Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!

[Padua]

I come on here every day hoping to read some good news. Every day I'm disappointed.

 

[Abby Normal]

Regarding what YOU WOULD do...

Let me just say that my child went missing once. She's super responsible and is always where she says she will be. I went inside to grab something and the next thing I knew she was gone. I called her name, walked, drove and she was nowhere. Mind you, in the time I was inside my oldest (who was allowed to go further and was on a bike) got a block away and heard me calling and returned. So I know my voice was traveling, and that she couldn't have gotten further than a block on her own. I called 911 within 5 minutes.

1) You really never realize how crazy you will sound on that 911 call. how frantic. Your heart is racing, and you don't describe everything with the detail and clarity you would hope to.

2) You look like an idiot parent, no matter what. And you don't give a flying duck. Your hands are shaking, you can't breathe, you are pissed at yourself. You can't form a complete sentence and you get distracted by your own thoughts. I even STOPPED talking to the police, to tell a neighbor who walked up what was going on (?!) :banghead: Probably because they were familiar and I wanted help?

3) Police INSIST you stay home and wait. They tell you that you are not *allowed* to leave your yard/home/driveway for any reason. They mean business, and I'm pretty sure they would have cuffed me if I'd refused.

4) You give irrelevant details. I never thought to tell them what she was wearing until asked, but guess how many times I explained what I went inside to get? I also repeated that I had already drove around the neighborhood. I forgot to tell them she was on a scooter (I forgot she was on a scooter! it was such a mundane thing to see her on a scooter it hadn't specifically registered)

My daughter had just wandered into someone's back yard with kids we didn't know. They found her within 20 minutes. It was NBG, ultimately, but in those moments until they found her I was a blubbering idiot. I am normally composed and collected, and quite expressive/verbose.

I truly believe you never know what you would do until you have been there.

 

[Niner]

I agree that may be the reason LE has searched so close to the home repeatedly with metal detectors + so forth. I'm not sure if it means a focus on the parents though. IF they have a call/text record which implicates parents, yes. However it's possible someone else could take the phones + ditch them quickly, just to get them out of easy reach of the parent at home + not carry a tracking method along with them as they left the area. It's possible the phone usage can be attributed to whoever that might be + not the parent/s. I do think the phones will be key + they are determined to find them for a few reasons, possible fingerprints being one, location they ended up, condition, content, etc. I'm just not positive that will damn the parent/s, but may in fact be to their benefit, IF they're not involved. I so don't want the parent/s to be involved, so I hold onto that dangling thread of hope. I'm realistic though + realize it's the most likely scenario, sadly.

Where is Lisa? Godspeed baby girl.

Have to agree here! Good points, Codger.
Still behind now 3 days... still with the intruder theory - re the 2:30am call - calling his "partner-in-crime" saying - "I'm in".
I'm wondering if DB's bedroom door was always closed? I'm not in the habit of closing my bedroom door at night - plus she had other kids in the house - seems strange to close the bd door? No?
:waitasec:

 

[momtective]

I'm wondering if all the neighbors who live on the street perpendicular to N. Lister Ave, where the neighbor says he saw a man carrying a baby clad only in a diaper, have been questioned. Do any of them have babies? From what I can tell on google maps, there is only one street this could possibly be. Also was the neighbor going to work or coming home from work at midnight when he saw the man with the baby...I wonder what shift he works? Why is there not a thread to discuss this?

 

[Niner]

She now knows what I did, lol. She was almost mad at first, then she realized SOMEONE could take her baby while she slept right there!
Her hubby is back in the states and she will be moving out (gonna miss my babies sooooo much), so now I feel like she will be extra careful to lock everything and possibly get an alarm system.

I often wonder how people can say every little sound wakes me up. How would you know if you slept through a sound? :waitasec: I'm guilty of saying it too, as is my daughter, but now I think we can safely say we sleep through stuff and don't know it. I hope LE has taken a REALLY good look at anyone who might know that house. I still have hope that baby Lisa is ok. Until they have real evidence (not fb rumor) that the parents are involved I have to say i'm on their side of the fence.

Exactly, mrye! We have train tracks about 100 feet from our bedroom window - and I can sleep thru a train going by - you get used to it!! LOL!
Also, still... :fence:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm wondering if all the neighbors who live on the street perpendicular to N. Lister Ave, where the neighbor says he saw a man carrying a baby clad only in a diaper, have been questioned. Do any of them have babies? From what I can tell on google maps, there is only one street this could possibly be. Also was the neighbor going to work or coming home from work at midnight when he saw the man with the baby...I wonder what shift he works? Why is there not a thread to discuss this?

Had to have been N Chelsea, yes? And if you were to draw a line from the Irwin Home to the dumpster fire, N Chelsea would cut through the center of that line.

Neighbor who saw the man and baby was on his way TO work, I believe.

 

[gwenabob]

Mom had no drivers license and does not know how to drive. So if something happened to the baby that night then she needed an accomplice. Of all of the posters here, how many of us could call our husbands in the middle of the night, after one of our kids died by accident, and would expect him to come home and stage a kidnapping? Mine would call 911 immediately and probably never speak a kind word to me again.

If it wasn't the father, then who helped. I just do not believe that her 20 yr old brother would come over in the middle of the night and dispose of a dead infant. I really cannot accept that thought. imoo

Just to point out--we hear stories of kids driving their parents' cars all the time. Just because one does not hold a driver's license does not mean one could not drive a car.

 

[not_my_kids]

Regarding what YOU WOULD do...

Let me just say that my child went missing once. She's super responsible and is always where she says she will be. I went inside to grab something and the next thing I knew she was gone. I called her name, walked, drove and she was nowhere. Mind you, in the time I was inside my oldest (who was allowed to go further and was on a bike) got a block away and heard me calling and returned. So I know my voice was traveling, and that she couldn't have gotten further than a block on her own. I called 911 within 5 minutes.

1) You really never realize how crazy you will sound on that 911 call. how frantic. Your heart is racing, and you don't describe everything with the detail and clarity you would hope to.

2) You look like an idiot parent, no matter what. And you don't give a flying duck. Your hands are shaking, you can't breathe, you are pissed at yourself. You can't form a complete sentence and you get distracted by your own thoughts. I even STOPPED talking to the police, to tell a neighbor who walked up what was going on (?!) :banghead: Probably because they were familiar and I wanted help?

3) Police INSIST you stay home and wait. They tell you that you are now *allowed* to leave your yard/home/driveway for any reason. They mean business, and I'm pretty sure would have cuffed me if I'd refused.

4) You give irrelevant details. I never thought to tell them what she was wearing until asked, but guess how many times I explained what I went inside to get? I also repeated that I had already drove around the neighborhood. I forgot to tell them she was on a scooter (I forgot she was on a scooter! it was such a mundane thing to see her on a scooter it hadn't specifically registered)

My daughter had just wandered into someone's back year with kids we didn't know. They found her within 20 minutes. It was NBG, ultimately, but in those moments until they found her I was a blubbering idiot. I am normally composed and collected, and quite expressive/verbose.

I truly believe you never know what you would do until you have been there.

I have to agree with this. My son went missing once. He was about 3 1/2. One minute he was asleep in his bed, and the next he wasn't. A million thoughts went through my head: Did he wander outside while I was in the laundry room? Did someone come in and take him? Did he get down to the basement where we keep all the chemicals and sharp pointy yard tools? Did he somehow climb out the window? Literally a million thoughts, most of them irrational, and a good deal of them that aren't even full thoughts...it's like trying to find the right word to finish a sentence, except it's happening in your head. I searched his room three times, and every time I did it, I thought I was searching it the first time. I even went back into the house to get the keys to the car to make sure he wasn't in there...not much sense there, since if I couldn't get in without the keys, obviously he couldn't have either. And every where that you look your brain is screaming at you that you're wasting time, and there's a mental calculation as to how far away your kid could be by now if they were grabbed, and you're trying to remember what they had on, and the last thing you said to them, and the exact minute that you last saw them, and whether you have any enemies...by the time you call the police, even if it's only three minutes later, you sound and act like a complete idiot, a raving lunatic, or a combination of the two.

Luckily, in my case, my son had simply climbed into his toy box, with his blanket and pillow and slept through my screaming his name at the top of my lungs. Wouldn't you know it, the one thing that should have registered (that his blanket and pillow were also gone), I didn't even notice.

So, no, I don't put a lot of stock in that first 911 call in any case, unless the person making the call is able to laugh and joke coherently, or seems to be completely calm, then I might question it a little.

 

[danisisa]

With the reward being at $100k, if her parents were not involved, someone will talk. That is alot of money. People will not pass up that type of money, especially during these economic times.

 

[Niner]

Just curious if you believe the intruder was someone the parents knew and previously was inside the house, at least long enough to get a good layout of it along with the family's routine? And from what I understand, JI didn't normally work at night, so who knew he would be gone this particular night?

good question!! LOL! how about...
this 'intruder' might have first seen DB & kids at a grocery store, decided this was the perfect baby and has been following DB and casing out the house. Sees JI leave for work, and does the deed... :seeya:

 

[jjenny]

Just to point out--we hear stories of kids driving their parents' cars all the time. Just because one does not hold a driver's license does not mean one could not drive a car.

Also, just because the mother doesn't have a valid driving license right now doesn't mean she never had a license or doesn't know how to drive. Not having a valid driver's license only means she can not legally drive, not that she doesn't know how to drive.

 

[momtective]

Had to have been N Chelsea, yes? And if you were to draw a line from the Irwin Home to the dumpster fire, N Chelsea would cut through the center of that line.

Neighbor who saw the man and baby was on his way TO work, I believe.

N. Chelsea does not run perpendicular to N. Irwin...does it? Looks to me like it runs parallel.

 

[Niner]

Did you get a chance to watch Bill S's presser today? He stood in front of D and J's home. I heard a dog barking often.

no, unfortunately, can't watch any internet videos... :maddening: and if he was on TV, it must be local news in MO. First heard about Lisa on local/national news when it happened, have not heard one word about Lisa since then here in California.

Right now as I type - my Huz is taking a nap and the dogs across the street are barking and yipping and he's still asleep! So yes, some people can sleep thru noises happening around them!

 

[gwenabob]

I have a question. For all the posters here who have opined that perhaps Lisa was kidnapped for a person who simply wants a child, when has that ever happened? I mean within the last 20 years or so. The statistics that have been thrown around on these pages say that out of the 200+ babies kidnapped, only 12 are unaccounted for. And I suspect they are probably dead.

I guess I just don't see how the logistics of stealing a baby to have for your own wold work. You can't really do anything with the child in the future without a birth certificate. Can't get a SS#. I just don't see how this theory would play out. I know we have seen quite a few crazed women trying to steal an infant directly from the womb and pass it off as their own, but a 10 month old?

I am sorry to say it, but the statistics overwhelmingly are in favor of someone in the family being the perpetrator of this crime. I really don't think she was stolen for the black market. I think the whole black market baby thing is mostly pulp fiction fantasy. In this country, anyway. But if someone could provide proof of a robust baby black market in the US, I would certainly be open to change my mind.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

N. Chelsea does not run perpendicular to N. Irwin...does it? Looks to me like it runs parallel.

Doesn't "perpendicular" mean that it forms an angle? N Chelsea intersects N Lister, so that's a right angle, isn't it?

Maybe I'm unclear on the definition of perpendicular? Geometry isn't my strong suit. :floorlaugh:

ETA: Okay, looking at this, I think N Chelsea (at least part of it) IS perpendicular to N Lister.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/perpendicular-lines.html (Math is fun? Really?)

 

[Abby Normal]

I have a question. For all the posters here who have opined that perhaps Lisa was kidnapped for a person who simply wants a child, when has that ever happened? I mean within the last 20 years or so. The statistics that have been thrown around on these pages say that out of the 200+ babies kidnapped, only 12 are unaccounted for. And I suspect they are probably dead.

I guess I just don't see how the logistics of stealing a baby to have for your own wold work. You can't really do anything with the child in the future without a birth certificate. Can't get a SS#. I just don't see how this theory would play out. I know we have seen quite a few crazed women trying to steal an infant directly from the womb and pass it off as their own, but a 10 month old?

I am sorry to say it, but the statistics overwhelmingly are in favor of someone in the family being the perpetrator of this crime. I really don't think she was stolen for the black market. I think the whole black market baby thing is mostly pulp fiction fantasy. In this country, anyway. But if someone could provide proof of a robust baby black market in the US, I would certainly be open to change my mind.

How many undocumented people are there in our country? I think that shows that you absolutely can get by without documentation, or with phony documentation.

Also I think that most of the time, the person is not of sound mind to predetermine how to manage this- and that is why many of these individuals are caught.

There was a case some years ago, maybe in MO also(?) of a boy who was kidnapped and then raised not far away by the man who kidnapped him. He was old enough to know he was kidnapped, and yet he didn't run away (mind control, etc) and he was enrolled in school locally (correction, he was not enrolled in school locally). I wish I could remember the name of the child. That was one of the unusual cases where it took years to find him.

That said, you're right- kids being taken by non-family to be raised as their own is a minority figure.

 

[Wendy101]

With the reward being at $100k, if her parents were not involved, someone will talk. That is alot of money. People will not pass up that type of money, especially during these economic times.

BBM: Interesting... and if no one comes forward for that amount of money, then LE can take it as another hint that the parent or parents are involved...

 

[jjenny]

How many undocumented people are there in our country? I think that shows that you absolutely can get by without documentation, or with phony documentation.

Also I think that most of the time, the person is not of sound mind to predetermine how to manage this- and that is why many of these individuals are caught.

There was a case some years ago, maybe in MO also(?) of a boy who was kidnapped and then raised not far away by the man who kidnapped him. He was old enough to know he was kidnapped, and yet he didn't run away (mind control, etc) and he was enrolled in school locally. I wish I could remember the name of the child. That was one of the unusual cases where it took years to find him.

That said, you're right- kids being taken by non-family to be raised as their own is a minority figure.

If you are talking about Shawn Hornbeck? He was not enrolled in school. But he did live with a guy who kidnapped him for years and didn't try to run away.
Until that guy kidnapped another child and that lead to the recovery of Shawn.

 

[BritsKate]

How many undocumented people are there in our country? I think that shows that you absolutely can get by without documentation, or with phony documentation.

Also I think that most of the time, the person is not of sound mind to predetermine how to manage this- and that is why many of these individuals are caught.

There was a case some years ago, maybe in MO also(?) of a boy who was kidnapped and then raised not far away by the man who kidnapped him. He was old enough to know he was kidnapped, and yet he didn't run away (mind control, etc) and he was enrolled in school locally. I wish I could remember the name of the child. That was one of the unusual cases where it took years to find him.

That said, you're right- kids being taken by non-family to be raised as their own is a minority figure.

BBM

Shawn Hornbeck

 

[jjenny]

BBM

Shawn Hornbeck

He was much older than Lisa though. Pedophiles don't usually target children as young as Lisa.