Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[gregjrichards]

I took a screen shot but now I can't find it... so here is a little pic of the above address.

I wonder if any ground searches have ever been done at this address or other addresses. Is it just one house are there any out buildings?

 

[Richard]

Hi!
I am new to this site but have followed this case for years. I grew up in Aspen Hill and was five years old at the time of the Lyon sisters disappearance. I have always thought about the Lyon sisters and hoped law enforcement would someday solve this case. I remember seeing a comment some time ago (I do not remember where and can no longer find it) from the girl who was with the Lyon sisters the day they vanished. She said there was a drifter type by the path to their house. I wish I could remember more or could find the actual comment but have looked everywhere on the web and have not been successful in finding it again. Anyone else remember reading it somewhere? Thanks!

I also recall the posting you mention, but have not been able to locate it in this topic.

As I remember the post, it was not someone WITH the Lyon sisters, but someone who had walked the same route.

I believe that the poster stated that the individual was sitting on the ground near the end of Faulkner and near the Wards parking lot of Wheaton Plaza, rather than near the girls house or the path through the woods.

I do not recall if this reported sighting was on the same day the girls went missing or at some other time. If I find the post, I will link it to this thread.

 

[otto]

I am interested to know this. Would carnival workers get around in an RV at that time or live in a caravan they do in the carnival where I live six miles away.

Where could he pull this crime off without the girls being spotted?

The girls might have been transported across state lines. Maybe unidentified bones were found 30-40 years ago and they weren't recorded correctly.

 

[RNER]

The girls might have been transported across state lines. Maybe unidentified bones were found 30-40 years ago and they weren't recorded correctly.

I agree Otto!

Here is a database for unidentified remains...

https://identifyus.org/en

 

[anna1968]

My name is Anna March (annamarch.com). I'm a writer and I"m working on an essay about this case. I'd be grateful of your help. I'd love to hear thoughts on the questions I have below. I will be speaking to a public info officer on Tuesday — but I don't know that I 'll get much in the way of answers. AS a bit of background, my grandparents lived on St. Margaret's Way, directly off Plyers Mill Road where the Lyon's live-— two doors away from Stephen Knolls Elementary, which was just behind one footpath up to Wheaton Plaza. I knew Sheila and Kate, slightly. (They were older, but I had friends who had older siblings who were friends with them and one of the girls in my carpool was BFF's with them….). When they disappeared, they ran the dogs in the woods (now townhouses) across from my grandparent's house. I have written about them before — their disappearance changed me. I made my will after they died……I was 6. My heart goes out to the Lyon family and I think of them quite often. Thank you for any light you can shed on these questions. Please feel free to respond here or email me — anna@annamrch.com


1. If Welch gave his address to LE on 4/1/75, as the press packet from LE indicates, then they knew his name, right?. So why did they ask for his name in Nov 2013? Here is a link to his sketch circulated by police in Nov 2013, without a name……

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...Assault-Suspect-from-the-1970s-233116121.html

Is it possible that this address was provided to LE for some other reason — not connected to the Lyon sisters case — on 4/1/75?

2. Did LE interview Welch n 1975? If not, how did they get his address on 4/1/11975? Of course they should have interviewed him — he followed the girls and they cared enough to make a sketch…………but if they did, again, how come they did not know his name in Nov 2013? If they didn't interview him, how come they did not?

3. Am I wrong that part of this story, or at least a concurrent story, is that LE did not have this guy on their radar as a POI? Even if they ruled him out in 1975 — they should have kept track of his name — and the names of any other POI's from the time and run the names against convicts from time to time? That way they would have know in 1977 when he was arrested in MD or 1982 when he went to jail or at LEAST when he was first convicted in 1994, of sexual assault of a minor? I mean, it seems to me that LE just ignored the girl who gave the report — or minimized it while they chased microphone man.

It seems impossible to believe — impossible — that the girls were followed by Welch — which we know they were — and abducted by someone else. Only Welch is a known perp, microphone man is not. (My guess is that he recorded girls as some sort of sexual fetish……..that's not the same as kidnapping them.) For those who have expressed skepticism that two such folks were at the Plaza that day — I don't understand the skepticism. The mall – any mall -- on a school holiday was — and is — a hangout for those who abduct or fetishize children. Given the numbers of perps that we know about — not to mention the number of people who sexually fetishze kids but don't actually abuse them — why on earth we would be surprised at two there that day? (That's a rhetorical question.)

4. Why don't they have the name of the security guard they are looking for? They MUST have interviewed all the security guards in 1975, right?

5. Why was Welch in jail in MD in 1982? What was he convicted of at that time? Is that from the 1977 burglary?

6. Fox New reported this apparent LE error, at this link,

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/247092...ts-solve-lyon-sisters-cold-case#axzz2tMblsO00

"In doing our records check, Montgomery County police could not explain a discrepancy in the timeline they provided to reporters.

It says Welch was convicted of sexually assaulting a 9-year-old girl in 1995 but the commonwealth’s attorney in Prince William County, Paul Ebert, could not find a record of the crime or even Welch's name in their files."

Thoughts? Why wouldn't LE either provide the info or say "We made an error."


Thank you for your help. Please feel free to respond here or email me — anna@annamrch.com

 

[anna1968]

related to my post just above -- i'm also happy to set up a time to talk by phone. thanks.

 

[Richard]

.....

1. If Welch gave his address to LE on 4/1/75, as the press packet from LE indicates, then they knew his name, right?. So why did they ask for his name in Nov 2013? Here is a link to his sketch circulated by police in Nov 2013, without a name……
...Is it possible that this address was provided to LE for some other reason — not connected to the Lyon sisters case — on 4/1/75?

2. Did LE interview Welch n 1975? If not, how did they get his address on 4/1/11975? Of course they should have interviewed him — he followed the girls and they cared enough to make a sketch…………but if they did, again, how come they did not know his name in Nov 2013? If they didn't interview him, how come they did not?

3. Am I wrong that part of this story, or at least a concurrent story, is that LE did not have this guy on their radar as a POI? Even if they ruled him out in 1975 — they should have kept track of his name — and the names of any other POI's from the time and run the names against convicts from time to time? That way they would have know in 1977 when he was arrested in MD or 1982 when he went to jail or at LEAST when he was first convicted in 1994, of sexual assault of a minor? I mean, it seems to me that LE just ignored the girl who gave the report — or minimized it while they chased microphone man.

It seems impossible to believe — impossible — that the girls were followed by Welch — which we know they were — and abducted by someone else. Only Welch is a known perp, microphone man is not. (My guess is that he recorded girls as some sort of sexual fetish……..that's not the same as kidnapping them.) For those who have expressed skepticism that two such folks were at the Plaza that day — I don't understand the skepticism. The mall – any mall -- on a school holiday was — and is — a hangout for those who abduct or fetishize children. Given the numbers of perps that we know about — not to mention the number of people who sexually fetishze kids but don't actually abuse them — why on earth we would be surprised at two there that day? (That's a rhetorical question.)

4. Why don't they have the name of the security guard they are looking for? They MUST have interviewed all the security guards in 1975, right?

5. Why was Welch in jail in MD in 1982? What was he convicted of at that time? Is that from the 1977 burglary?

6. Fox New reported this apparent LE error, at this link,

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/247092...ts-solve-lyon-sisters-cold-case#axzz2tMblsO00

"In doing our records check, Montgomery County police could not explain a discrepancy in the timeline they provided to reporters.

It says Welch was convicted of sexually assaulting a 9-year-old girl in 1995 but the commonwealth’s attorney in Prince William County, Paul Ebert, could not find a record of the crime or even Welch's name in their files."

Thoughts? Why wouldn't LE either provide the info or say "We made an error."...

You ask a lot of questions, which are probably on a lot of other peoples' minds as well. Probably only the police have some of those answers, such as when they first spoke with Welch, when he was first arrested, where he lived over the past 40 years, etc, etc.

I would like to comment on something which seems to be a basic misunderstanding that is becoming more and more accepted as a "fact". That is that NOBODY ever stated that WELCH was seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza that day. Two separate alleged testimonies have become merged into one through this misunderstanding.

The First is that a girl, supposedly walking around with the Lyon sisters that day told police that a Long Haired Man was following them around and paying attention to them. She did NOT know who he was but described him to a sketch artist. This information has been with held from the public for the past 39 years.

The Second testimony comes from the 38 year old niece of Lloyd Welch who states that he told her that he was at Wheaton Plaza that day but was just walking around.

The composite sketch seen about 22 November 2013 (only three months ago) was allegedly of an UNKNOWN individual supposedly involved in an unnamed "incident" in Wheaton in 1975. Police were fishing for leads from any possible victim of this individual. Welch was NOT named in that article, and in recent articles about Welch, he was not positively named as being the Long Haired Man (LHM) in the sketch.

One has to be very careful in how the story is told. Everyone seems to be jumping on the MCP bandwagon and accepting beyond a doubt that this "LHM" was in fact Welch and that he was the abductor of the Lyon girls.

MCP obviously has a lot of info that they are sitting on and only releasing a bit here and there. But there is also a LOT that they do NOT have in regard to the Lyon Case and Welch's possible connection to it. They are only now seeking the names of Security Guards who worked at Wheaton Plaza in 1975? They are only now releasing a composite drawing held since 1975. Errors? Nah.

I do not mean to belittle the possibility that Welch could have been involved in the girls disappearance, but at this point I am very reluctant to think it so, without a little more solid information, such as:
- Did he have a vehicle?
- Did he live somewhere on the route the girls took?
- Who was he associated with in 1975?
- Was he actually involved in molesting or abducting children in 1975?

Did someone actually see Welch (and KNEW he was Welch) at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975? At this point we only have HEARSAY testimony from someone who was not even born in 1975 (his 38 year old neice) that he SAID he was there.

Welch probably wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it - and he might have a number of reasons for making such a statement. It has also been stated by police that Welch is NOT cooperating with the investigation. So who knows if he has ever made an official statement to investigators regarding his whereabouts on 25 March 1975?

I believe that the news conference indicated Welch was in a Maryland prison from April 1982 to some time in 1984, but not certain on what charges. It would seem a long time since his 1977 burglary arrest. Unfortunately, on line criminal offenses in Maryland do not exist prior to some time in the 1980's or 90's for most counties. You would have to look into paper or microfilm files at various police stations for crimes of the 1975 era.

Also, there is an on line Maryland inmate locator, but once someone dies or is released from prison, his online record is gone from sight. Some other states continue to list crimes for inmates going way back to the 1960's even if the person only spent a year in jail back then and has long since been released or died. Each state is different in their registries and proceedures.

I would not be so quick to write off the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) as just a harmless old geezer. He was doing something weird by recording the girls at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 and at other malls and other dates prior to that. He disappeared at the same time the Lyon sisters did and was never seen again in any of the area malls. He was last seen walking in the direction of Montgomery Wards, and could easily have placed himself in a vehicle in their back parking lot to observe the arrivals and departures of any neighborhood children.

I grant that this Unknown Long Haired Man (LHM) might also have been a pervert or predator following the girls around. Time will tell. Wish we had more information on him and his activities.

 

[RNER]

I find it interesting that 39 years after the disappearance of these 2 girls that there is finally a "person of interest" from information, interviews, and witnesses almost 40 years ago. No "newly discovered" evidence or information has been released to suddenly cause the FBI or LE to look at Welch as a "person of interest". I wonder what triggered this "breaking news", complete with the extensive timeline and plea for the public's help in gathering additional information.

He was sentenced to 29 years in 1998, which seems like a lengthy sentence to me. He has asked for early release and has a Pardon Hearing in July, which if released, would mean he only served half of his sentence. Maybe this explains the need to gather more information and link him to other crimes (so he won't get released early).

I wish we knew details of the crimes that caused him to be sentenced to prison for 29 years!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...330-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html?hpid=z3

"The details of the Delaware case are not clear, but court papers show that he pleaded guilty in 1998 to several sex offenses. Officials said he is due to be set free in 2027 but has asked for early release. The Board of Pardons has scheduled a hearing for July."

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.delawareonline.com/story...-felon-eyed-in-1975-child-abductions/5410279/

Welch was arrested in Delaware on July 19, 1997, on a number of unlawful sex charges, according to Superior Court electronic records. Welch pleaded guilty to first-degree unlawful sexual intercourse and unlawful sexual penetration on Jan. 5, 1998.

 

[anna1968]

You ask a lot of questions, which are probably on a lot of other peoples' minds as well. Probably only the police have some of those answers, such as when they first spoke with Welch, when he was first arrested, where he lived over the past 40 years, etc, etc.

I would like to comment on something which seems to be a basic misunderstanding that is becoming more and more accepted as a "fact". That is that NOBODY ever stated that WELCH was seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza that day. Two separate alleged testimonies have become merged into one through this misunderstanding.

The First is that a girl, supposedly walking around with the Lyon sisters that day told police that a Long Haired Man was following them around and paying attention to them. She did NOT know who he was but described him to a sketch artist. This information has been with held from the public for the past 39 years.

The Second testimony comes from the 38 year old niece of Lloyd Welch who states that he told her that he was at Wheaton Plaza that day but was just walking around.

The composite sketch seen about 22 November 2013 (only three months ago) was allegedly of an UNKNOWN individual supposedly involved in an unnamed "incident" in Wheaton in 1975. Police were fishing for leads from any possible victim of this individual. Welch was NOT named in that article, and in recent articles about Welch, he was not positively named as being the Long Haired Man (LHM) in the sketch.

One has to be very careful in how the story is told. Everyone seems to be jumping on the MCP bandwagon and accepting beyond a doubt that this "LHM" was in fact Welch and that he was the abductor of the Lyon girls.

MCP obviously has a lot of info that they are sitting on and only releasing a bit here and there. But there is also a LOT that they do NOT have in regard to the Lyon Case and Welch's possible connection to it. They are only now seeking the names of Security Guards who worked at Wheaton Plaza in 1975? They are only now releasing a composite drawing held since 1975. Errors? Nah.

I do not mean to belittle the possibility that Welch could have been involved in the girls disappearance, but at this point I am very reluctant to think it so, without a little more solid information, such as:
- Did he have a vehicle?
- Did he live somewhere on the route the girls took?
- Who was he associated with in 1975?
- Was he actually involved in molesting or abducting children in 1975?

Did someone actually see Welch (and KNEW he was Welch) at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975? At this point we only have HEARSAY testimony from someone who was not even born in 1975 (his 38 year old neice) that he SAID he was there.

Welch probably wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it - and he might have a number of reasons for making such a statement. It has also been stated by police that Welch is NOT cooperating with the investigation. So who knows if he has ever made an official statement to investigators regarding his whereabouts on 25 March 1975?

I believe that the news conference indicated Welch was in a Maryland prison from April 1982 to some time in 1984, but not certain on what charges. It would seem a long time since his 1977 burglary arrest. Unfortunately, on line criminal offenses in Maryland do not exist prior to some time in the 1980's or 90's for most counties. You would have to look into paper or microfilm files at various police stations for crimes of the 1975 era.

Also, there is an on line Maryland inmate locator, but once someone dies or is released from prison, his online record is gone from sight. Some other states continue to list crimes for inmates going way back to the 1960's even if the person only spent a year in jail back then and has long since been released or died. Each state is different in their registries and proceedures.

I would not be so quick to write off the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) as just a harmless old geezer. He was doing something weird by recording the girls at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 and at other malls and other dates prior to that. He disappeared at the same time the Lyon sisters did and was never seen again in any of the area malls. He was last seen walking in the direction of Montgomery Wards, and could easily have placed himself in a vehicle in their back parking lot to observe the arrivals and departures of any neighborhood children.

I grant that this Unknown Long Haired Man (LHM) might also have been a pervert or predator following the girls around. Time will tell. Wish we had more information on him and his activities.

--------------
richard -- i get what you are saying -- and appreciate your input. however, right down to the scars on his cheek, the sketch matches welch. it's pretty clear that it was him -- at least to me. you are correct -- LHM was identified by the girl who was the lyons. the police have not said that the sketch of LHM is welch for sure. only his niece, with whom he is close, puts him at the mall that day -- reporting his words. that she was born after this occurred isn't relevant is it? she didn't purport to be there, she was merely reporting.

i am speaking to the police public info officers and FBI on tuesday -- we will see what they have to say.

as i stated in my first question, i'm particularly interested in how the police got that address that they say was provided by welch on 4/1/75 to LE. is it a coincidence -- traffic stop or some such (seems unlikely)-- or did they interviewed him at that time? the post on april 4, 1975 says the police interviewed a suspect in PG county in the past couple of days. i wonder if it was him.

again, if it was welch who is the man in the sketch -- and i believe it was -- then it seems impossible to believe they were followed by someone who has a record of sexually assaulting girls -- and most perps start years and years before they are caught, so it fits, right? -- and then abducted by someone else. that seems to be staggeringly unlikely to my mind. possible -- but most anything is possible.

please don't misunderstand what i'm saying about TRM -- i would NEVER call him "harmless". i think using kids as objects for fetishistic reasons is victimizing them and is harmful --- but it's not abduction. ...and it seems unlikely that someone who is so out there and visible with such odd behavior would abduct...........and there are no other cases of missing girls where he was identified. ..and of course he disappeared after this case -- he couldn't be seen again using that MO in the area after that. i'm sure he just changed his ways and/or moved to a different area.

as for you q's: not sure how his associates at the time would necessarily make him more of a suspect at the time....... most perps aren't associated with other perps/criminals, are they? i think of our dr. bradley here in DE where i live who was a pediatrician and i think of sandusky and i think of coach/deacon dan stallings at st. john's in silver spring and and and....heaps of others. most folks can get access to a car from a girlfriend, friend, boss, etc -- at least for a while. ..... and while it doesn't seem that welch lived near where the plaza, he was known for walking those tracks and hanging out in that area....and of course one of the most popular routes to the castle in forest glen -- where LE tells us he hung out, as well as near the tracks -- as every schoolchild who rode bikes back there as i did in the 70's knows, is down plyers mill where the lyon family lived and lives over to either st. paul or metropolitan over to the crossroad at the tracks/castle at forest glen rd. ......and of course welch was convicted of burglary back there not far from the lyon house/plaza 2 years later. ....and finally, as i said above, most perps perp for years before they are caught -- so this would fit.

one other note -- i saw your comment on the carnivals/fairs. i believe it is incorrect. you said --

"There were no carnivals in the area at that time. The main "carnival" time would be in September when each county had a week long County Fair.

There might be other times (mostly during the summer) when carnival rides might be brought to a shopping mall. But there were no such rides at Wheaton Plaza on the week in question"

how do you know there were no carnivals there at that time? the police said in the press conference they didn't know, so i'd be curious as to your source. via research this week, i have tracked down info on all sorts (dozens) of spring carnivals, with rides, that took place in the DC metro area in the 1970's -- churches, schools, malls, the fire departments -- and possibly wheaton plaza. hundreds in summer. i was surprised at all that we found......... my research associate is working on piecing this all together. i think it's likely that there was an easter carnival with rides at/near wheaton plaza-- i'll keep you posted on what we learned. i also have reports from several people of recollections of a spring carnival there at the plaza....... we'll see if those pan out to be true. but really, even if there was it doesn't change things -- nor does it change things if there was not. also, each county in MD doesn't have a fair in sept -- they are spread out among july/august and september. the montgomery county fair is august -- and has been since at least 1974.

one last thing -- my point isn't so much about whether or not welch is the one responsible for the lyon sister's disappearance -- though i hope he is proven to be for whatever peace it might bring their family. my interest is in whether or not the police adequately handled the information provided to them by the young girl who was with the sisters that day.

thanks again. i REALLY appreciate your input.
---anna

 

[Mountain Misst]

--------------
richard -- i get what you are saying -- and appreciate your input. however, right down to the scars on his cheek, the sketch matches welch. it's pretty clear that it was him -- at least to me. you are correct -- LHM was identified by the girl who was the lyons. the police have not said that the sketch of LHM is welch for sure. only his niece, with whom he is close, puts him at the mall that day -- reporting his words. that she was born after this occurred isn't relevant is it? she didn't purport to be there, she was merely reporting.

i am speaking to the police public info officers and FBI on tuesday -- we will see what they have to say.

as i stated in my first question, i'm particularly interested in how the police got that address that they say was provided by welch on 4/1/75 to LE. is it a coincidence -- traffic stop or some such (seems unlikely)-- or did they interviewed him at that time? the post on april 4, 1975 says the police interviewed a suspect in PG county in the past couple of days. i wonder if it was him.

again, if it was welch who is the man in the sketch -- and i believe it was -- then it seems impossible to believe they were followed by someone who has a record of sexually assaulting girls -- and most perps start years and years before they are caught, so it fits, right? -- and then abducted by someone else. that seems to be staggeringly unlikely to my mind. possible -- but most anything is possible.

please don't misunderstand what i'm saying about TRM -- i would NEVER call him "harmless". i think using kids as objects for fetishistic reasons is victimizing them and is harmful --- but it's not abduction. ...and it seems unlikely that someone who is so out there and visible with such odd behavior would abduct...........and there are no other cases of missing girls where he was identified. ..and of course he disappeared after this case -- he couldn't be seen again using that MO in the area after that. i'm sure he just changed his ways and/or moved to a different area.

as for you q's: not sure how his associates at the time would necessarily make him more of a suspect at the time....... most perps aren't associated with other perps/criminals, are they? i think of our dr. bradley here in DE where i live who was a pediatrician and i think of sandusky and i think of coach/deacon dan stallings at st. john's in silver spring and and and....heaps of others. most folks can get access to a car from a girlfriend, friend, boss, etc -- at least for a while. ..... and while it doesn't seem that welch lived near where the plaza, he was known for walking those tracks and hanging out in that area....and of course one of the most popular routes to the castle in forest glen -- where LE tells us he hung out, as well as near the tracks -- as every schoolchild who rode bikes back there as i did in the 70's knows, is down plyers mill where the lyon family lived and lives over to either st. paul or metropolitan over to the crossroad at the tracks/castle at forest glen rd. ......and of course welch was convicted of burglary back there not far from the lyon house/plaza 2 years later. ....and finally, as i said above, most perps perp for years before they are caught -- so this would fit.

one other note -- i saw your comment on the carnivals/fairs. i believe it is incorrect. you said --

"There were no carnivals in the area at that time. The main "carnival" time would be in September when each county had a week long County Fair.

There might be other times (mostly during the summer) when carnival rides might be brought to a shopping mall. But there were no such rides at Wheaton Plaza on the week in question"

how do you know there were no carnivals there at that time? the police said in the press conference they didn't know, so i'd be curious as to your source. via research this week, i have tracked down info on all sorts (dozens) of spring carnivals, with rides, that took place in the DC metro area in the 1970's -- churches, schools, malls, the fire departments -- and possibly wheaton plaza. hundreds in summer. i was surprised at all that we found......... my research associate is working on piecing this all together. i think it's likely that there was an easter carnival with rides at/near wheaton plaza-- i'll keep you posted on what we learned. i also have reports from several people of recollections of a spring carnival there at the plaza....... we'll see if those pan out to be true. but really, even if there was it doesn't change things -- nor does it change things if there was not. also, each county in MD doesn't have a fair in sept -- they are spread out among july/august and september. the montgomery county fair is august -- and has been since at least 1974.

one last thing -- my point isn't so much about whether or not welch is the one responsible for the lyon sister's disappearance -- though i hope he is proven to be for whatever peace it might bring their family. my interest is in whether or not the police adequately handled the information provided to them by the young girl who was with the sisters that day.

thanks again. i REALLY appreciate your input.
---anna

If I might suggest that any carnival company's itinerary be checked against the FBI list of our POI's whereabouts on certain days and you will likely get the company that this POI worked for. Or wait until your meeting with the FBI, which might be more fruitful.

 

[SophieRose]

1. If Welch gave his address to LE on 4/1/75, as the press packet from LE indicates, then they knew his name, right?. So why did they ask for his name in Nov 2013? Here is a link to his sketch circulated by police in Nov 2013, without a name……

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...Assault-Suspect-from-the-1970s-233116121.html

Is it possible that this address was provided to LE for some other reason — not connected to the Lyon sisters case — on 4/1/75?

I don't think LE knew his name when they put that sketch out in Nov 2013. So if they didn't know his name then, who is the person that identified him? Relative, former friend, victim? His stepmother lives out of state out of the area now so she would not have seen it.

But something puts him in the mall on 3/25/75. At first I thought his name might be in some sort of log that security kept (not about the following the girls but something else he did that day) and then they interviewed him on 4/1/75. May dismissed him as a POI because of age and perhaps not having a vehicle.

But maybe 4/1/75 talk to police is related to another suspicious activity, nothing related to the disappearance of the girls.

And what about the sexual assaults in Silver Spring and Takoma Park mentioned in the Nov report, did they have similar descriptions of a suspect but no sketch? Or maybe they have sketches but they don't want to confuse the public because they are primarily looking at the Lyon girls disappearances.

Also sketch says he was wearing white pants, could that be part of some uniform.

 

[SophieRose]

Read comment from Nia about an article at the time where a saleswoman said the girls looked worried and kept looking behind themselves as if someone were following them.

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/north-chevy-chase-md/T9MJ1SGETI858D5OK/p5

 

[anna1968]

also, richard, i want to correct one thing you say -- ".......that NOBODY ever stated that WELCH was seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza that day. Two separate alleged testimonies have become merged into one through this misunderstanding."

that's incorrect. both the FBI and MoCoPolice said this in their press release this week:

"Investigators say Lloyd Lee Welch, dob: 12/30/1956, aka: Michael Welch, was noticed paying attention to the sisters the afternoon they disappeared."

 

[gregjrichards]

Read comment from Nia about an article at the time where a saleswoman said the girls looked worried and kept looking behind themselves as if someone were following them.

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/north-chevy-chase-md/T9MJ1SGETI858D5OK/p5

Thanks for posting this link it is very interesting.

Did you read post 5 – guy flirting possible attempted abduction, post 22 guy asking girl strange questions on phone at home possibly tape recorder man, post 30 – a guy with a tape recorder asked a girl questions at school sports field, post 46 - possible attempted abduction guy showed girl child *advertiser censored* photos and finally post 64 - attempted abduction

I’m inclined to believe the information in these posts it's very strange what happened to these girls in the same area at the time. It gave me the chills I hope the police investigated the information they were given.

In the states do they not have historic census, property tax records, DMV, IRS or even motor insurance records with Lloyd Welch’s address for the dates where they don’t know where he was staying? Perhaps they do have all this information I don’t know.

I understand that he would not be updating the authorities where he was going if he was committing crimes. I just wondered about this because here in the UK you have to fill in forms every year to say who is living in your house. You have to let the council know when someone moves into your address and when they leave. To get motor insurance or go on someone else’s policy you have to give your name and address. It is a crime to drive without insurance here in the UK.

Can members of the public send letters or emails for the hearing scheduled for Lloyd Welch in July like we do for people highlighted in the Caper forum to keep him in jail or is it a different kind of hearing to a parole hearing? If we can write in is there a way to remain anonymous? For safety I’m not keen on him knowing my real name or anyone else's real name on here.

 

[Richard]

also, richard, i want to correct one thing you say -- ".......that NOBODY ever stated that WELCH was seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza that day. Two separate alleged testimonies have become merged into one through this misunderstanding."

that's incorrect. both the FBI and MoCoPolice said this in their press release this week:

"Investigators say Lloyd Lee Welch, dob: 12/30/1956, aka: Michael Welch, was noticed paying attention to the sisters the afternoon they disappeared."

IF this is indeed true, then it would have to mean that the origional girl who claimed to have been with the Lyon Sisters on 25 March 1975 and gave information to the sketch artist, has now (only recently) positively identified Welch from a photo line-up, and the FBI and MCP believe her absolutely - case closed.

More likely, the writer of that particular news story simply did as I mentioned in my post: merged the two separate bits of information given at the press briefing and reported Welch's identification in 1975 as fact.

I have seen similar instances of this type of eroneous reporting many times in the past, including in this case.

Do not misunderstand me. I firmly support further investigation into Welch's behavior, crimes, travels, etc. Obviously the police have been doing quite a bit of research prior to releasing the information that they have. But why would they be seeking the public's help if they have it all closed up? Obviously they have much more information than they have released, but almost as obviously, they are a ways off from knowing everything.

I wonder why the FBI has now gotten into the act. Except for possibly some assistance with specific clues or some profiling, they have not done much in the past. Now, they are listed as the point of contact for tips on this case.

 

[Richard]

....In the states do they not have historic census, property tax records, DMV, IRS or even motor insurance records with Lloyd Welch’s address for the dates where they don’t know where he was staying? Perhaps they do have all this information I don’t know....

...Can members of the public send letters or emails for the hearing scheduled for Lloyd Welch in July like we do for people highlighted in the Caper forum to keep him in jail or is it a different kind of hearing to a parole hearing? If we can write in is there a way to remain anonymous? For safety I’m not keen on him knowing my real name or anyone else's real name on here.

Each state and county in the state has their own system regarding property records, addresses, motor vehicle license addresses, etc. Much of that is on computer these days, but records as far back as 1975 would mostly be on paper and microfilm files. During the 1975 investigation into the Lyon Sisters' disappearance, there was a statewide search for a tan 1968 Ford Station Wagon. Investigators had a possible partial tag number. They had to search paper files in all Maryland counties to try to find the registration. A long and tedious process.

Regarding Parole hearings - and this is probably what the press is talking about in regard to Welch wanting an early release - each state has its own procedures and laws governing such hearings. But in general, YES you can send a letter or e-mail to the parole board prior to a hearing. The Website Forum members might be able to provide specific procedures for Delaware, or give you a link to the Parole Board's website.

Regarding anonymity, you could request that your name be withheld in the letter, but that might not be necessary. Again each state will have different procedures, but I do not think that the prisoner has the right to see all the correspondence regarding his parole hearing. In fact, some states simply do a paper review of the case and there is no actual face-to-face meeting with the inmate.

 

[anna1968]

IF this is indeed true, then it would have to mean that the origional girl who claimed to have been with the Lyon Sisters on 25 March 1975 and gave information to the sketch artist, has now (only recently) positively identified Welch from a photo line-up, and the FBI and MCP believe her absolutely - case closed.

More likely, the writer of that particular news story simply did as I mentioned in my post: merged the two separate bits of information given at the press briefing and reported Welch's identification in 1975 as fact.

I have seen similar instances of this type of eroneous reporting many times in the past, including in this case.

Do not misunderstand me. I firmly support further investigation into Welch's behavior, crimes, travels, etc. Obviously the police have been doing quite a bit of research prior to releasing the information that they have. But why would they be seeking the public's help if they have it all closed up? Obviously they have much more information than they have released, but almost as obviously, they are a ways off from knowing everything.

I wonder why the FBI has now gotten into the act. Except for possibly some assistance with specific clues or some profiling, they have not done much in the past. Now, they are listed as the point of contact for tips on this case.

----------
richard:

1. i'm not sure why you say "IF this is indeed true.....More likely the writer of that particular news story....." about a quote i gave you and spelled out for you was sour
1. i'm not sure why you say "IF this is indeed true.....More likely the writer of that particular news story....." about a quote i gave you and spelled out for you was sourced directly from the FBI and MoCoPo. there's no "IF" -- i've provided the links below -- and there's not error in a news story, because as i told you in my earlier posting, i'm quoting the FBI and MocoPo releases directly, not a news tory. AGAIN: both MoCoPo and the FBI stetted last week in their respective releases that: "Investigators say Lloyd Lee Welch, dob: 12/30/1956, aka: Michael Welch, was noticed paying attention to the sisters the afternoon they disappeared."

here is the link to the FBI statement of such:
http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-...napping-of-lyon-sisters-others-victims-sought

here is the link to the MoCoPo statement of such:
http://www.mymcpnews.com/2014/02/11...apping-of-lyon-sisters-others-victims-sought/

2. you say: "then it would have to mean that the origional girl who claimed to have been with the Lyon Sisters on 25 March 1975 and gave information to the sketch artist, has now (only recently) positively identified Welch from a photo line-up, and the FBI and MCP believe her absolutely - case closed... why would they be seeking the public's help if they have it all closed up?"

no, not true it would be case closed and theres lot's of reasons they'd be seeking the public's help now.

first, even if the girl -- either then or now -- said that the man who followed sheila, kate and her that day was welch -- id'ing him in person or via photo --and the police believed her, it wouldn't be "case closed". just b/c he followed the girls doesn't give them evidence or proof that he kidnapped them, etc.

also, it's ENTIRELY possible that the police were given the info by the girl in 1975, made a sketch, circulated the sketch (not to the widespread public, but at the plaza, perhaps), questioned welch, decided he was not a suspect, and NEVER circled back at the time and had the girl identify welch via photo/live line up as the man who followed them. that is entirely possible -- likely even......and it's possible that now she can't id him -- if she's even alive -- and even if she did, she's now making an ID based on a memory from 39 years ago -- not quite the strongest evidence.

so -- lot's of reasons they need the public's help -- clearly, they aren't at case closed status, even if they do have the ID from the girl on record from then or now -- which they may not.

3. i was told by the FBI last week that they have jurisdiction now b/c it is a multi-state case -- that is, involving a POI who is a known to be a perp who has committed crimes in more than one state, not necessarily that the lyon sister's case itself involves multiple states. i understand from others that there has also been a change to FBI procedure since 1975 that now allows them to be more directly involved in missing child cases where any of the victims are under the age of 12, as kate was, regardless of whether there was interstate travel in the case.

 

[Motherof5]

You ask a lot of questions, which are probably on a lot of other peoples' minds as well. Probably only the police have some of those answers, such as when they first spoke with Welch, when he was first arrested, where he lived over the past 40 years, etc, etc.

I would like to comment on something which seems to be a basic misunderstanding that is becoming more and more accepted as a "fact". That is that NOBODY ever stated that WELCH was seen following the girls at Wheaton Plaza that day. Two separate alleged testimonies have become merged into one through this misunderstanding.

The First is that a girl, supposedly walking around with the Lyon sisters that day told police that a Long Haired Man was following them around and paying attention to them. She did NOT know who he was but described him to a sketch artist. This information has been with held from the public for the past 39 years.

The Second testimony comes from the 38 year old niece of Lloyd Welch who states that he told her that he was at Wheaton Plaza that day but was just walking around.

The composite sketch seen about 22 November 2013 (only three months ago) was allegedly of an UNKNOWN individual supposedly involved in an unnamed "incident" in Wheaton in 1975. Police were fishing for leads from any possible victim of this individual. Welch was NOT named in that article, and in recent articles about Welch, he was not positively named as being the Long Haired Man (LHM) in the sketch.

One has to be very careful in how the story is told. Everyone seems to be jumping on the MCP bandwagon and accepting beyond a doubt that this "LHM" was in fact Welch and that he was the abductor of the Lyon girls.

MCP obviously has a lot of info that they are sitting on and only releasing a bit here and there. But there is also a LOT that they do NOT have in regard to the Lyon Case and Welch's possible connection to it. They are only now seeking the names of Security Guards who worked at Wheaton Plaza in 1975? They are only now releasing a composite drawing held since 1975. Errors? Nah.

I do not mean to belittle the possibility that Welch could have been involved in the girls disappearance, but at this point I am very reluctant to think it so, without a little more solid information, such as:
- Did he have a vehicle?
- Did he live somewhere on the route the girls took?
- Who was he associated with in 1975?
- Was he actually involved in molesting or abducting children in 1975?

Did someone actually see Welch (and KNEW he was Welch) at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975? At this point we only have HEARSAY testimony from someone who was not even born in 1975 (his 38 year old neice) that he SAID he was there.

Welch probably wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it - and he might have a number of reasons for making such a statement. It has also been stated by police that Welch is NOT cooperating with the investigation. So who knows if he has ever made an official statement to investigators regarding his whereabouts on 25 March 1975?

I believe that the news conference indicated Welch was in a Maryland prison from April 1982 to some time in 1984, but not certain on what charges. It would seem a long time since his 1977 burglary arrest. Unfortunately, on line criminal offenses in Maryland do not exist prior to some time in the 1980's or 90's for most counties. You would have to look into paper or microfilm files at various police stations for crimes of the 1975 era.

Also, there is an on line Maryland inmate locator, but once someone dies or is released from prison, his online record is gone from sight. Some other states continue to list crimes for inmates going way back to the 1960's even if the person only spent a year in jail back then and has long since been released or died. Each state is different in their registries and proceedures.

I would not be so quick to write off the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) as just a harmless old geezer. He was doing something weird by recording the girls at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 and at other malls and other dates prior to that. He disappeared at the same time the Lyon sisters did and was never seen again in any of the area malls. He was last seen walking in the direction of Montgomery Wards, and could easily have placed himself in a vehicle in their back parking lot to observe the arrivals and departures of any neighborhood children.

I grant that this Unknown Long Haired Man (LHM) might also have been a pervert or predator following the girls around. Time will tell. Wish we had more information on him and his activities.

Ok...here we go.

1. "The First is that a girl, supposedly walking around with the Lyon sisters that day told police that a Long Haired Man was following them around and paying attention to them."

Supposedly? Really? But Jimmy seeing the TRM is fact? Interesting.

2. "Everyone seems to be jumping on the MCP bandwagon"

This may be due to the fact that MCP don't appear to think TRM is worth discussing anymore as they are not currently nor have they been for many years,asking the public for tips about him. It seems that they are done with that story.

3."Welch probably wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it"

Is this because he looks nothing like the TRM sketch? Is it because he's a RSO? Fred Coffee is a RSO that could not be placed at the mall or anywhere near the girls on 3/25/1975 and yet you considered him a strong suspect. When his age didn't add up to the age of TRM from the description given by Jimmy,you suggested that he may have altered his appearance. You worked very hard to make Fred Coffee stick.

4. "I would not be so quick to write off the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) as just a harmless old geezer. He was doing something weird by recording the girls at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 and at other malls and other dates prior to that."

You are claiming that TRM is real and that it's a FACT that he was at the mall that day. Your only proof of this is the story told by Jimmy...several days after the girls went missing. As for the other TRM claims,it makes more sense that TRM2 is the person seen at the malls and he had an alibi for 3/25/1975. 2 separate TRM's is just too far fetched IMO. Yet you down play the possibility of Welch being the perp and when it comes to the witness,a friend of Kate and Sheila, telling LE what she saw as she was with them, you say,"that a girl, supposedly walking around with the Lyon sisters"....supposedly...she didn't see TRM talking to the girls so her story is reduced to...supposedly.

We have a friend of Kate and Sheila,who was walking around with them, telling LE about a guy that was paying special attention to the girls. This friend gave a description of the man and a sketch was made. Then we have Welch,a RSO who has admitted to being at the mall on 3/25/1975. Is Welch the man in the sketch? Who can say? But he sure looks like the sketch. Did Welch have a car? LE hasn't said yet but his girlfriend,Helen,was 3 years older than Welch so there is a very good chance that she had a car. Welch was arrested for burglary on Hobson...this road intersects with McComas and that is right where the girls would turn to go into the woolds for the short cut home. He is known to walk the railroad tracks in the area as well as hang around the Annex in Forest Glen, which is about 3 miles from the Lyon neighborhood. He was familiar with the area.

5. "HEARSAY testimony"

So Welch's niece telling LE that Welch said that he was at the mall on 3/25/1975 is hearsay testimony however Jimmy's claim that TRM was not only at the mall but was also talking to the girls...this a fact. Jimmy saying that he heard TRM ask if the girls were interested in any sports,that is a FACT and in no way HEARSAY,right? Because any info coming from Jimmy and any info that makes TRM the perp...that info and only that info can be considered factual. Anything else gets a response of...hearsay,supposedly,wouldn't know the truth if he stepped in it.

I cannot speak for anyone else and as far as opinions and theories go,I'm happy to be jumping on the MCP bandwagon because they,unlike anyone in this forum,have the actual facts. They have more info than we do. And they have good reason to leave TRM back in 1975 and focus on a man who they believe has a very good chance of being the man who took Kate and Sheila. There shouldn't be a battle of the perps going on in here. There should only be a search for the truth.

 

[Richard]

Link to the actual press conference held by Montgomery County Police and FBI

Here is a link to the Montgomery County Community Media website which includes the entire video of the press conference held by Montgomery County Police and FBI concerning the latest lead in the Lyon case.

The Chief of Police, does indicate in his opening statement that Welch was seen in the mall that day and that he was paying attention to the girls. However, toward the end of the briefing, he shows the composite sketch of the unidentified (in 1975) Long Haired Man who was seen following or watching the girls, and beside it a photo of Welch, saying that there is a resemblence. He does not state that they are in fact one and the same person.

He goes on to state that the detectives have re-interviewed witnesses (none specified) from that time and are seeking others who might know of Welch and his activities over the past decades.

Welch was identified in the briefing as a "Person of Interest", which is short of naming him a "Suspect" in the case.

As I have stated many, many times in the past, this is an open and ongoing investigation by the Montgomery County Police. As seen in this joint briefing, the FBI is now also involved in the investigation.

LINK:

http://www.mymcmedia.org/a-lead-in-the-lyon-investigation-video/