Lies point us to the truth

[887sMtreme]

snipped for focus
One question that raises for me is to what extent each family member knew if their role and how consciously they acted it out.

“knew OF their role.” Sorry. I hate catching typos too late to edit them properly.

 

[UKGuy]

JR wouldn’t have needed telepathic powers if he had already discovered what happened to JBR, or had even colluded in it.

You raise an interesting point about a joint role for all Ramsey family members in the house that night. One question that raises for me is to what extent each family member knew if their role and how consciously they acted it out.

887sMtreme,
JR had answers for the investigators that backed up whatever PR said her version of events were, this was in advance of JonBenet being found, IMO this rules out PR acting on her own.

The family members all knew what their roles were to be. This was revised once the public found out that the parents version of events regarding BR's role did not match the evidence, as BR was allegedly heard talking during the 911 call, later the parents confirmed BR was indeed wide awake throughout the 911 call and not sound asleep as previously claimed.

Patsy's role was to front up the 911 call, JR's role appears to be that of a co-ordinator, and BR's role was to patently fake being asleep then slip out of the house ASAP.

All three Ramsey's knew full well that they were attempting to evade homicide charges, they each had their story, and played their allotted role with minimal deviations.

The case is really simple once you accept its RDI. Only one of the remaining Ramsey's abused and assaulted JonBenet, everything else is just staging.

If sexual abuse was the motive you have two likely suspects. Compare and contrast the forensic evidence and only one is left.

PDI is left on the table, but has more questions than answers to offer, e.g. long johns, size-12's, paintbrush, etc.

.

 

[887sMtreme]

Didn't know which thread to put this on but this seemed to be the active one.

Did anyone hear on NBC news this morning that LE will or may use the newer genetic DNA technology to examine DNA found in this case in hopes of finding the killer of Jon Benet? This is the same testing which solved the Golden State Killer case. I would have thought they had already tried this as it has been so useful in other cases.

I was unable to find a useable link for this news but did a search and found another link to this article which apparently came out Monday (two days ago).

Boulder police examine DNA evidence in Jonbenet Ramsey case | 9news.com

What I got from this coverage is just that BPD wants us to know it’s open to any new DNA testing technology that comes along. Same old.

 

[887sMtreme]

Snipped for focus

887sMtreme,
JR had answers for the investigators that backed up whatever PR said her version of events were, this was in advance of JonBenet being found, IMO this rules out PR acting on her own.

Guy, do you think JR knew of (or found) JBR’s body before BPD showed up?

 

[proust20]

The Rs each had roles to play, or more so, to improvise. Just like in the movies. All acted against the backdrop of the RN. However, the three may not have known individually the complete scenario. The confession scene unfolded inevitably sometime during the night. How certain is it that a child killer should give a detailed account with blood still on their hands? Anyway, the killer found support instead of recrimination. We're a happy family/We're a happy family/Me, mom and daddy.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, there is a case to be made for PDI and PR staging it away using BR's long johns, etc.

The thing is where do the size-12's fit in. PR had no answer for the investigators other than she gave them to JonBenet?

If you are PR staging yourself out of a homicide you need an explanation for the size-12's.

To date nobody promoting a PDI has explained the size-12's.

The bottom line is they do not need to be there, JonBenet had drawer full of brand new size-6 Bloomingdales, and Patsy claims she was in this drawer earlier allegedly removing the long johns?

UKGuy,
My apologies for not replying to you post earlier. Have been very busy.

In regards to PR staging herself out of a homicide this is MOO: We both know PR didn’t put the size 12’s in JB bathroom drawer. They were downstairs in the laundry room. She is really the only one that knew their location. They were for her niece. She knew if they were wrapped or not. Why would BR or JR have knowledge of such info? She could have used them thinking she was again throwing somebody under the bus. She would profess to never dress her daughter in them.

BBM: Speaks of your father's generation. Don Paugh thought Shirley Temple was cute. BTW DP's rush back home is still unresolved, with JonBenet displaying signs of Chronic Abuse all males who had access to her are under the umbrella of suspicion.

Don Paugh also watched the children overnight for JR and PR at his condo. This condo actually belonged to Access Graphics. It is where the R’s first lived when they moved to Atlanta. I have always wondered why they did not stay there after the murder. Apparently they felt the need to be cared for or under supervision. Why did DP fly standby? Were JR’s plane’s being used?

Meaning the case might be BDI, but if JonBenet lived to talk she might have told us some other person was molesting her?

Exactly.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

A parent would be more apt to protect a guilty child than an abusive spouse.

proust20,
Unfortunately this isn’t always the case.

It's telling that in the middle of an abduction of one of their children, the Rs would send another out of their sight. PR's maternal instincts seem to have evaporated when most crucial. The RN states that the Rs are being monitored, and any violations of the FF's terms will result in JB's beheading. The FF would know then that BPD arrived at the residence. "She dies". Aware that JB's killers are lurking about, and also that their violation is a death sentence for JB, the parents decide to relinquish LE protection for their son, and dismiss BR to a neighbor's home.

This is exactly why the R’s are guilty of JB demise. They already knew this when the RN was written. Dismiss is exactly what they did to BR. This isn’t protection by any given stretch of the imagination.

The RN is influenced by movies. Perhaps the staging also has echoes of films? This would be very difficult to interpret visually; but, images could have been half-remembered by the stager(s).

Excellent point. My guess is the drama Queen of that household is the real movie buff. ‘Somewhere in time’ has a special meaning to me and JR being a fan makes no sense!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Snipped for focus



Guy, do you think JR knew of (or found) JBR’s body before BPD showed up?

887sMtreme,
I’m not Guy, but I have a take on this. During one of PR interviews she stated that after she found the RN she waited on JR @ the wet bar, while he was upstairs checking on JB and BR. She further stated that JR came upstairs not downstairs from the second floor. This would lead me to believe that JR had just come from the basement and walked up the butlers pantries steps to the back staircase and wet bar. Thus he was walking upstairs. So yes, he knew she was dead. Why else did he bolt straight away to the basement for one last search of JB?

 

[887sMtreme]

887sMtreme,
I’m not Guy, but I have a take on this. During one of PR interviews she stated that after she found the RN she waited on JR @ the wet bar, while he was upstairs checking on JB and BR. She further stated that JR came upstairs not downstairs from the second floor. This would lead me to believe that JR had just come from the basement and walked up the butlers pantries steps to the back staircase and wet bar. Thus he was walking upstairs. So yes, he knew she was dead. Why else did he bolt straight away to the basement for one last search of JB?

That’s my take, too — unless he was actually involved in the staging, which is possible.

 

[UKGuy]

Snipped for focus



Guy, do you think JR knew of (or found) JBR’s body before BPD showed up?

887sMtreme,
Yes, I reckon he and Patsy staged the wine-cellar crime-scene, its all fake including most of the items placed in there, they are only there so that nobody could ask questions.


JR might have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar, mid-morning when he went missing?

i.e. this was JR thinking ahead to the discovery phase, as finding JonBenet where she had originally been hidden would look too suspicious.

He decided to find JonBenet once he realized his original getaway plan had been scuppered, meaning he and Patsy would be left in a house with JonBenet's corpse?

Unknown to JR Fleet White looked into the wine-cellar that morning and never noticed anything amiss, e.g. no white blanket, pink barbie nightgown, or even JonBenet herself.

Later the same day JR looks in and sees JonBenet right away, despite him having poor eyesight, so poor he had to hire a pilot to fly his private plane.

So the question is how come JR can observe what Fleet White missed earlier that morning?

I believe all three Ramsey's knew JonBenet was hidden somewhere in the house. Only BR might not have known precisely where?

.

 

[887sMtreme]

887sMtreme,
Yes, I reckon he and Patsy staged the wine-cellar crime-scene, its all fake including most of the items placed in there, they are only there so that nobody could ask questions.


JR might have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar, mid-morning when he went missing?

i.e. this was JR thinking ahead to the discovery phase, as finding JonBenet where she had originally been hidden would look too suspicious.

He decided to find JonBenet once he realized his original getaway plan had been scuppered, meaning he and Patsy would be left in a house with JonBenet's corpse?

Unknown to JR Fleet White looked into the wine-cellar that morning and never noticed anything amiss, e.g. no white blanket, pink barbie nightgown, or even JonBenet herself.

Later the same day JR looks in and sees JonBenet right away, despite him having poor eyesight, so poor he had to hire a pilot to fly his private plane.

So the question is how come JR can observe what Fleet White missed earlier that morning?

I believe all three Ramsey's knew JonBenet was hidden somewhere in the house. Only BR might not have known precisely where?

.

Well, that makes sense, too. Dang! What a gordian knot this case is!

I had a boyfriend back in the late 1980s who had the same kind of aircraft JR had, or close (a Beechcraft Bonanza). IIRC (and at this point I may not!), pilots weren’t allowed to wear glasses at all. You could have vision corrected to nearly normal but still not be cleared to fly. Or was that just the rule for contact lenses?

Regardless of that, the whole thing with Fleet White just stinks like yesterday’s diapers (to quote the cigar-smoking baby in “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?”). I can’t get over thinking that he knows something vital and won’t tell as long as JR is still alive, if then.

 

[UKGuy]

Well, that makes sense, too. Dang! What a gordian knot this case is!

I had a boyfriend back in the late 1980s who had the same kind of aircraft JR had, or close (a Beechcraft Bonanza). IIRC (and at this point I may not!), pilots weren’t allowed to wear glasses at all. You could have vision corrected to nearly normal but still not be cleared to fly. Or was that just the rule for contact lenses?

Regardless of that, the whole thing with Fleet White just stinks like yesterday’s diapers (to quote the cigar-smoking baby in “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?”). I can’t get over thinking that he knows something vital and won’t tell as long as JR is still alive, if then.

887sMtreme,
Yes, JR's eyesight was so bad he was not allowed to fly at all, anywhere, anytime.

I reckon Fleet White knows who assaulted and killed JonBenet. He never knew right away, it might have taken him months or years to process what he knew.

He was the only non-Ramsey to walk about BR's bedroom with BR awake and present. He even made BR's bed before helping him move out of the house. So Fleet White saw stuff nobody else did.

JR will be concerned if he leaves the planet first then Fleet White will be free to air his opinion without fear of being sued in court.

Although Fleet White will have to recognize whatever he says will have to be in accord with Colorado State's Child Protection Statutes.

This case still has legs.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
My apologies for not replying to you post earlier. Have been very busy.

In regards to PR staging herself out of a homicide this is MOO: We both know PR didn’t put the size 12’s in JB bathroom drawer. They were downstairs in the laundry room. She is really the only one that knew their location. They were for her niece. She knew if they were wrapped or not. Why would BR or JR have knowledge of such info? She could have used them thinking she was again throwing somebody under the bus. She would profess to never dress her daughter in them.



Don Paugh also watched the children overnight for JR and PR at his condo. This condo actually belonged to Access Graphics. It is where the R’s first lived when they moved to Atlanta. I have always wondered why they did not stay there after the murder. Apparently they felt the need to be cared for or under supervision. Why did DP fly standby? Were JR’s plane’s being used?



Exactly.

Rain on my Parade,
No problem, its a busy time of year.

In regards to PR staging herself out of a homicide this is MOO: We both know PR didn’t put the size 12’s in JB bathroom drawer. They were downstairs in the laundry room. She is really the only one that knew their location. They were for her niece. She knew if they were wrapped or not. Why would BR or JR have knowledge of such info? She could have used them thinking she was again throwing somebody under the bus. She would profess to never dress her daughter in them.

Yes, entirely possible. As per Kolar, BR claims to have been searching the basement Christmas Day afternoon. So could have been aware they existed?

Don Paugh also watched the children overnight for JR and PR at his condo. This condo actually belonged to Access Graphics. It is where the R’s first lived when they moved to Atlanta. I have always wondered why they did not stay there after the murder. Apparently they felt the need to be cared for or under supervision. Why did DP fly standby? Were JR’s plane’s being used?

Yes, why standby, very rich family member takes the cheap option, very strange. DP would need to hire a pilot, log a flight plan for approval, etc. Who wants to work so close to Christmas?

BlueCrab always thought because the R's stayed with the Stine's and then gave them employment later on, that the Stines were somehow linked to JonBenet's death, possibly via Doug Stine's friendship with BR?

Add in Susan Stine overhearing Doug and BR discussing how JonBenet was killed, e.g. manual or ligature strangulation along with a restraining assault, and you have the Stines apparently intimately involved in assisting the Ramsey's.

This is before you get into Susan Stine impersonating the Boulder Chief of Police via email, etc!

The R's excuse for not staying at the condo was they knew the media would be camped outside watching?

IMO, neither Patsy or John would have dressed JonBenet in the size-12's.

The parents staging objective was to make JonBenet appear as if she arrived home and was put straight to bed.

Dressing her in size-12's does not achieve this, unless you want to frame another family member, even then they are not obvious.

The long johns along with many other items used in the death of JonBenet seem to link back to Patsy, e.g. paintbrush.

So was Patsy staging for herself or another family member?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That’s my take, too — unless he was actually involved in the staging, which is possible.

887sMtreme,

The only evidence that we know of linking JR to the crime scene is his fiber evidence. This could have been deposited had he wiped JB while at the White’s party. Although it seems unlikely; it is a possibility. This and the fact that JB had been wiped down. So who actually wiped her removing the blood? I do not believe his prints were found on the WC door. I see him wearing gloves if he is part of the staging. Yet this doesn’t explain his disappearing act earlier that morning and the statement he made in the car with JAR & Stewart that he found JB 10:30 ish that morning. In MOO he was involved early, as in the middle of the night early. Making phone calls, delegating. Being cool as a cucumber that morning fully dressed when the BPD arrived at the door. Innocent or guilty. There are the true bills that reflect guilt.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Jonbenet would have been 31 today.
Tragically, sad!
Waiting …
someday the truth will come to light.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

887sMtreme,
Yes, JR's eyesight was so bad he was not allowed to fly at all, anywhere, anytime.

I reckon Fleet White knows who assaulted and killed JonBenet. He never knew right away, it might have taken him months or years to process what he knew.

He was the only non-Ramsey to walk about BR's bedroom with BR awake and present. He even made BR's bed before helping him move out of the house. So Fleet White saw stuff nobody else did.

JR will be concerned if he leaves the planet first then Fleet White will be free to air his opinion without fear of being sued in court.

Although Fleet White will have to recognize whatever he says will have to be in accord with Colorado State's Child Protection Statutes.

This case still has legs.

Fleet White helped Burke make his bed the day JonBenet was "kidnapped"? Wow. I'm a weirdo who makes my bed every day but I can't imagine that being important when your sister has been kidnapped from her own home. I don't believe she was kidnapped. I believe it was one of the 3 remaining family members...but at that point, it was unknown (to Fleet White and others) what had happened to her. The Ramseys just wanted Burke out of the house. Just seems strange to me.

 

[UKGuy]

Fleet White helped Burke make his bed the day JonBenet was "kidnapped"? Wow. I'm a weirdo who makes my bed every day but I can't imagine that being important when your sister has been kidnapped from her own home. I don't believe she was kidnapped. I believe it was one of the 3 remaining family members...but at that point, it was unknown (to Fleet White and others) what had happened to her. The Ramseys just wanted Burke out of the house. Just seems strange to me.

RedLikeWineAgain,
That was the plan,JR had a word with Fleet White to relocate BR.

I agree, a baby girl is missing and making BR's bed seems low priority to me.

Then again, I was not there, could be FW was trying to inject some normality to the situation, who knows?

One thing is certain he got to see how BR was dressed, what his room looked like along with other things.

Meaning FW probably knows if the case is BDI or JDI?

.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

RedLikeWineAgain,
That was the plan,JR had a word with Fleet White to relocate BR.

I agree, a baby girl is missing and making BR's bed seems low priority to me.

Then again, I was not there, could be FW was trying to inject some normality to the situation, who knows?

One thing is certain he got to see how BR was dressed, what his room looked like along with other things.

Meaning FW probably knows if the case is BDI or JDI?

.

Very true that he could have been tryng inject some normality. Good point!

Has FW ever said how BR was dressed when he went to his bedroom to help make his bed??

 

[UKGuy]

Very true that he could have been tryng inject some normality. Good point!

Has FW ever said how BR was dressed when he went to his bedroom to help make his bed??

RedLikeWineAgain,
Yes I think he has. FW's account is out there on websleuths, just do a search.

FW also did a few interviews with BPD. none of which have been released.

I reckon he is a prosecution witness?

.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

RedLikeWineAgain,
Yes I think he has. FW's account is out there on websleuths, just do a search.

FW also did a few interviews with BPD. none of which have been released.

I reckon he is a prosecution witness?

.

I will do just that and look for FW's account of what he saw that day. Thank you.

He could very well be a prosecution witness. The last I heard, he and JR were no longer on speaking terms. Not sure if that is still the case.