Lies point us to the truth

[Logic101]

A pull up will still fit snugly against the body. The bloomies obviously were for a child that was twice JB’s age.
A size 6 (in 1996) was for a normal sized 6 year old child; which JB was. Not an obese child.

Seeing is believing. Look at all those pictures of JonBenet. Her waist is almost as wide as her hips, as are most children’s waists, which are most definitely NOT defined at that tender age.

 

[UKGuy]

No, we do not know for a fact that a Size 6 set was purchased. You are at the mercy of what someone says and unless you have the receipt, you do not know!

Logic101,
We do not have any receipt for the size-12's, does this mean these were not purchased at Bloomingdale's?

Patsy says JonBenet selected a set of Bloomingdale's Day Of the Week Underwear and that she purchased them.

These were not size-12 otherwise there would be two sets floating about the Ramsey house and JonBenet would have no reason to request Jenny's gift as stated by Patsy.

BPD stated that no size-12 Bloomingdale's underwear was found anywhere in the house.

If there are 5-pairs of size-6 Bloomingdale underwear in the contents of JonBenet's underwear drawer removed by BPD search team, and there is a missing Wednesday pair then these will represent JonBenet's selection and Patsy's purchase on her NY trip?

BPD have never revealed the Make or Days Of The Week of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer, just that there were no size-12 underwear.

Presumably BPD do not have receipts for these items but if they are Bloomingdale's and size-6 then its safe to assume that what Patsy said was correct?

Just because there are no receipts it does not follow we cannot know if a size-6 set was purchased, unless you want to say Patsy or JonBenet shoplifted them?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe the simple truth to why the panties had to be Wednesday is just something simple. Whoever staged it know it was Wednesday and had to have the Wednesday panties on her. Like a perfectionist, type a personality.

Venom,

BBM: Sure, I agree. Its likely that JonBenet was wearing her recently purchased Bloomingdale's size-6, Day Of The Week: Wednesday.

Nearly all her clothes to the White's party were her picks from shopping trips with Patsy.

The person who redressed JonBenet, reckoned they had to be a Wednesday pair so blindly went for the size-12 Wednesday pair?

Which suggests that the set of Bloomingdale's represented the only set of underwear owned by JonBenet to have the Days Of the Week feature, otherwise the person redressing JonBenet could have gone with one of those?

.

 

[Logic101]

Logic101,
We do not have any receipt for the size-12's, does this mean these were not purchased at Bloomingdale's?

Patsy says JonBenet selected a set of Bloomingdale's Day Of the Week Underwear and that she purchased them.

These were not size-12 otherwise there would be two sets floating about the Ramsey house and JonBenet would have no reason to request Jenny's gift as stated by Patsy.

BPD stated that no size-12 Bloomingdale's underwear was found anywhere in the house.

If there are 5-pairs of size-6 Bloomingdale underwear in the contents of JonBenet's underwear drawer removed by BPD search team, and there is a missing Wednesday pair then these will represent JonBenet's selection and Patsy's purchase on her NY trip?

BPD have never revealed the Make or Days Of The Week of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer, just that there were no size-12 underwear.

Presumably BPD do not have receipts for these items but if they are Bloomingdale's and size-6 then its safe to assume that what Patsy said was correct?

Just because there are no receipts it does not follow we cannot know if a size-6 set was purchased, unless you want to say Patsy or JonBenet shoplifted them?

.

At least we can prove the Size 12’s were purchased because she was wearing a pair when her body was found. I am still waiting for definitive proof that the Size 6’s were ever purchased!

According to one of the housekeepers, both JonBenet and Burke’s underwear had “day of the week” on ALL of them, so, if that’s the case, then LE wouldn’t have had a clue as to what could have been part of a new batch!

 

[Logic101]

Since her new underwear was THE SAME SIZE as her old underwear, being a Size 6, LE would not necessarily have recognized it as being part of a new set.

 

[UKGuy]

Since her new underwear was THE SAME SIZE as her old underwear, being a Size 6, LE would not necessarily have recognized it as being part of a new set.

Logic101,
On the face of it, that sounds reasonable, but BPD know there is something going on with the underwear so would have given them more attention.

Minimally they could have easily confirmed whether any of JonBenet's underwear was the Bloomingdale's brand as Patsy said she purchased a set for JonBenet?

A negative here along with the size-12's vanishing, possibly including a worn pair of size-6 underwear, would have rubbished Patsy's claims regarding JonBenet, Jenny and the Bloomingdale's!

With BPD not commenting on the underwear its obvious what they have stored away is relevant.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Logic101,
On the face of it, that sounds reasonable, but BPD know there is something going on with the underwear so would have given them more attention.

Minimally they could have easily confirmed whether any of JonBenet's underwear was the Bloomingdale's brand as Patsy said she purchased a set for JonBenet?

A negative here along with the size-12's vanishing, possibly including a worn pair of size-6 underwear, would have rubbished Patsy's claims regarding JonBenet, Jenny and the Bloomingdale's!

With BPD not commenting on the underwear its obvious what they have stored away is relevant.

.

UKGuy,
Agreed! We all know underwear (wears out). Those recently purchased (although stained) would still look new.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Agreed! We all know underwear (wears out). Those recently purchased (although stained) would still look new.

Rain on my Parade,
Just the existence of a Bloomingdale set, say minus a Wednesday pair, would be sufficient to assume these had been purchased by Patsy?

According to the parents JonBenet could not read, never mind parse the dates tacked onto their underwear, suggesting JonBenet could not care less about Days Of the Week?

This was an aspect which was important to an older Ramsey resident.


This is why the size-12's are such a red flag, they scream staged crime-scene loud and clear.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

This is why the size-12's are such a red flag, they scream staged crime-scene loud and clear.

UKGuy,
As does the 911 call and the RN.

 

[Logic101]

Venom,

BBM: Sure, I agree. Its likely that JonBenet was wearing her recently purchased Bloomingdale's size-6, Day Of The Week: Wednesday.

Nearly all her clothes to the White's party were her picks from shopping trips with Patsy.

The person who redressed JonBenet, reckoned they had to be a Wednesday pair so blindly went for the size-12 Wednesday pair?

Which suggests that the set of Bloomingdale's represented the only set of underwear owned by JonBenet to have the Days Of the Week feature, otherwise the person redressing JonBenet could have gone with one of those?

.

We KNOW that JonBenet drew her last breath in those Size 12 panties, probably on her stomach, as evidenced by the urine stain down the entire front, so therefore the person that redressed her, according to your logic, had to have done so BEFORE she died.

 

[UKGuy]

We KNOW that JonBenet drew her last breath in those Size 12 panties, probably on her stomach, as evidenced by the urine stain down the entire front, so therefore the person that redressed her, according to your logic, had to have done so BEFORE she died.

Logic101,
Yes, that seems to be the case.

With fibers from John's Israeli manufactured shirt found on JonBenet's genital area, he might be a candidate for the redressing?

Yet, Coroner Meyer cites evidence suggesting another possibility:
December 29, 1996, BPD Search Warrant for Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, Excerpt

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that he observed red stains in the crotch area of the panties that the child was wearing at the time that the child's body was subjected to the external visual examination. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that the red stain appeared to be consistent with blood. Det. Arndt further informed the Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that after examining the panties (as described above), he observed the exterior pubic area of the child's body located next to the areas of the panties containing the red stains and found no visible reddish stains in that area. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that his opinion is that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped by a cloth.

So John might merely have pulled the size-12's down, wiped JonBenet clean, then pulled the size-12's back up?

Then the ligature/paintbrush was applied probably by Patsy?

.

 

[proust20]

PR admitted she bought the days of the week panties in NYC in Nov. '96. It isn't clear what she bought for JB, if anything. PR also stated that they were to be a Christmas gift for her niece. The reason she didn't send them, she said, was because the package of the panties had been opened, implying that JB had done this. So, PR decided to keep them and put them away in JB's drawer.
PR also stated that after returning to the house on the night of the 25th, JB was wearing panties when she took off the sleeping JB's black velvet pants. She was not specific as to what type of panties these were. Was this pair one of the many pairs removed by LE?
For me, the big question is why. Why was JB dressed in the size 12 Wednesday? Staging, of course. But what is this element of the staging meant to suggest. As it is plainly out of place, it is immediately noticeable. I don't understand the obviousness of the move. There isn't anything about it that suggests a kidnapping by an intruder. Of course, the lack of coordination between much of the staging and the RN is bizarre.
Something unknown was being covered up. An important aspect of the killing was being disguised. This seems like a good indication of BDI as it is so clumsy. But why the Rs would leave it that way throughout the rest of the staging is most perplexing.

 

[Logic101]

PR admitted she bought the days of the week panties in NYC in Nov. '96. It isn't clear what she bought for JB, if anything. PR also stated that they were to be a Christmas gift for her niece. The reason she didn't send them, she said, was because the package of the panties had been opened, implying that JB had done this. So, PR decided to keep them and put them away in JB's drawer.
PR also stated that after returning to the house on the night of the 25th, JB was wearing panties when she took off the sleeping JB's black velvet pants. She was not specific as to what type of panties these were. Was this pair one of the many pairs removed by LE?
For me, the big question is why. Why was JB dressed in the size 12 Wednesday? Staging, of course. But what is this element of the staging meant to suggest. As it is plainly out of place, it is immediately noticeable. I don't understand the obviousness of the move. There isn't anything about it that suggests a kidnapping by an intruder. Of course, the lack of coordination between much of the staging and the RN is bizarre.
Something unknown was being covered up. An important aspect of the killing was being disguised. This seems like a good indication of BDI as it is so clumsy. But why the Rs would leave it that way throughout the rest of the staging is most perplexing.

The reason it is so perplexing is because it just didn’t happen that
way. There would have been no reason whatsoever to change her panties, period. I think she died in the panties that she had on when she went to sleep and in all likelihood covering a Pull-Up.

 

[Venom]

The reason it is so perplexing is because it just didn’t happen that
way. There would have been no reason whatsoever to change her panties, period. I think she died in the panties that she had on when she went to sleep and in all likelihood covering a Pull-Up.

I can understand that, and it makes sense. But I think the size 12's would have been way too big even with covering up a pull up. I think it'd be noticeable to anyone who had seen her at the White's that night.
Then do you think that they took the size 12 panties out of the drawer that night to make it seem like an intruder brought panties in? If she did indeed have the bigger panties to wear over pull up's, why not just say that?

 

[UKGuy]

PR admitted she bought the days of the week panties in NYC in Nov. '96. It isn't clear what she bought for JB, if anything. PR also stated that they were to be a Christmas gift for her niece. The reason she didn't send them, she said, was because the package of the panties had been opened, implying that JB had done this. So, PR decided to keep them and put them away in JB's drawer.
PR also stated that after returning to the house on the night of the 25th, JB was wearing panties when she took off the sleeping JB's black velvet pants. She was not specific as to what type of panties these were. Was this pair one of the many pairs removed by LE?
For me, the big question is why. Why was JB dressed in the size 12 Wednesday? Staging, of course. But what is this element of the staging meant to suggest. As it is plainly out of place, it is immediately noticeable. I don't understand the obviousness of the move. There isn't anything about it that suggests a kidnapping by an intruder. Of course, the lack of coordination between much of the staging and the RN is bizarre.
Something unknown was being covered up. An important aspect of the killing was being disguised. This seems like a good indication of BDI as it is so clumsy. But why the Rs would leave it that way throughout the rest of the staging is most perplexing.

proust20,
Quite a lot of the above is incorrect. This is normal as most folks skim read stuff and have it confirmed others who do the same.

What Patsy said and what you say she implied are two different things.

Not a Christmas gift just a gift.

PR did not decide, in interview it's We Decided.

PR also stated that after returning to the house on the night of the 25th, JB was wearing panties when she took off the sleeping JB's black velvet pants.

Nope, in interview Patsy is vague about JonBenet's underwear and develops Ramnesia, same thing happens regarding JonBenet dressing for the White's, Patsy was MIA, so does not know what underwear JonBenet was wearing, so she says!

If you think about it, she has to say this otherwise she would be able to answer the questions below:
Atlanta 2000 Patsy Interview. Excerpt

4 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Mrs. Ramsey,

5 prior to going to the Whites, did you see

6 JonBenet in panties? In other words, were

7 you at any point, prior to going to the

8 Whites, in the process of her getting

9 dressed, did you ever see if she was wearing

10 panties?

11 A. I mean, I just probably didn't

12 notice. I would, she must have had them on

13 or I would have certainly noticed if she

14 didn't have any on.

15 Q. When you came home and you got

16 her ready for bed, did you notice if she was

17 wearing panties? When you changed her out

18 of the black velvet --

19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

20 Q. - type pants --

21 A. Right.

22 Q. -- and into the long underwear

23 pants --

24 A. Uh-huh, right.

25 Q. -- the White ones, did you notice

0113

1 if she had a pair of panties on?

2 A. Yes, she did. I believe she did.

3 Q. Why do you remember that? I

4 mean, what do you remember? I just want to

5 know what you remember about that.

6 A. Well, I took the jeans off and

7 put the long leggies on.

8 Q. And you noticed that she had

9 panties on in that process?

10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

11 Q. You have to answer yes or no.

12 A. Well, I noticed -- I mean,

13 nothing was unusual. I mean, if she hadn't

14 had panties on, it would have been unusual.

15 So --

16 Q. So there was nothing unusual

17 there?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. When you actually removed those --

20 you have -- they are black velvet pants?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And did the panties come down

23 with them when you removed those pants, if

24 you remember?

25 A. I don't remember.

0114

1 Q. If they had, would you remember,

2 or is that too long ago?

3 A. It has been a long time.

PR admitted she bought the days of the week panties in NYC in Nov. '96. It isn't clear what she bought for JB, if anything.

Patsy states in her interview that JonBenet selected a pack of underwear herself and that Patsy purchased the size-12's for her niece Jenny as a gift.

.

 

[Logic101]

I can understand that, and it makes sense. But I think the size 12's would have been way too big even with covering up a pull up. I think it'd be noticeable to anyone who had seen her at the White's that night.
Then do you think that they took the size 12 panties out of the drawer that night to make it seem like an intruder brought panties in? If she did indeed have the bigger panties to wear over pull up's, why not just say that?

I think Patsy did not want to admit that JonBenet still needed Pull-Ups occasionally! I think it was sort of an embarrassment to her that her 6 year old daughter was still having urinary mishaps.

 

[proust20]

Interview with PR August 28, 2000

Q: The underwear that she had on, a pair of Bloomi's panties, do you know where they came from as far as what store?
PR: Bloomingdale's in New York.
Q: Who purchased those?
PR: I did.
Q: Do you recall when you purchased them?
PR: It was, I think, in November of'96.
Q: Was it something that was selected by Jonbenet?
PR: I believe so.
Q: Was it your intention, when you purchased those, for those to be for her, not for some third party?
PR: I bought some things that were gifts and some things for her. So I don't...
Q: Just so I am clear, though, it is your best recollection that the purchase of the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the week, was something that you bought for her, whether it was just I am buying underwear for my kids or there are special, here's a present that doesn't matter but it was your intention that she would wear those?
PR: Well, I think that I bought a package of the - they come in a package of Monday, Tueasday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I think I bought a package to give to my niece.
Q: Which niece was that?
PR: Jenny Davis.

Q: I guess I am not clear on, you bought the panties to give to Jenny?
PR: Right.
Q: And they ended up in Jonbenet's bathroom?
PR: Right.
Q: Was there - I'm sorry. Do you recall making a decision then not to give them to Jenny, or did Jonbenet express an interest in them; therefore; you didn't give them to Jenny? How did that -
PR: I can't say for sure. I mean, I think I bought them with the intention of sending them in a package for Christmas things to Atlanta. Obviously, I didn't get that together, so I just put them in her, her pantie drawer. So they were free game.

Q: OK. What we are trying to understand is whether - we are trying to understand why she is wearing such a large pair of underpants. We are hoping you can help us if you have a recollection of it.
PR: I am sure that I put the package of underwear in her bathroom, and she opened them and put them on.

 

[Herlock5]

Siblicide.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I don’t believe this case will ever be solved. Once JR passes ... if Burke did it; it’s highly unlikely he will confess. If either one of the parents did it; I still don’t believe Burke will come forward. If he did, then evidence would have to back his story since the GJ knew enough to indict both. Unfortunately Burke was a month and a few days away from being prosecutable.
There is another video out there that shows the basement laundry room . PR was still in the process of wrapping gifts. It also shows ribbon on the staircase. I will look for it and if I find it again; I will post under media links.
I know I have mentioned the doll found in the basement w/BR birthday gifts, only to have that dismissed. But there were other gifts in that room and I propose JB was lured down there for that purpose. Some here believe the initial trauma happened in JB’s bedroom; yet I see so facts to prove this. I don’t think she ever went to bed that night. Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. She could have taken some of the pineapple upstairs in that Tupperware bowl for a late night dinner. But sleep she did not until she was put to sleep by the head blow.

 

[UKGuy]

I don’t believe this case will ever be solved. Once JR passes ... if Burke did it; it’s highly unlikely he will confess. If either one of the parents did it; I still don’t believe Burke will come forward. If he did, then evidence would have to back his story since the GJ knew enough to indict both. Unfortunately Burke was a month and a few days away from being prosecutable.
There is another video out there that shows the basement laundry room . PR was still in the process of wrapping gifts. It also shows ribbon on the staircase. I will look for it and if I find it again; I will post under media links.
I know I have mentioned the doll found in the basement w/BR birthday gifts, only to have that dismissed. But there were other gifts in that room and I propose JB was lured down there for that purpose. Some here believe the initial trauma happened in JB’s bedroom; yet I see so facts to prove this. I don’t think she ever went to bed that night. Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. She could have taken some of the pineapple upstairs in that Tupperware bowl for a late night dinner. But sleep she did not until she was put to sleep by the head blow.

Rain on my Parade,
If the case is PDI or JDI then I reckon Burke will eventually let us know, otherwise he will live his life under a shadow of suspicion.

I don’t think she ever went to bed that night.

JonBenet's hair was dressed for bed, her pajama bottoms are missing, her pink barbie nightgown was left bloodstained in the wine-cellar.

Basically JonBenet made it to her bed, Patsy likely dressed her hair, and made sure she was dressed for a quick getaway the next morning?

The basement is a staged crime-scene the primary crime-scene is upstairs and it could be either Burke or JonBenet's bedroom, I go for the latter given all the forensic evidence left behind.

If the case was simply an accidental death then dialling 911 would be enough, but this never happened, what did was a staged crime-scene which tells us the sexual element was recognized suggesting the case is either JDI or BDI?

Also some day soon BPD will release information on the itemized underwear removed from JonBenet's bathroom drawer.

i.e. is a Wednesday pair of size-6 Bloomingdale's missing?

There might never be a court case but we will know Who Did It eventually.

.