Lisa and the river

[nursebeeme]

PLEASE THANK THIS POST BEFORE POSTING

The Lisa Irwin forum appears to be made up of cliques. You know, the type you have in high school before you begin to understand that there are a lot of interesting people and places in the world and your fear of such limits the personal boundaries you set for yourself. The disrespect between the two cliques is tiresome.


That being said, we need another review of the rules (which is really just a curtesy as everyone should know them or how to find and read them by now): This is NOT hard. Post YOUR thoughts, theories and interpretations (easy enough right?). Read the thoughts of others (not hard). Respond to those that may be of a like mind (okay, that should work). If you disagree with another poster and cannot post nicely, MOVE PAST THEIR POST (how hard is that?) If another poster gets under your skin, PUT THEM ON IGNORE (only takes about a minute). If you must refute their post - then use a link and state the fact as YOU see it (you all know this case, it can't be that hard). THEN DROP IT! That's it. See, not hard. If a post offends you, ALERT it, DO NOT RESPOND TO IT, and MOVE ON. It is okay to disagree, but it is NOT OKAY to attack or make fun of others. AND THE SNARK...well, that needs to just STOP.



It is our hope this gets the message across. There are many good posters here and no matter what opinion we may hold on who we feel is responsible we all are here for Lisa Irwin and want her to come home safely and soon.

Thanks so much,

The Lisa Irwin forum moderators

 

[krimekat]

thanks, Nurse . . .

 

[In da Middle]

Why would business owners have cameras pointed at the highway if they wanted to catch people stealing from their scrap pile? This doesn't make much sense. Surely their cameras were for identifying people in their lots, not driving down the street. If that was the case, they would pay thousands in equipment and tapes just to record the road. i can see LE getting tapes though just in case a suspicious vehicle happened to turn around there or drive through their lot. But, the cameras being trained on the road...doesn't make sense.

Also, I can't see throwing a bucket off the bridge to be any big feat whatsoever. It's all in either just dropping it or giving it a good swing. Not saying this can be done from a vehicle, but at that time of morning, not much traffic around that area and, even if someone saw it and reported it...(wait...someone DID report someone throwing something off the bridge)...it either is another piece of information that LE has now or it wasn't checked out and now will be.

BBM
Highway? They are pointed at Birmingham Road as i stated. LE told them that they needed as much identifying info as they could get to even think of prosecution that being ideally vehicle/tag info to see if that vehicle shows up at scrap yards.

 

[In da Middle]

True, there was a drought then here too... I was thinking of the MO river, which was still pretty high & running hard, don't know about the Blue...?

The Blue River was actually running backwards during the height of the flooding because the Mo River was flowing INTO it instead of the Blue flowing into the MO. Oct 4th it should have been running correctly and receding as the Mo. had just started receding. All are in their banks or running low now.

 

[norest4thewicked]

BBM
Highway? They are pointed at Birmingham Road as i stated. LE told them that they needed as much identifying info as they could get to even think of prosecution that being ideally vehicle/tag info to see if that vehicle shows up at scrap yards.

Ok...road, highway, roadway, etc. But, camera's would be pointed at their parking lot, storage area, etc. if they wanted to find vehicles actually ON their property. If they pointed it at the road, it wouldn't make sense because they would miss too much. I can see them having a motion camera that would be triggered once there was movement in the lot area, but a camera pointed on the people passing by...not so much.

 

[In da Middle]

Ok...road, highway, roadway, etc. But, camera's would be pointed at their parking lot, storage area, etc. if they wanted to find vehicles actually ON their property. If they pointed it at the road, it wouldn't make sense because they would miss too much. I can see them having a motion camera that would be triggered once there was movement in the lot area, but a camera pointed on the people passing by...not so much.

One of them (of several they have) is situated where they can capture anybody leaving/entering their property. This same shot also captures anybody traveling down the road itself where it is situated.

 

[norest4thewicked]

A very important fact that should be pointed out about the Chouteau Bridge that runs over the Missouri River. At the north end of the bridge there is a stoplight. On the bar for the signals, there are cameras.
Here is a sample view of what a traffic light camera can see:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/images/distr...cameraview.jpe

These cameras do NOT record. Here is a paragraph giving out details about the stoplight cameras directly from MODOT (Missouri Department of Transportation):

Who is watching me through these cameras?

There is no constant surveillance or archiving of these images. The camera view is a fixed focus, fixed location image (there is no zooming or moving the cameras once they are installed). The image is analyzed by the camera processor ONLY for the simple presence of vehicles within defined areas or "zones". The resolution of the image by these cameras is NOT good enough to read license plates or distinguish any facial features.
MODOT source for above reference: http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/links/signalcameras.htm

There is another camera system in Kansas City Missouri called KC Scout.
(kcscout.com)
There are no "scout" cameras on the Chouteau bridge.
If anything took place on the Chouteau bridge that night, it was not recorded.

Traffic light cameras vs. KC Scout cameras serve two different purposes.


Not only have I explored that road (Birmingham), I have explored about every possible location you could think of to access the river. I have also explored other locations where surveillance systems could be installed. One of the locations I looked into was the BP gas station on the north end of the Chouteau bridge. The station closes at midnight I believe. The cameras point on the pumps and do not cover traffic on Chouteau Trafficway at all. I have also walked down the hill next to the bridge. It's not as steep as people make it out to be. There is a path that leads down the hill to the dead end of Birmingham road right below. From what I can gather, this path was made by homeless people that may reside under the bridge from time to time, and people that may want to fish under the bridge but don't want to park down at the dead end of Birmingham road in fears they might get ticketed for trespassing (railroad property). I have also driven down Birmingham road and under the Chouteau bridge and it's really simple to get out and walk to the water. You can also position your vehicle pointing towards the river with your headlights on to see at night. I have explored every inch of the road, all of the houses on the road, and the businesses. Getting back to the gas station, you can pull into the parking lot on the west side of the station, park, and not be seen on video. You could then walk out onto the walkway on the bridge. I also talked to someone on Birmingham road that stated the barricade at the end of the road isn't always up, and most recently in the last few months it was put in place mainly because of the traffic down there caused by the Lisa Irwin case. Nothing is impossible here. I have also explored the possibility of throwing cell phones out while traveling across the I-435 bridge as I stated I would try to do a few months back. Power windows, three corncobs and out the window they went. All went over with ease. Riverfront park (where the boat dock is) could be closed at night according to the signs, and they have a big yellow bar like most parks have that they could close at night but I am unsure if KC Parks & Rec stays on top of it and locks it up at night. You can see in one of the pictures posted in this topic where there is a boat ramp then the river. If you look to the right of Harrahs and look at the Chouteau bridge, just under it and to the right you can see the terrain isn't that difficult to get to the river from underneath it. Looking for more cameras, I drove into Harrah's casino from Chouteau Trafficway and there isn't a camera until you get in there about a 1/4 of a mile after going around a few curves and the first camera is at the parking garage. I will never rule out the river and all of the access points, especially after traveling to all of the areas and walking many of them.

I wanted to bump this post because I feel that it is an important one.

 

[norest4thewicked]

One of them (of several they have) is situated where they can capture anybody leaving/entering their property. This same shot also captures anybody traveling down the road itself where it is situated.

So you have specifically talked to the business owner/owners and they have told you that every single vehicle that passes by their business on Birmingham is recorded?

 

[In da Middle]

So you have specifically talked to the business owner/owners and they have told you that every single vehicle that passes by their business on Birmingham is recorded?

One particular owner, yes.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

One particular owner, yes.

Does the state of MO require you have front and rear tags, or rear only? TIA!

 

[In da Middle]

Does the state of MO require you have front and rear tags, or rear only? TIA!

We are *supposed* to have both, but it doesn't seem to be enforced much. We are issued 2 when renewing. Kansas, just a very short distance away only requires rear.

 

[norest4thewicked]

One particular owner, yes.

Respectfully, that business must make millions to be able to afford cameras that cover the entire area of their business landscape as well as the road in front of it, 24/7.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Respectfully, that business must make millions to be able to afford cameras that cover the entire area of their business landscape as well as the road in front of it, 24/7.

If they are mtion activated, as many are, that saves a lot of room on a dvr.

 

[In da Middle]

Respectfully, that business must make millions to be able to afford cameras that cover the entire area of their business landscape as well as the road in front of it, 24/7.

No, just smart people strategically placing a few cameras in prime locations. If you do it yourself, it doesn't cost much at all. They are camera geeks by nature also. They only need a few to do what they need them to do.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

No, just smart people strategically placing a few cameras in prime locations. If you do it yourself, it doesn't cost much at all. They are camera geeks by nature also. They only need a few to do what they need them to do.

I recently priced an eight camera (with night vision) motion detection system for my home and shop which comes with 4G DVR for under $400, I'm seriously considering it, and I am no millionaire. But I did stay at a Holiday Express once. :woohoo:

 

[In da Middle]

I recently priced an eight camera (with night vision) motion detection system for my home and shop which comes with 4G DVR for under $400, I'm seriously considering it, and I am no millionaire. But I did stay at a Holiday Express once. :woohoo:

Yep, and I just was looking into a 2T (2 terabyte = 2,048 gig!) hard drives for a little more than $200. The cost to have cameras is miniscule compared to what thieves take, even in one trip.

 

[norest4thewicked]

If they are mtion activated, as many are, that saves a lot of room on a dvr.

Wouldn't that mean that every time a car drove past, that they would be activated?

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Wouldn't that mean that every time a car drove past, that they would be activated?

Yes and once the car has passed, it would stop, much like motion sensor lights, and you can adjust the delay for several minutes, or just a few seconds, depending on your needs.

 

[norest4thewicked]

No, just smart people strategically placing a few cameras in prime locations. If you do it yourself, it doesn't cost much at all. They are camera geeks by nature also. They only need a few to do what they need them to do.

Ok, but I still don't understand why someone would pay money to monitor a road. If I'm paying money for a camera system, no matter how small, I'm goiing to pay for it to record my property with my stuff on it.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Your points state that you want to cover your property. This makes sense. For businesses to cover more than their perimeter, doesn't make sense to me. That's just me though.

Moving on to another forum...