Pacific2011
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I'm beginning to think that JI has more to do with this crime than DB. And not necessarily as an active participant, but perhaps as a target. (MOO)
Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!
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VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215- Latest: photographer4
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I'm beginning to think that JI has more to do with this crime than DB. And not necessarily as an active participant, but perhaps as a target. (MOO)
helpthevictims
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I do not believe the parents are involved in this at all. 1 of 2 things happened. #1 Baby Lisa was taken for illegal adoption or #2 Someone took her for themselves. I think these parents pain is real. I truely belive the answers & the perp will be found in the phone logs of the 3 missing cell phones!!! The police need to go thru each number (if they haven't already) & they will find the kidnapper. I think the mom or dad may have had an encounter with someone that they don't even realize may be significant. Some innocent situation, like had they sold anything recently? ex: baby basinet, cradle, baby carrier, etc. or thru a membership for babies/new mommies, etc. Somebody came in contact with the parents & knew they had a little baby. The kidnapper would be a total loner, would have possible recently moved & changed phone # (that would be a red flag). This is the only logical reason the 3 cell phones would be taken. (clearly the perp forgot about phone logs) I have faith they will find baby Lisa alive & well if they look outside these grief stricken parents. Not every missing child is a Casey Anthony case. The police need to work with them not just look at them. PRAYERS PRAYERS PRAYERS
mck16
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Unless there is dialog or conversation on the phone logs I wonder if they have considered the fact that the call could have been a pocket dial. My friend has an Iphone and it calls me all the time. I don't know what kind of cell phones they had, but I know with many of them this is a common occurrence. No information has been released as to who was called, or texted so this is just a thought I had. May have been posted before. jmo
not_my_kids
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I am curious about the report that the family car had been broken into a couple weeks before Lisa went missing. (I only saw this here, and without a link, so I can't be sure that's really accurate, and if anyone has a news reference for that, please share.)
If there were a spare key in that car, and it were stolen, then I would have a little more inclination to believe the intruder theory. My roommate lost his house keys once, dropped them in the driveway of the house, and someone did grab them. I know that that person did enter my house, although I still to this day don't know for sure who the person was. I don't think they ever went to the upstairs of the house where the children sleep, I don't know why, but I do have the feeling that the fact that my 80 pound pitbull sleeps in front of my children's door may have had something to do with it. The dog never barked, and my roommate who sleeps downstairs never woke up, but I know someone was in the house that night. (things were moved, the front door was left unlocked which we never do because of an autistic wandering five year old, and there was an odd cologne smell in the house). If it hadn't happened to me, I never would have believed that it would happen, because it's just too convienient, if you know what I mean. But, I know that it can happen, I don't know if I believe it happened in this case, but I sure would like to hear more about the car break-in, if there actually was one.
If there were a spare key in that car, and it were stolen, then I would have a little more inclination to believe the intruder theory. My roommate lost his house keys once, dropped them in the driveway of the house, and someone did grab them. I know that that person did enter my house, although I still to this day don't know for sure who the person was. I don't think they ever went to the upstairs of the house where the children sleep, I don't know why, but I do have the feeling that the fact that my 80 pound pitbull sleeps in front of my children's door may have had something to do with it. The dog never barked, and my roommate who sleeps downstairs never woke up, but I know someone was in the house that night. (things were moved, the front door was left unlocked which we never do because of an autistic wandering five year old, and there was an odd cologne smell in the house). If it hadn't happened to me, I never would have believed that it would happen, because it's just too convienient, if you know what I mean. But, I know that it can happen, I don't know if I believe it happened in this case, but I sure would like to hear more about the car break-in, if there actually was one.
helpthevictims
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The main point I am trying to make is phone #'s that stand out as one time calls or twice for example. I just mean that she or he could have had minimal contact with someone. Like Hmmm what's this number? The police need to look at that with the parents & see if there are any clues. If this is strictly a kidnapping, there had to have been some recent encounter for whatever reason for them to know there was little baby. If a person wants a baby bad enough they are going to find one thru ad's/groups/memberships etc having to do with babies. This person would not be a sophisticated criminal, just desperate for a child. Like is said I wonder if they had recently had a ad out maybe on craigslist for example a pennysaver, newspaper. The parents are so distrot (sp) that they may not be thinking of something what seemed so innocent. I just think this is an area they should look at. Anything in this type of mysterious disappearance is a possibility. :waitasec:
There are very few facts in this case. Almost everything is rumor or based on statements made by Deborah and Jeremy, and their statements are not consistent. So this case is a big mess of confusion.
Facts:
1. The baby is missing
2. Deborah went to the store at around 5PM per the store video (she had a box of Franzia in her hand)
3. LE is investigating
Are there any other true valid facts? I'm not asking about things that the parents said. Nothing they have said other than the baby is gone has been substantiated/confirmed by police as far as I know.
And as far as Nancy Grace and the media, they are perpetuating rumors and parents' statements as facts, when they aren't. If Nancy/JVM say one more time that the baby was put to bed at 10:30.......grrrr.
Facts:
1. The baby is missing
2. Deborah went to the store at around 5PM per the store video (she had a box of Franzia in her hand)
3. LE is investigating
Are there any other true valid facts? I'm not asking about things that the parents said. Nothing they have said other than the baby is gone has been substantiated/confirmed by police as far as I know.
And as far as Nancy Grace and the media, they are perpetuating rumors and parents' statements as facts, when they aren't. If Nancy/JVM say one more time that the baby was put to bed at 10:30.......grrrr.
mck16
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The main point I am trying to make is phone #'s that stand out as one time calls or twice for example. I just mean that she or he could have had minimal contact with someone. Like Hmmm what's this number? The police need to look at that with the parents & see if there are any clues. If this is strictly a kidnapping, there had to have been some recent encounter for whatever reason for them to know there was little baby. If a person wants a baby bad enough they are going to find one thru ad's/groups/memberships etc having to do with babies. This person would not be a sophisticated criminal, just desperate for a child. Like is said I wonder if they had recently had a ad out maybe on craigslist for example a pennysaver, newspaper. The parents are so distrot (sp) that they may not be thinking of something what seemed so innocent. I just think this is an area they should look at. Anything in this type of mysterious disappearance is a possibility. :waitasec:
I totally agree with this post. And because of all the oddities that already exist I believe every possibility should be thoroughly investigated. I am thinking that what did happen will be totally beyond what anyone of us has imagined. I just can't get beyond thinking if the baby was dead, they would have found her. I think someone has taken her far away and not for neferious reasons. I want to believe it is because they wanted a baby. That is the only hope I can hold on to.
It doesn't seem that there is anything in either of the parents past that would indicate they would harm this child. And I can't imagine they would just hurt her and throw the body away. I can't and won't believe this until and if it does turn out that way. JMO
The idea that they would have found the baby if she were dead makes no sense to me whatsoever. The baby is quite small and could be easily hidden anywhere. There are adults who go missing, and pretty sure they are dead, but the bodies are never found, or found years and years later. Let alone a small baby.
mck16
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You are right, I am just basing this on other cases. And I am sorry but I cannot remember all the names. Jessica, Celina, Zarah, Dubois, Van Dame, and I am sure more that I cannot think of. Some were found based on evidence and some based on confessions. Even the woman that drowned her two sons confessed pretty quickly. This is just my feeling. I hope I am right. jmo
natsound
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We know so very little about this case, for instance what the children are saying.
Going on what we know right now, I am guessing that DB drank a lot of wine that night, and possibly smothered the baby. Accidentally or on purpose, I don't know. DB had been showing lots of emotion when she was making appearances, and I chalk that up to nervous energy and fear. Could she have dumped the body in the dumpster and set that dumpster fire? If so, I'd think the smell would be overwhelming.
The body might be in the woods. I know authorities have combed the woods, but I was confident that they had combed every inch of the woods in the Anthony case, too.
Going on what we know right now, I am guessing that DB drank a lot of wine that night, and possibly smothered the baby. Accidentally or on purpose, I don't know. DB had been showing lots of emotion when she was making appearances, and I chalk that up to nervous energy and fear. Could she have dumped the body in the dumpster and set that dumpster fire? If so, I'd think the smell would be overwhelming.
The body might be in the woods. I know authorities have combed the woods, but I was confident that they had combed every inch of the woods in the Anthony case, too.
vlpate
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Expounding on something I wrote on the box wine thread...
FWIW, here's what I think. I think DB was sitting around outside with her neighbors having wine, smoking, and shooting the breeze that Tuesday evening. The kids were playing together and it was probably a typical routine for them. They ran out of wine so Deborah asks her brother to run her to the store for more wine and diapers. The reason I think they were already drinking is because a) the wine isle is their first stop and b) DB looks at the coolers first to see if there's any cold wine in her flavor (IMO) because she wants to drink it right away. She sees there is none, so she grabs the box and they head for the diaper isle. She never asks the brother if he likes this or that wine because IMO, he's not drinking. I see only DB paying and grabbing the priority, the wine, and the clerk handing DB's brother the rest of the purchase. As they leave the store the keys are in the brother's hand. He looks totally disinterested in the events of the trip. DB looked happy and in a hurry to get back to wherever she was headed.
The fact that her brother was her ride to the store makes me think he could have been her ride to go somewhere else that night - drug run maybe? I've known people whose routine was much like this on a daily basis, and some had babies in the house that they loved, but that didn't stop them from having a good time. The drugs run out and they go and get more - sometimes it takes hours to procure them. Moms give their babies a little something to make sure they stay asleep while they are gone.
The kitten in the bed with the little boy may have been a trade off to ensure he stayed in bed like a good boy while mommy is gone. "if you get out of bed I will take the kitten away!"
2:30 am - "Ready when you are..." If the unverified text allegation is true, this sounds way too casual to be a signal for burying a dead baby, even for a callous individual. Sounds more like ready to make a run. Again, no idea whether or not this text ever happened, but for this scenario as to why the brother was involved at all, it would make sense.
She gets back home to find she had given little Lisa too much nyquil or sleepy meds. She freaks out but has to stay quiet because the boys are sleeping. She's messed up and can't call the cops because they will see she's messed up - and they might find the drugs that were just purchased. She will look like a horrible mother and JI will kill her (figuratively), if he finds out she drugged little Lisa so she could make the drug run.
Panicked and seeing the time is around 3:30, she doesn't know what else to do but give the baby to her brother and claim she was kidnapped - what about the phones? Take those too and get rid of the text messages. It's getting close to time for JI to get home. Wanting to make the kidnapping scenario look authentic, she opens the window in the computer room and tries to pull the screen off from the inside because she can't reach it from the outside - she's struggling with it when JI's car pulls up. She abandons the effort and runs to bed, if she turned the lights off now he'd know she was awake.
All the emotion she showed to JI, the cops, and the media the next day would be genuine. She didn't kill Lisa on purpose, but she was so drugged up she overdosed Lisa - if anyone found out, she would lose her little boy as well.
Lisa knows what happened and JI probably suspects something is not right.
Of course my theory doesn't hold water as far as the brother if he had an alibi that night. Does anyone know?
If there was an early morning run to the dealers house, the dealer wouldn't come forward, for obvious reasons - BUT - he may turn his entire life around for $100,000!
Virtually every word of this post is IMOO
FWIW, here's what I think. I think DB was sitting around outside with her neighbors having wine, smoking, and shooting the breeze that Tuesday evening. The kids were playing together and it was probably a typical routine for them. They ran out of wine so Deborah asks her brother to run her to the store for more wine and diapers. The reason I think they were already drinking is because a) the wine isle is their first stop and b) DB looks at the coolers first to see if there's any cold wine in her flavor (IMO) because she wants to drink it right away. She sees there is none, so she grabs the box and they head for the diaper isle. She never asks the brother if he likes this or that wine because IMO, he's not drinking. I see only DB paying and grabbing the priority, the wine, and the clerk handing DB's brother the rest of the purchase. As they leave the store the keys are in the brother's hand. He looks totally disinterested in the events of the trip. DB looked happy and in a hurry to get back to wherever she was headed.
The fact that her brother was her ride to the store makes me think he could have been her ride to go somewhere else that night - drug run maybe? I've known people whose routine was much like this on a daily basis, and some had babies in the house that they loved, but that didn't stop them from having a good time. The drugs run out and they go and get more - sometimes it takes hours to procure them. Moms give their babies a little something to make sure they stay asleep while they are gone.
The kitten in the bed with the little boy may have been a trade off to ensure he stayed in bed like a good boy while mommy is gone. "if you get out of bed I will take the kitten away!"
2:30 am - "Ready when you are..." If the unverified text allegation is true, this sounds way too casual to be a signal for burying a dead baby, even for a callous individual. Sounds more like ready to make a run. Again, no idea whether or not this text ever happened, but for this scenario as to why the brother was involved at all, it would make sense.
She gets back home to find she had given little Lisa too much nyquil or sleepy meds. She freaks out but has to stay quiet because the boys are sleeping. She's messed up and can't call the cops because they will see she's messed up - and they might find the drugs that were just purchased. She will look like a horrible mother and JI will kill her (figuratively), if he finds out she drugged little Lisa so she could make the drug run.
Panicked and seeing the time is around 3:30, she doesn't know what else to do but give the baby to her brother and claim she was kidnapped - what about the phones? Take those too and get rid of the text messages. It's getting close to time for JI to get home. Wanting to make the kidnapping scenario look authentic, she opens the window in the computer room and tries to pull the screen off from the inside because she can't reach it from the outside - she's struggling with it when JI's car pulls up. She abandons the effort and runs to bed, if she turned the lights off now he'd know she was awake.
All the emotion she showed to JI, the cops, and the media the next day would be genuine. She didn't kill Lisa on purpose, but she was so drugged up she overdosed Lisa - if anyone found out, she would lose her little boy as well.
Lisa knows what happened and JI probably suspects something is not right.
Of course my theory doesn't hold water as far as the brother if he had an alibi that night. Does anyone know?
If there was an early morning run to the dealers house, the dealer wouldn't come forward, for obvious reasons - BUT - he may turn his entire life around for $100,000!
Virtually every word of this post is IMOO
not_my_kids
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4. The man with her at the store is her brother, according to LE.
5. The fact that LE is searching for the cell phones confirms that they are missing, although at this point, there is no factual way to determine why they are missing or by whose hand.
There is a facts thread, it has some good info and most of the rumors are marked as such.
momtective
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I think Lisa was loved beyond words!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXQ-kXDOX0"]10/15/2011: Just Released - New Missing Baby Lisa Irwin Photos - YouTube[/ame]
***Tissue Alert***
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXQ-kXDOX0"]10/15/2011: Just Released - New Missing Baby Lisa Irwin Photos - YouTube[/ame]
***Tissue Alert***
not_my_kids
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Sorry for what might come up as a double post, but I did want to say that I don't believe Lisa's body was burned in that dumpster. There have been other cases where both young kids and adults have been burned, either in containers or in the open air and there was always evidence left behind, usually bone, because it is hard to get a fire hot enough to incinerate bone, especially in a dumpster. There would be some part of Lisa left if her body were burned. There might have been evidence that was burned in the dumpster, but I don't believe that the evidence was Lisa's body.
mck16
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Let's hope someone does.
vlpate
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Knowing NG, she could be talking about joggers. I can't find anything either.
Abby Normal
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This is great! Because of how different pictures catch different expressions and angles, you need a variety of pictures to really be able to get a sense of the individual and identify- wish a slideshow had been released a long time ago.
natsound
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Yeah, I don't think so either. The thought flitted through my mind, but there would indeed be evidence.
natsound
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This is very well-thought out. I wonder how much Nyquil or cold medicine it would take to cause the death of a baby. To expand on it, little Lisa could have grabbed the bottle herself and drank it like kool-aid.
I've tossed around the drug theory too. If either parent has a "habit", surely police have found some sign of it in the house.
That's why I want to hear more from neighbors. Did they witness rogue people coming and going from the house?
I am positive those cell phones were "taken" for a reason. DB didn't want police to see them. Do we know what phone JI used to call PD?
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