Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!

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I think there's a question and answer thread....

But that one says no discussion and what I wanted to do was about 90% discussion and 10% question. I guess I could ask there and then come over here and post the discussion in the form of a theory?
I am slow tonight, sorry :(
 
But that one says no discussion and what I wanted to do was about 90% discussion and 10% question. I guess I could ask there and then come over here and post the discussion in the form of a theory?
I am slow tonight, sorry :(

But be careful when discussing them because they are minors. I received a short timeout here once by accidentally discussing a minor too closely in another case.
 
Maybe they have talked to the boys...I think I read somewhere they did, but I don't have a link, so I can't say it as fact. They may not know anything. This fence is making a crease...I can't make up my mind at all. I don't think I'd be surprised either way - kidnapper or mom/dad involvement.

I really don't get the parents being silent and not out pleading for the public to look any and everywhere for their missing child. Just baffling.

Exactly. As to the questioning of the children in the house, again I can rationalize two sides. 1. the kids were actually sleeping, actually did not hear anything at all or 2. they have said something and LE is trying to break the parents or poi to get to the baby, gone or alive.

Its baffling to me, just when I read or see something I think hmm, maybe it was the parents or the mom. Then I see something else that just immediately changes my mind back to the kidnapper. Definitely intriguing. In the end, LE has been so tightlipped about everything, they have also learned something from the Casey Anthony fiasco. Don't put all your cards are the table in front of the media.

Kelly
 
Exactly. As to the questioning of the children in the house, again I can rationalize two sides. 1. the kids were actually sleeping, actually did not hear anything at all or 2. they have said something and LE is trying to break the parents or poi to get to the baby, gone or alive.

Its baffling to me, just when I read or see something I think hmm, maybe it was the parents or the mom. Then I see something else that just immediately changes my mind back to the kidnapper. Definitely intriguing. In the end, LE has been so tightlipped about everything, they have also learned something from the Casey Anthony fiasco. Don't put all your cards are the table in front of the media.

Kelly

The thing is, if something happened AFTER the boys went to sleep, it is hard to imagine what could have happened after the baby was already tucked in bed, AND harder still to imagine how mom would have dealt with the cover up at that time. imoo
 
I would like to know any theories on motive for murder by DB. The accidental death theory no longer feels valid to me.
 
Exactly. As to the questioning of the children in the house, again I can rationalize two sides. 1. the kids were actually sleeping, actually did not hear anything at all or 2. they have said something and LE is trying to break the parents or poi to get to the baby, gone or alive.

Its baffling to me, just when I read or see something I think hmm, maybe it was the parents or the mom. Then I see something else that just immediately changes my mind back to the kidnapper. Definitely intriguing. In the end, LE has been so tightlipped about everything, they have also learned something from the Casey Anthony fiasco. Don't put all your cards are the table in front of the media.

Kelly
Hey Kelly :)
I don't think LE in the KC case necessarily put it all out there as much as we were benefactors of Florida's Sunshine Law.

There is one case in which I have never faltered, not for a moment, the Jonbent Ramsey case. Even when JMK confessed, I knew it wasn't him. I don't have anything close to that feeling here.

The dad gives me a weird and sometimes creepy feeling, but I think because he is so stoic. Hard to read. I could see a switch shorting out there...but how?

More questions than answers at this point.
 
I have a theory. I don't know if I thought of it or I read hints of it elsewhere. But it's based on the weird things the parents say, and the way they speak. And on the old saying "there's an ounce of truth in every lie."

Hypothetical scenario:

Jeremy is a control freak with anger issues (I pulled that out of the air, but it could be). He goes to work. When? We strangely have never heard a word about this. Anyway, he goes to work.

Deborah goes to bed as she said. Her son comes into her room sometime after she goes to bed, and wants to sleep with her. She says ok. She "likes to sleep with" her boy(s) (she said this in one of the interviews in an awkward moment, but someone, either Jeremy or Jeanine Pirro cut her off as she said it).

Jeremy comes home. Not at 3:30 or 4, but some time before, like around 2AM. Maybe he's trying to catch her in the act of fooling around; maybe he just finished work early, maybe he was actually scheduled to come home and did. We don't know anything other than what he has said about him being at work. No employer or fellow employees have corroborated this.

So Jeremy comes home. He goes into the parent's bedroom and sees Deborah's son in bed with her. This is not allowed. He says (as she has stated in interviews) "why is he in bed with you?" but the context is not what they represented to the media. He is enraged for that and/or some other reason (wine was left out, and he's ticked off that she partied while he worked, jealousy, who knows?).

Somehow, in his anger, he harms the baby. Or accuses Deborah of being an unfit mother and says he's taking the kid to punish her. Whether he has already harmed Lisa in the house, or he hurts her later, he leaves with her. And he takes all the phones. But he calls her (on the landline?) or someone else (or texts) at around 2:30, which is when this is going on (that's if the phone call rumor is true). He goes to the river and that's where the phones and the baby's body are left. (I can't even stand to type this.)

This would explain why the odd statement and contradiction about the boy being in bed with Deborah was part of the media statement. Because it was significant (i.e., triggers his anger), but they screw up when trying to describe the events of the night - their stories don't quite synch (he went to check on the "boys" but one of the boys was right there in bed with Deborah).

And now Deborah is covering for him. Why? If he is an abuser, he may have threatened to hurt her or her son. She keeps referring to "the boys need her back...we need her back" but she never personalizes these statements to say "I want my baby back" because that's not allowed. It will cross Jeremy for her to voice disapproval at whatever he has done.

And LE somehow knows this. But they know Jeremy is cold and won't crack, so they target in on Deborah, give her a lie detector to try to get her to break and tell what she knows about Jeremy, and she does fail, because she is afraid to tell the truth. They think she's an easier target to break, so they are working on her. And that would explain her weird behavior of looking at Jeremy when she speaks (checking with him constantly to see if she's saying the right thing), and it would also explain her tearful episodes.

This could also explain her slip-up when she said "whenever we...whenever I woke up..." during one of the early media appearances. That struck me as so odd, like she caught herself saying something that did not fit with the story they were portraying. When Jeremy returned from the river, they may have gone to sleep until it was the appropriate "time" for Jeremy to come home from his shift, at which time they enacted their story as they told it to the media, pushing the screen out and calling 911..

This would assume that Jeremy's presence at work (continuously) until 3:30AM has not/cannot be corroborated. But isn't it odd that no one has spoken of when he left for work, nor verified his actual presence at work? If I missed that, forget this theory!

I can't come up with how the boys fit into this, except to note that Jeremy said in one of the interviews "the boys are sound sleepers."

I feel bad sharing this theory if it's off base, because it's the opposite of what I felt initially. But it would explain LE's continued focus on Deborah - trying to get her to crack. Then again, Jeremy could be Deborah's dupe.

Anyway, that's the theory.
 
I have gone back and forth on what might have happened to this precious baby. After hearing about the trip to the store where children are clearly not seen shopping with her, I am speculating that mom went to buy wine for someone that is known to the family but is perhaps underage.

My theory is that dad was at work and mom left the boys at home with the baby. Maybe baby is asleep and she didn't want to wake her, thought she could go to the store without anything happening...but something did happen. Maybe she drank some wine (or not), went somewhere after being at the store (or not), but I am thinking the trip to the store was not disclosed to the authorities because it left the children unsupervised during a time that an accidental death happened. She may not have even realized it until much later in the evening. If something happened in her crib, the boys might not even be aware of it. They may have fallen asleep while she was at the store.

The phones would have the evidence of someone calling her and asking her to go to the store to buy the wine and perhaps also a phone call to her husband after discovering what happened to the baby so the phones had to be disposed of. To make it look more plausible, all 3 phones, even the non working one needed to be disposed of.
 
Hey Kelly :)
I don't think LE in the KC case necessarily put it all out there as much as we were benefactors of Florida's Sunshine Law.

There is one case in which I have never faltered, not for a moment, the Jonbent Ramsey case. Even when JMK confessed, I knew it wasn't him. I don't have anything close to that feeling here.

The dad gives me a weird and sometimes creepy feeling, but I think because he is so stoic. Hard to read. I could see a switch shorting out there...but how?

More questions than answers at this point.


I don't know if the Sunshine Law is a curse or not, I spent a lot of time watching video and reading documents!

Yes I would love to have some pieces on dad. At this point I really feel he came home and did something to the baby. He woke up the wife and she only knows the baby is kidnapped. I almost could see if being 'not' a nice guy from his demeanor, but that isn't fact so far so I hate to label him. But something about him isn't right. The dog not parking is huge to me when I try to put things together. The dog should have barked, the other dog should have barked. He made noise coming in that house. He had to wake mom up he says, who knows how long he was there before he woke her up. So, if I have to throw a theory out there, for some reason this mom and dad were having problems. Mom is staying for the baby and dad is jealous, breakdown something. Dad feels like mom spends too much time with the baby? I don't know. But dad is culpable and I will eat crow with everyone else if he is not directly involved in some way.
 
I think the phones are important for LE although I am not sure why. I would think they have access to all calls, texts and pings without the actual phones. But they way they have been going with the metal detectors makes me think there was activity on the phones and that is what keeping LE searching close to the house and the family.
 
I have gone back and forth on what might have happened to this precious baby. After hearing about the trip to the store where children are clearly not seen shopping with her, I am speculating that mom went to buy wine for someone that is known to the family but is perhaps underage.

My theory is that dad was at work and mom left the boys at home with the baby. Maybe baby is asleep and she didn't want to wake her, thought she could go to the store without anything happening...but something did happen. Maybe she drank some wine (or not), went somewhere after being at the store (or not), but I am thinking the trip to the store was not disclosed to the authorities because it left the children unsupervised during a time that an accidental death happened. She may not have even realized it until much later in the evening. If something happened in her crip, the boys might not even be aware of it. They may have fallen asleep while she was at the store.

The phones would have the evidence of someone calling her and asking her to go to the store to buy the wine and perhaps also a phone call to her husband after discovering what happened to the baby so the phones had to be disposed of. To make it look more plausible, all 3 phones, even the non working one needed to be disposed of.
Ok, you've got me thinking now. Maybe she did go out...later that night...around 10:30, after putting the baby to bed and putting a movie for the boys to watch. She could have gone anywhere, who knows, but she wasn't home. I doubt a bar or someone would have seen her.

This is where the phones come in. The kids needed her and she didn't answer the phone because she was "busy" and they were in trouble. (OPINION ONLY) - She left JI's phone with the boys to call her if they needed her. They call and call. All of these calls are on their phone records, but by the time JI and LE see them, she thinks, she will have figured something out.

The baby had an accident
They called and couldn't get mom on the phone to get her home
They are told to never say a word because it is all their fault and they believe her, and say nothing
Phones are thrown away in haste because she couldn't be sure all the evidence was deleted permanently...it was late, she was in a hurry
I can't go there with where the baby is ... too sickening.
Rough, but all of these things are feasible, in my mind.

IMO - and I don't think the boys did one thing wrong, and I'm not accusing then of doing anything wrong....
 
I think the phones are important for LE although I am not sure why. I would think they have access to all calls, texts and pings without the actual phones. But they way they have been going with the metal detectors makes me think there was activity on the phones and that is what keeping LE searching close to the house and the family.

Its possible that early on they were able to locate the phone (s) by the gps. I would imagine by now they would be dead, the only way to locate them would probably be with metal detectors.

Its possible that dad did not want mom calling the police if she woke up before he got back and realised the baby was missing. She wouldn't have been able to call 911 but he conveniently had his work phone to call? I am curious to find about the call supposedly around the 2:30 time frame.

Kelly
 
I think the phones are important for LE although I am not sure why. I would think they have access to all calls, texts and pings without the actual phones. But they way they have been going with the metal detectors makes me think there was activity on the phones and that is what keeping LE searching close to the house and the family.

Where do they have access to texts when there is no phone?
 
I agree that it is an inside job....... but I do bet they will be brought in for more questioning at some point.

I like to give the family a benefit of doubt. However, it could be someone close to the family that could of kidnapped Lisa Irwin. Again, this is what I think. Chances are, Lisa is still alive as most babies who are kidnapped are usually found alive.
 
Where do they have access to texts when there is no phone?

I don't know for sure, but others have said that they can be re-created somehow...if they can't be, then they really do need the phones.
 
Ok...theory.

At the start of this case I was very suspicious of the parents. But as time has gone on I have begun to think that this might just be an abduction. I think it might be someone who had seen the precious baby around the area and decided to snatch her that night. They may have been watching, and seen dad's work truck leave that afternoon. Or maybe they were close enough in the loop to know he was working that evening. I think it may have been someone connected to the neighbor or to the teen, that got their information from them.

I think they walked through the front door. Maybe the neighbor drank wine with mom so she knew mom was going to be sleeping soundly that night. Maybe she innocently told that fact to someone else.

:rose:My hopes are that a childless couple are holding her and feeding her and she will eventually be found safe. :rose:

Recently my husband started traveling to China for work. Until this case, I had always been very free flowing about when he was out of town. And for weeks at a time he would go. I posted on facebook, I said it in passing to neighbors, I mentioned at my child's school in passing... I don't have a death wish, I just never thought of it. I lived alone as a single woman before marrying, and that never phased me, so it never crossed my mine to be hush hush.

I also have a habit of not checking my locks. :rolleyes: This case is making me rethink (and change) my carefree ways.

I don't have a theory yet, but I'm pretty sure this could have happened to me if I'd talked in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everyone keeps saying "who would do that?" and :banghead: that would be me.
 
Where do they have access to texts when there is no phone?

They could get phone records without the phones. It will show when the calls/texts were made, but I am not sure it will show what was in the texts.
 
I don't know for sure, but others have said that they can be re-created somehow...if they can't be, then they really do need the phones.

They obviously can get the times these texts were made at, but I am not sure if they could get the actual texts without having the phones.
 
To be fair....we don't really know what evidence LE has. We don't know what they don't have. It's really too soon to make those kinds of declarations IMHO.

The only information we have is from interviews with the distraught parents, and from the media. Half of what we get from the media is either wrong or exaggerated.

LE has said very, very little, and they have said NOTHING about their evidence in this case.

They have said over and over they have nothing....they even dared anyone to come up with something they haven't. Yeah pretty clear they don't have anything. Leads are drying up. Only 240 kids from the start, usually that number is higher.
 
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