).

If ICA actually does take the stand and on direct talks about sexual abuse and more details regarding the accident (which I'm not convinced she'll actually do), is she legally able to plead the 5th as soon as it's time for her to be cross-examined? If that is the case, could she simply say, "I plead the 5th to all questions," or would she have to invoke her right to each individual question SA asks her?

Thanks in advance :tyou:

No, she can't testify and then refuse to be cross-examined. She would have waived her 5th Amd rights by testifying.

My apologies if this has been asked and answered, I've missed it if so. I've been looking at ICA's booking record and charges.

http://apps.ocfl.net/bailbond/default.asp?BookNumber=08049710&ID=10340693861142

Besides others, I've noticed she has also been indicted on:

Charges

Case Sequence: 962
Case Status: Presentenced
#Bond Amount: 0.00
Police Case Number: n/a
Court Location: CIRCUIT
Arresting Agency: Orange County Sheriff Office
Charge/Court Case Number: First Degree Murder
482008CF15606O
Note: (grand Jury Indictment)
______________________________________
Case Sequence: 964
Case Status: Presentenced
#Bond Amount: 0.00
Police Case Number: n/a
Court Location: CIRCUIT
Arresting Agency: Orange County Sheriff Office
Charge/Court Case Number: Aggravated Manslaughter Of A Child
482008CF15606O
Note: (grand Jury Indictment)

My question is she is being tried for First degree murder but still has a aggravated Manslaughter charge pending. I'm not exactly sure how this works but I think her lawyers could ask for the jury to consider a lesser included decision like manslaughter instead of first degree. (unsure)

If they only consider first degree and she is found not guilty, what happens to the manslaughter charge? Would double jeopardy apply?

Many thanks to our lawyers, it's very much much appreciated.

She is being tried now on all the charges at once: first-degree murder, agg manslaughter of a child, agg child abuse, and providing false info to LE. The jury will be given lesser-included offense instructions as well.

Respectfully<

How in the world can you get a witnesses medical records...., they are not on trial doesn't HIPPA apply ? sorry if this has already been addressed.

I was called for jury duty,first time in my life, defendant had access via the jury questionare of my name, empoymentl, position home address,family/friends occupations IMO that is not right BTW they did not choose me !

HIPAA does not prevent a subpoena for records from being issued.

 

[my2sense]

The talking heads et al keep saying Casey will need to take the stand. Isn't it true that you can't put your client on the stand if you know they will lie? Doesn't that take the choice away from the DT, since they know all she does is lie? TIA

 

[cmsg2002]

I guess my question is two-fold and goes to the issue of competent counsel:

While I don't believe the DT's accidental drowning theory whatsoever...

It gives me great pause and concern over why her attorneys would not have sought a plea agreement if this was truly the case. I don't believe there is an attorney out there who would have their client facing a death penalty charge or go through a full-blown murder trial if in fact the drowning scenario was true.

Is there anyway to know if the DT had in fact advised her to plea and/or her denial of same? i would think the DT would have made her sign something to the effect that she was going against their advice, if she choose not to do so, to protect themselves. And if they didn't advise KC to take a plea...isn't this in and of itself gross negligence and grounds for appeal on incompetent counsel?

And while Baez may not be the brightest bulb on the tree...he isn't stupid, and my instinct is this is part of the DT's overall plan as well.

And secondly, while I'd hate to believe an attorney would sink that low....is it possible that the DT would take this to trial for the publicity it will bring them, all the while knowing and/or planning on taking steps for appeal?

 

[chckmate22]

During today's hearing when playing the jail video this morning ICA admits that she has gotten letters from specifically AH directly from JB. I know that there were motions etc discussing this and it was denied by DT, but doesnt this admission on the behalf of his client prove that he went around the rules and could he now get into trouble for it? TIA and i will edit when i find the exact video

 

[beachbumming]

I guess my question is two-fold and goes to the issue of competent counsel:

While I don't believe the DT's accidental drowning theory whatsoever...

It gives me great pause and concern over why her attorneys would not have sought a plea agreement if this was truly the case. I don't believe there is an attorney out there who would have their client facing a death penalty charge or go through a full-blown murder trial if in fact the drowning scenario was true.

Is there anyway to know if the DT had in fact advised her to plea and/or her denial of same? i would think the DT would have made her sign something to the effect that she was going against their advice, if she choose not to do so, to protect themselves. And if they didn't advise KC to take a plea...isn't this in and of itself gross negligence and grounds for appeal on incompetent counsel?

And while Baez may not be the brightest bulb on the tree...he isn't stupid, and my instinct is this is part of the DT's overall plan as well.

And secondly, while I'd hate to believe an attorney would sink that low....is it possible that the DT would take this to trial for the publicity it will bring them, all the while knowing and/or planning on taking steps for appeal?

The state may have not offered one, but if they did JB has an ethical duty to present to ICA any and all proposed plea deals. He can't force ICA to take it. I don't believe JB would do anything on purpose to set up an appellate issue. He needs future business, so he would naturally want his image to be that of a competent attorney. IMO JB appears more inexperienced than incompetent.

 

[Snaz]

If Baez tries to slip something into his closing statement that did not come into evidence during the trial, can/will the State object? Or are objections not normally made during closing?

I don't put anything past Baez.

TIA!

 

[fifteen89]

Has there ever been a successful appeal by the defense based on them not being allowed to do something because they missed the deadline set by the Judge? (like Baez wanting to redact the videos before the jury saw them and JP said the deadline has passed) TIA.

 

[AZlawyer]

The talking heads et al keep saying Casey will need to take the stand. Isn't it true that you can't put your client on the stand if you know they will lie? Doesn't that take the choice away from the DT, since they know all she does is lie? TIA

They would have to REALLY know she was going to lie. And if they REALLY knew, they would not have been permitted ethically to say the things they did in opening either.

IMO they "know" she will lie in the sense that they realize she is a liar and almost certainly is lying this time as well. But they don't REALLY know that her current story is not the truth.

During today's hearing when playing the jail video this morning ICA admits that she has gotten letters from specifically AH directly from JB. I know that there were motions etc discussing this and it was denied by DT, but doesnt this admission on the behalf of his client prove that he went around the rules and could he now get into trouble for it? TIA and i will edit when i find the exact video

Yes, this has been admitted many times by many people. IIRC I located a Florida statute a long time ago that made it a criminal act to smuggle such letters in and out of the jail. For some reason no one cares.

If Baez tries to slip something into his closing statement that did not come into evidence during the trial, can/will the State object? Or are objections not normally made during closing?

I don't put anything past Baez.

TIA!

Objections are not normally made during closing and are frowned upon by judges except for very serious infractions--such as pretending that evidence has been introduced when it has not.

Has there ever been a successful appeal by the defense based on them not being allowed to do something because they missed the deadline set by the Judge? (like Baez wanting to redact the videos before the jury saw them and JP said the deadline has passed) TIA.

Yes, sometimes appellate courts disagree that the deadlines were really fixed or were reasonable. And sometimes appellate courts find ineffective assistance of counsel when defense attorneys miss really clear and reasonable deadlines.

IMO HHJP did not think that the inadmissible portions of the videos were very damaging to Casey's case, and that's why he was willing to take the chance on letting the videos into evidence (rather than delaying the trial by having them redacted). The fact that something inadmissible is seen by the jury doesn't automatically mean a successful appeal--the inadmissible evidence has to be prejudicial to the defendant as well.

 

[elfie]

When Bloise was testifying on recross, when JB was asking if he couldn't assert that the transcription record of his handwritten notes reflected the notes accurately because he did not have the original notes for comparison, why couldn't Bloise state that he signed off on the notes on record before the original was destroyed?

Thanks!

 

[faefrost]

What is the deal with JB harping on Boises destroyed notes today? I thought that this was a subject that the opposing side could not touch in this manner? Aren't thing slike work product and investigators notes out of bounds when a formal report has been generated?

 

[AZlawyer]

When Bloise was testifying on recross, when JB was asking if he couldn't assert that the transcription record of his handwritten notes reflected the notes accurately because he did not have the original notes for comparison, why couldn't Bloise state that he signed off on the notes on record before the original was destroyed?

Thanks!

Maybe he didn't sign off on them. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "sign off," though, so I might be misunderstanding your question.

What is the deal with JB harping on Boises destroyed notes today? I thought that this was a subject that the opposing side could not touch in this manner? Aren't thing slike work product and investigators notes out of bounds when a formal report has been generated?

There is no work product privilege for LE that I know of. If the notes had not been destroyed, I'm sure the defense would have been entitled to see them.

He is harping on them because he has nothing else to harp on and because, as indicated by the lady who gasped in the gallery, many "lay people" think that the only reason for notes to be destroyed is to hide something damaging in the notes.

 

[elfie]

Maybe he didn't sign off on them. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "sign off," though, so I might be misunderstanding your question.



There is no work product privilege for LE that I know of. If the notes had not been destroyed, I'm sure the defense would have been entitled to see them.

He is harping on them because he has nothing else to harp on and because, as indicated by the lady who gasped in the gallery, many "lay people" think that the only reason for notes to be destroyed is to hide something damaging in the notes.

I just meant any system in place that has the note taker verify the transcription before destroying the original.

 

[AZlawyer]

I just meant any system in place that has the note taker verify the transcription before destroying the original.

I'm sure he would have been allowed to say that if there was such a system in place. But I don't think there is any such system in place.

 

[1tasha]

If the verified lawyers on this board were Florida state death penalty qualified, would there have ever been a point in this story where you would consider taking this case or
representing any of its players?

Also, not to sound snarky but are there other career avenues for lawyers who lack professional presence? I just can't see Jose pulling this off in the long term.

 

[AZlawyer]

If the verified lawyers on this board were Florida state death penalty qualified, would there have ever been a point in this story where you would consider taking this case or
representing any of its players?

Also, not to sound snarky but are there other career avenues for lawyers who lack professional presence? I just can't see Jose pulling this off in the long term.

I don't (and don't want to) do criminal trial-level work, so I'll leave your first question to other attorneys to answer.

As to your second question, there are lots of options. Most of them are not as well-paying as a private law practice, though. One option is to work for Lexis or Westlaw writing headnotes (summaries of holdings of case law). In fact, I think JB did that for a while.

 

[allycat1208]

It seems like many questions asked by the attorneys are often asked to get an opinion from the witness. They seem like fair questions, but are often objected to and overruled or sustained. Many question were asked about KC's demeanor and her mood after the month Caylee had disappeared. These questions were allowed usually. One question I believe asked by JB of CA was something to the effect of "Who do you believe the father of Caylee is?" was objected to and sustained. Why would it matter who CA believes is Caylee's father? An opinion is only a view and not a fact. Is it some opinions are going to prejudice the jury? Why are some opinion based questions allowed to be answered and others are not?

 

[Amil]

I believe I heard a meeting on Sat. between HHJP and the attys was cancelled. Was that on the subject of GA's medical records or the new nurse Ph.D. grief expert?

 

[jon_burrows]

Is there still a chance the SAs can get Cindy's Myspace post in front of the jury?

 

[beachbumming]

Is there still a chance the SAs can get Cindy's Myspace post in front of the jury?

The only way I see it coming in at this point is perhaps on cross-examination if ICA takes the stand.

 

[darnudes]

Popping in to thank all the lawyers for answering our questions and especially newcomer Beachbumming, hope we're not keeping you from the beach