Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!

[marge_rita]

Hi all,

I haven't seen every interview the parents have made (I am in N.Z and it has only been briefly in the news). Can someone tell me, at any point have the parents looked down the lens to communicate to an Abductor and inform them of how to care for her? By that I mean what formula she has, he favorite foods, routine, possible allergies etc? If they have, then I think it could be a good sign, if they haven't...then I don't believe the parents think she is abducted at all.

That is a wonderful question!
Babies 10 months old are usually on formula-at least here they are for their 1st year. 10 month olds also like their blankie, soft toy or their pacifier.


hummm for me, that actually hints at the mother knowing the baby wasn't abducted.

AFAIK the mother hasn't talked to the 'kidnapper' on how to care for the baby yet. She did ask that the kidnapper bring her home.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

The onset is abrupt, and symptoms rapidly reach a climax of severity. Manic and acute polymorphic forms almost always start within the first 14 days, but depressive psychosis may develop somewhat later.

Suicide is rare, and infanticide extremely rare, during these episodes. It does occur, as illustrated by the famous cases summarized below. Infanticide after childbirth is usually due to profound postpartum depression (melancholic filicide) when it is often accompanied by suicide.[10]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

It appears the FBI asking the store clerk those questions about depression was pursuing this angle of motive.

 

[jjenny]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

I think "legal insanity" can be safely ruled out in this case. The mother appeared multiple time on camera and nothing suggests anything of the sort.

 

[Codger]

BBM When did the parents mention they didn't think the window w/the bent screen was the entry point?

In the first? interview. When asked if they thought someone could come in that way, they (I believe it was both of them) said no. I'm terrible at keeping track of links...

It was discussed a few times in the long general threads before we had a forum. I can find posts like this one -
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7212318&postcount=1107"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12[/ame]

but am not sure which exact video clips it was stated in. Or how to find it now?? Crap.
At any rate, IIRC - it was in the first or so interviews, parent/s commented on the window left open, finding screen bent when tried to shut window, made them think it was tampered with, LE asked if they thought someone could come in that way, they say no. In the same report they tell of finding the front door unlocked.

 

[yllek]

Where did the idea of a 2:30 am phone call came from? How would anyone know if there was a call/text at 2:30 am since the phones are missing? If it's a rumor I fail to see how anyone would have this information.

We don't know if the 2:30 phone call or text is a fact. It was unsourced by Fox News, as far as I can tell. I think it keeps coming in to theories and speculations because it wasn't confirmed or denied by Captain Young. Below is one of the references to it in a Fox report.

Police said Bradley and Irwin claim three cellphones were also taken from their home. Sources also told the station that a phone call was made from the couple's home at about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday.

"They told us that that morning. What the detectives have done with that I don't know," Young on Thursday. "Clearly it hasn't led to a big break in the case or I'd probably be able to talk about it. I can't get into details of what we're doing, but it's safe to say we're leaving no stone unturned."

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=38321&content=58065842&pageNum=-1

 

[Dr. Know?]

There's little Sylar Newton's mom who gave him to a custodial mom & grandmother who went camping and supposedly he was drugged and died. There's Zahra Baker's who's body was dismembered and placed in several locations and her skull has never been found that I've heard of by her evil stepmother, and there's Shaniya Davis who's mom was indicted for murder recently after about what a year and a half or 2 years now? She sold this sweetheart of a child to a perv for drugs.

I've had hope that Lisa would be found alive, but it's not looking good right now. There's Adji Desir who no one so far can figure out much of his sudden disapperance, sad, and little Haleigh Cummings and a bunch of drug addicts who won't talk, even for a sweet child. Oh and there's Kyron who's stepmom shutup too, there's Naveah, gah too many.

I could go on and on and each case has something similar to the other but each one of these children didn't deserve the hell they endured nor to die so young. Sadly, there are just sicko's who take these kids and do whatever. gah.

There's a very clear message that parents/live in boyfriends/girlfriends etc.. are picking up on that do harm their children and it's shut up, my lawyer will handle it. Where's the truth serum!! Maybe the children would at the least be found for closure to the families. It's only fair and would save the states sooo much money but most of all help heal the broken heart of there loved ones who greive for them. When you approach soo many years like many of the missing children cases then do something different! Off my soapbox...

 

[amzberry]

That is a wonderful question!
Babies 10 months old are usually on formula-at least here they are for their 1st year. 10 month olds also like their blankie, soft toy or their pacifier.


hummm for me, that actually hints at the mother knowing the baby wasn't abducted.

AFAIK the mother hasn't talked to the 'kidnapper' on how to care for the baby yet. She did ask that the kidnapper bring her home.

Yeah, my thoughts are that they would want it to be the least traumatic for Lisa as possible, and would want to tell the person who took her what would comfort her and keep her well.

The reason I thought of this is because years ago a baby was kidnapped from a prominent couple here in NZ, and one for the 1st things they did was hold a media conference to tell the person who took the baby what forumla to use, what nappies don;t give her rash, her fave toy/food etc It seems very telling to me that Lisa's parents haven't thought to do the same.

The couple I referred to above got their baby back unharmed a week or two later.

 

[jjenny]

We don't know if the 2:30 phone call or text is a fact. It was unsourced by Fox News, as far as I can tell. I think it keeps coming in to theories and speculations because it wasn't confirmed or denied by Captain Young. Below is one of the references to it in a Fox report.

Police said Bradley and Irwin claim three cellphones were also taken from their home. Sources also told the station that a phone call was made from the couple's home at about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday.

"They told us that that morning. What the detectives have done with that I don't know," Young on Thursday. "Clearly it hasn't led to a big break in the case or I'd probably be able to talk about it. I can't get into details of what we're doing, but it's safe to say we're leaving no stone unturned."

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=38321&content=58065842&pageNum=-1

They told us that that morning? Who are they? It would be extremely important to verify, for obvious reasons. If the intruder took the phones, then how could anyone call from the house at 2:30 am unless the intruder came in after 2:30 am, after the phone call was made? I don't understand this phone call business at all.

 

[vlpate]

That is a wonderful question!
Babies 10 months old are usually on formula-at least here they are for their 1st year. 10 month olds also like their blankie, soft toy or their pacifier.


hummm for me, that actually hints at the mother knowing the baby wasn't abducted.

AFAIK the mother hasn't talked to the 'kidnapper' on how to care for the baby yet. She did ask that the kidnapper bring her home.

.....and she said they aren't mad.

I'd be mad as hell.

 

[yllek]

They told us that that morning? Who are they?

Exactly! This is part of the murkiness surrounding that possible call/text. In the snip I posted, I think the "Sources" are unnamed sources who informed the Fox station about it. But, in the quote from the article just underneath that statement, I believe Young is referring to Debbi and Jeremy telling LE that the phones were stolen. The way the article is written is unclear and could be misleading. I believe Young was asked directly about it in an interview and he wouldn't confirm or deny. I'll see if I can ferret that one out.

 

[cluciano63]

They told us that that morning? Who are they? It would be extremely important to verify, for obvious reasons. If the intruder took the phones, then how could anyone call from the house at 2:30 am unless the intruder came in after 2:30 am, after the phone call was made? I don't understand this phone call business at all.

There was a rumor on another site about texts being sent back and forth at this time. And then FOX came out the next day and said that there had been a call at or about 2:30AM, presumably on the one of the phones that were taken or are missing...which has led to speculation that someone was actually using the phone at 2:30AM, possibly someone from the home. LE would not deny it, and obviously would not confirm it, so it is still "out there

(I believe Fox said that an "LE source" told them about the call. They seemed to be inferring that the phones were not really "taken.")
JMO

 

[Peepers]

If the parents are involved....maybe they thought they (or one of them) remembered the call they made at 230 am (if its not a rumor) and got rid of the phones themselves. I dont see a kidnapper grabbing a baby in the middle of the night and stopping to grab 3 cell phones before he/she leaves. Its weird. and allot to carry! If they were plugged in, what did the kidnapper do, set the baby down and unplug the cell phones.. The cell phones make me very suspicious. If we find out there was a call at 230, stick a fork in one or both of them.

 

[jjenny]

Exactly! This is part of the murkiness surrounding that possible call/text. In the snip I posted, I think the "Sources" are unnamed sources who informed the Fox station about it. But, in the quote from the article just underneath that statement, I believe Young is referring to Debbi and Jeremy telling LE that the phones were stolen. The way the article is written is unclear and could be misleading. I believe Young was asked directly about it in an interview and he wouldn't confirm or deny. I'll see if I can ferret that one out.

Yes, it's very unclear, and obviously very important regardless of what LE says to the public. LE doesn't need to have the cell phones themselves in order to get the phone records to see when these phones were used.

 

[vlpate]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

It appears the FBI asking the store clerk those questions about depression was pursuing this angle of motive.

Andrea Yates was diagnosed with this condition, I just don't see DB being so ill. In Yates case the family came forward right away and told of her depression - and Rusty was all "huh"? Of course the children were dead, she obviously killed them and her family had to stand by her.

I don't see DB as the Susan Smith type either. Darlie Routier? I'm not seeing the MO. Unless she's keeping a very deep secret, from everyone, I'm stumped on comparisons and why.

 

[Peepers]

they had a kitten, but no dog, is that right?

 

[marge_rita]

.....and she said they aren't mad.

I'd be mad as hell.

I'd be livid. I would be MAD, real mad. :furious:
By the 8th day, I'd be a lunatic.

I envision the mother of a missing baby acting like Sharon Rocha when Laci was missing.

I would hold a news conference everyday like Mark Lunsford and I'd scream look you *&&^*** bring MY BABY BACK.


imo

 

[vlpate]

Yes, it's very unclear, and obviously very important regardless of what LE says to the public. LE doesn't need to have the cell phones themselves in order to get the phone records to see when these phones were used.

They had Jeremy's work phone. If she texted him, as far as I know, the only way to find out what the text said is to find her phone....records won't show the text. At least they are not accessible to me on my ATT bill.

If she texted, they would have to have the phone to see the text messages. Unless phone companies keep a record....

 

[marge_rita]

lvpate,
IIRC the cell phone co. has a record of all text messages.

 

[Abby Normal]

They had Jeremy's work phone. If she texted him, as far as I know, the only way to find out what the text said is to find her phone....records won't show the text. At least they are not accessible to me on my ATT bill.

If she texted, they would have to have the phone to see the text messages. Unless phone companies keep a record....

I imagine (moo) that if the phone company had a record than LE already has it. Also, I'm not convinced it's just entirely about that one alleged call. I am guessing they want to access all the records- contacts, notes, texts, voicemails, internet history if it is a smart phone, etc. I don't think it's all about that alleged call/text.

 

[vlpate]

I'd be livid. I would be MAD, real mad. :furious:
By the 8th day, I'd be a lunatic.

I envision the mother of a missing baby acting like Sharon Rocha when Laci was missing.

I would hold a news conference everyday like Mark Lunsford and I'd scream look you *&&^*** bring MY BABY BACK.


imo

I have so much respect for Mark Lunsford. How that man didn't end up killing his neighbor.... I can't imagine how horrible his nightmares had to be, and probably still are, imagining his daughter in that devil's trailer...and the horrors of what went on. Same with Marc Klaas, Samantha Runion's mom...and the list goes on and on, and it shouldn't.