Lies point us to the truth #2

[BOESP]

I like what Lou Smit said to the Ramseys: that the pineapple was the big "bugaboo" in this case. In other words, the pineapple in JonBenet's stomach refuted much of what the Ramseys said about their arrival home from the Whites.

Apparently John and Patsy then developed what some of us called "Ramnesia." Except Burke, who said JonBenet got out of the car and walked from the car into the house, which was totally opposite of "she was asleep and John carried her upstairs and put her to bed."

 

[Eddie99]

Speculate with me here; let's say they killed her.

What if, the parents said. We came home, and she wanted a snack before bed, so we gave her some pineapple.

Then what?

And if they killed JBR. Then how did this fit in? She had a bedwetting episode the mom took her down stairs, fed her pineapple, crashed her skull and then strangled her with a Garrote.

 

[DrQ]

I may be among the few that although the Ramsey's behavior was inconsistent, unreliable, and confusing, (imo) I still find it difficult to pin it on them. This is by no means saying they didn't react strangely. Having never been in a situation like that, I honestly can say my own behavior could seem peculiar to others. It is difficult to put oneself in that position and no one knows how they would behave and react. The worst part (imo) is how much time was spent on the Ramsey's. I'm not saying they should not have tried to eliminate or prove their involvement but it is quite possible and very likely something major has been overlooked or eliminated. The pineapple was in her stomach and still remains a topic of controversy.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Speculate with me here; let's say they killed her.

What if, the parents said. We came home, and she wanted a snack before bed, so we gave her some pineapple.

Then what?

And if they killed JBR. Then how did this fit in? She had a bedwetting episode the mom took her down stairs, fed her pineapple, crashed her skull and then strangled her with a Garrote.

Eddie99,

Your are not seeking what lies behind your own questions.
Why argue until we are blue in the face about the evidence and the facts as presented?

As has been suggested, please read up on the material pertaining to this case. Then perhaps the answers to your own views/question’s will seem a little clearer.

 

[DrQ]

Good point Eddie99. You never know. Working backwards it's the big why done it?

 

[Eddie99]

Rain,

I don't want you to feel as though I'm "arguing". I prefer to think of it as debating.
I hope you feel the same way.

I read & watched the police interviews. I watched the psychology interview with BR.
I read a lot of the various reports I could find that looked legit.

I still see nothing official about:

Where the pineapple came from. In terms of was it in the house. And was there a can, a skin or whatever still in the home. Again there is nothing offical.

Also I read the autopsy report - it said nothing specific about pineapple. It said "fibers consistent with fruit or vegetables".

There are however a s#it run of reddit posts saying that chunks of pineapple were in her stomach. Just isn't true. Unless I'm reading a fake autopsy report... and that's possible! Lol.

 

[887sMtreme]

<snipped for focus>

I still see nothing official about:

Where the pineapple came from. In terms of was it in the house. And was there a can, a skin or whatever still in the home. Again there is nothing offical.

Also I read the autopsy report - it said nothing specific about pineapple. It said "fibers consistent with fruit or vegetables".

There are however a s#it run of reddit posts saying that chunks of pineapple were in her stomach. Just isn't true. Unless I'm reading a fake autopsy report... and that's possible! Lol.

You’re in way over your head here if you have not yet found out “where the pineapple came from,” which is very basic stuff. It came fresh, in pre-cut chunks, from the produce department of the grocery store, in a plastic container kept in the family’s refrigerator. It was JonBenét’s favorite snack, especially with milk added, á la “The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie,” a favorite of Patsy Ramsey on which she based her pageant talent act; she thought it was “classy,” and she never passed up an opportunity to emphasize her self-perceived patrician status. The bowl of pineapple found in the house the morning after the murder, and clearly seen in still photo and video documentation of the scene, contained both pineapple chunks and milk. Patsy Ramsey explained all this in police interviews and in other reports available online.

The autopsy report and official analyses of that report are different documents. You need to search them out and read them all.

Go to the beginning of this forum for links to the material you need. It is exhausting, no doubt about it. The Kolar book is a good shortcut but no one source is either complete or 100% reliable. You need to absorb it all.

 

[Eddie99]

I found this:

Even though police knew early on about the pineapple and suspected the pineapple in the bowl was connected to the pineapple in JonBenet's digestive tract, they did not question either John or Patsy about the pineapple in the April 1997 police interviews. Perhaps this was because, try as they may, they could not obtain any solid evidence to link the two; they had torn the Ramsey house apart looking for traces of remnant pineapple but found nothing. Perhaps too, there was no questioning because Commander John Eller was still in charge of the investigation in April 1997 and (according to my theory, he would have known that it had been brought in by one of the intruders)


I think its worth noting that in and of itself with regards to the family, I don't see how this pineapple business helps/or hurts them.

Also, if she had eaten the pineapple and BR lost his *advertiser censored* and bashed her head in - the pineapple would not have been digested at all. Probably would have still been in her teeth too.

 

[Interested novice]

The vast majority of homicides against women and girls are by close family. Bodies found in the house heighten the likelihood of family involvement. It is therefore no surprise that the police considered the family as suspects and with the family avoiding formal interviews that did nothing to lessen the suspicion against them. Calling the police and all your friends over against the expressed wishes of your kidnapper also seems suspicious as if part of the staging. None of this is definitive ‘and hence’ one cannot ‘rule anyone in or out’ as police said within a week of the terrible tragedy.

Global study on homicide

 

[danablue1]

The Pineapples in The JonBenet Ramsey Case

An interesting read

 

[887sMtreme]

<snipped for focus>

I found this:

they had torn the Ramsey house apart looking for traces of remnant pineapple but found nothing.

What is your source for this astonishing statement?

 

[887sMtreme]

The Pineapples in The JonBenet Ramsey Case

An interesting read

This article contains numerous errors (some as basic as the difference between the rind and core of a fresh pineapple). Most of the article advances debunked theories, such as that canned fruit cocktail was served at the Whites’ party (it was not). The author relies heavily on Paula Woodward, an impeached source. Read critically.

 

[danablue1]

This article contains numerous errors (some as basic as the difference between the rind and core of a fresh pineapple). Most of the article advances debunked theorie, such as that canned fruit cocktail was served at the Whites’ party (it was not). The author relies heavily on Paula Woodward, an impeached source. Read critically.

Thank you! everything should be read with a grain of salt

 

[887sMtreme]

Thank you for this

Thanks for sharing it! We have to be aware of everything, and even flawed sources can contain nuggets of truth, or just send us down a new and interesting path.

 

[danablue1]

Thanks for sharing it! We have to be aware of everything, and even flawed sources can contain nuggets of truth, or just send us down a new and interesting path.

They have a lot of posts about JB

 

[887sMtreme]

They have a lot of posts about JB

Oh yes, I know.

 

[proust20]

The Rs never denied that the pineapple came from their fridge; only that none of them served it to JB. When she ingested it, about midnight, provides a marker for the timeline of the crime. It also makes IDI much more difficult to explain: Intruder(s) take JB out of bed, lead her down to the kitchen, feed her the pineapple without leaving fingerprints anywhere, while selecting a bowl that did have BR's prints on it. Since this was a favorite snack of JB's the intruder(s) would either have to have known this in advance, or ask her what she wanted. Beyond all this is the question of why the kidnapper(s) would take the time to feed her with the family in the house.

No matter what was found in JB's stomach, the fact that she ate something after returning from the Whites' is at variance with the R's version of events.

 

[Eddie99]

<snipped for focus>


What is your source for this astonishing statement?

Hey 887,

That was from The PINEAPPLE in the bowl with the LARGE SPOON in it

That's the ONLY thing I can find that offers anything regarding where the pineapple was sourced.

I want to add that the offical autopsy didn't state it was cherry and pineapple ect. There were fibers that were consistent with fruits or vegetables.

To me, this eliminates the whole notion she picked a pineapples chunk out of 9yo BR, and he crushed her skull, for it. It just couldn't of happened that way.

And if she wet the bed, and patsy killed her as a result. She would have had to have fed her the pineapple first, waited for her to digest it.

Then you have to account for 2 things. Her head being crushed, and the ligature.

The head trauma was devastating. She probably would have been completely incapacitated by this blog.

But. She clearly struggled with the ligature. She scratched her neck trying to loosen the ligature. She would not have been able to to this with severe brain trauma. So the Garrote has to be the first trauma she suffered. I don't see any other way.

There is another post above by "interested novice" about the percentage of women and girls murdered by family. I would have no problem believing those stats. But I'm also going to bet that out if those cases, there were probably well documented patterns of abuse, mental illness, drug addiction, several police interventions, prior felonies, malnutrition. Those are also, by definition cases with outcomes.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That's the ONLY thing I can find that offers anything regarding where the pineapple was sourced.

Eddie99,

Steve Thomas, in his depo November 2001 confirmed what Bonita Sauer had written:

24 Q. The pineapple, we know the autopsy
25 statement about the findings. Were there any
417
1 tests performed beyond the autopsy on those
2 contents?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Tell me about that.

5 A. What I know about that is
6 Detective Weinheimer received that assignment
7 during the course of the investigation,
8 employed the help of I think a biological --
9 or a botanist or somebody of some expertise
10 at the University of Colorado, Boulder. The
11 name Dr. Bach jumps out at me, as well as
12 others, and he completed a series of reports
13 concerning the pineapple and I think to save
14 time one of those conclusions I think I put
15 in the book.

16 Q. About the rinds being identical?

17 A. That it was a fresh pineapple
18 consistent -- fresh pineapple with a rind.

19 Q. Rind being consistent -- oh, with
20 a rind but consistent with pineapple found in
21 the house or in the bowl?

22 A. Yeah, and let me clarify that,
23 pineapple consistent down to the rind with
24 pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen.

25 Q. Consistent down to the rind. It
418
1 seems to me pineapple with rind is pineapple
2 with rind. Was there something unique about
3 this particular rind?

4 A. I think they were able to
5 determine -- well, in fact, I know that
6 fellow Officer Weinheimer disclosed to us that
7 they were able to characterize it as a fresh
8 pineapple rather than a canned pineapple.


The answer to the question of whether or not the pineapple in the intestine matched the pineapple in the bowl seems to be, based on the analyses of the CU professors, that yes indeed it did.

 

[proust20]

If the pineapple were not from the Rs' fridge, then the intruder(s) should have to have brought it with them when they broke into the house with the intention of feeding it to JB before they abducted her from the residence.

IMO neither pineapple snatching nor bed-wetting provide sufficient motive for such a brutal crime.