long weekend break: discuss the latest here #101

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IT'S CLINICAL JUDGMENT, SIR/MADAM.:furious:

Don't forget 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. I ordered a ham sandwich because in my 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, they're the best. I watch American Idol because in my 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, it's the best show. The sun rises in the East because in my 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, that's the way the sun does it.
 
This was my sense as well. I did not get the sense that they were necessarily agreeing with him. Even the question about whether she could have "snapped" seemed genuine to me. A lot of times when some horrible crime occurs, the friends & neighbors will say the perpetrator "snapped." I think the idea has basically been debunked by now, but it's a legitimate question. I personally didn't read too much into these questions beyond a genuine desire to know the answer.

We have no idea how many of the 18 jurors are submitting questions. Some of them might not ask any questions while others have submitted multiple questions for witnesses. I'm usually inquisitive but would not have submitted any questions for Dr. Samuels because I don't like the guy and don't trust most of what he's said on the witness stand. For the most part, I'm getting the sense that the jurors are basically on the same page. :moo:
 
That is rather strange that they would have negative feelings about a prosecutor unless perhaps they or their family have at some time been prosecuted for some criminal conduct, or have fears that they will be. How else could / would they hold a strong opinion one way or another, unless they empathize and side with the criminal ? JMO

If I weren't paying attention to the trial and know exactly what was going on I too would probably think he's out of control BUT I've watched from opening arguments and appreciate his way of doing things.
I imagine him late at night, sleep deprived and overworked just wanting to go to sleep. Then thinks about a tearful conversation with a family member earlier in the day, looks at Travis' picture and goes back to work. I truly believe he feels it's his job to speak for TA and I'm pretty sure TA would be a lot louder than Juan if he had the chance to speak his mind.
 
Hope no one minds, just wanted some insight on this, moved over from end of last thread. I haven't been able to watch all of the trial. I have a question that maybe some of you can help me with. I am pretty much the same height and weight as TA but 20 years older. I can think of no way a 115 pound female could stab me 29 times unless I was physically restrained. After the first stab, I would be in fight for survival mode. I might not survive, but she would surely be at least seriously injured if not killed. You might get stabbed once if it was from behind. The second stab would be a glancing blow as you turned towards your attacker. There wouldn't be a 3rd stab wound except maybe a defensive wound to the hands or forearms. I would think any 200 pound man could incapacitate any 115 pound woman with a single blow. From that point it would go very badly for the smaller incapacitated attacker. I believe the gunshot was forensically proven to have occurred after the stabbings. But even at that a .25 pistol is not immediately debilitating under most circumstances. It makes me wonder if that's why JA removed the ropes from the scene. Were they used in the commission of the crime? Was TA tied up either as sex play or at gunpoint before the knife attack occurred?

Late last night the movie "Basic Instinct" was on. In the beginning of the movie, a woman ties her lover's hands by rope, to the bed, starts having sex with him (her on top). Grabs an ice pick and start stabbing him, over and over. Sharon Stone and Michael Douglas starred in this thriller from years ago but I've thought about this movie since the beginning of this trial. I can imagine Jodi coming up with a fantasy based upon this scenario. I've been questioning the use of the duct tape every since the beginning and have not yet read or heard of any explanation. I would assume that Travis would have left hairs on the tape if he had been restrained with it. I wish that forensics would have given some info on this.
 
JA diriver's license had her at 125 lbs. and I do not know how much TA weighed. First of all we do not know for sure if any ropes really existed. We would need to believe a huge liar, JA and I personally don't believe anything she says, she has just lied too much.

Who knows what happened first. TA was in the shower and possibly not paying attention to JA, other than hoping she would go away. I believe it was certainly possible that TA being in the shower did not see the knife wound to his heart if taken by suprise. That wound would not have killed him right away, but it was the beginning of him bleeding to death, that wound would have killed him once all the blood was gone.

After he stumbled out of the shower, that may have been when the stab wounds to his back began and she could have chased him into the other room. He would have been bleeding and coughing up blood as he tried to get away. I believe it would be easy to see how a 125 lb. woman could have gotten the better of him, because at that point he was in serious trouble. She had the advantage with the suprise attack, and so he had the disadvantage.

He was also naked and most likely slipped on the tile floor, cause he was wet. If he fell she would have been all over him. I can see it happening. I used to practice wrestling with my brother who was larger and heavier than me, but sometimes I was faster than he was!

She said he was grabbing at her clothes, think of her plunging that knife in a frenzy while he is naked, coughing blood and gasping for air. Evil witch.
Why didn't the good doctor ask her family what types of movies and TV shows Jodi watched? Books read? What did she talk about, obsess over?
 
There is nothing wrong with discussing the possible symbolism of blood in sleuthing a murder. Spilled blood as atonement for sin has a long history stretching back thousands of years across continents and across religions. The Mayans practiced human sacrifice with the blood being allowed to cascade down the steps of the Mayan pyramids. The symbolism of blood has morphed over the centuries and we see it in Orthodox Jewish practices and in Catholic and Protestant communion where the blood of Jesus is symbolized and consumed in the wine.

Discussing blood atonement in early Mormonism is no different than discussing The Inquisition - it is history and is not done today. Correct me if I am wrong, but we cannot learn about from the past if we do not allow free speech concerning our history.

There are plenty of murderers who kill for religious reasons and this does not cast aspersions on religion, rather we understand that these people are deranged. In my opinion, which I expressed in another post, I believe Arias has a blood phobia and was enraged that Travis' murder made such a mess. If she dropped the knife and screamed, it was at his thwarting her neat plan to enjoy stabbing him and seeing his pain while not having to mop up or see blood.

There is no evidence that she cared about Travis atoning for anything, no evidence that she was anything but a religious opportunist. IMO, she liked the glitz of the PPL conventions, the hot hot parties and the instant acceptance she received there as a middle class or upper middle class person as opposed to the lower class parasite she really was.

There is no need to bash exMormons or anyone else conducting a reasonable discussion of blood atonement in the West or in the East, the past or in the present as it might relate to a murder in question.

We are all after the same thing--justice for Travis.

Beautifully expressed!!!

However, I do suspect Jodi had the much-written-about Mormon "blood atonement" act in mind when she slit Travis' throat. In fact, I don't put it past her to have used that stray cup in the shower to taste some of TA's blood.

Jodi is extraordinarily sick. Anything is possible with her -- the weirder, the more plausible. I mean:

-- Doing a headstand in the police interrogation room?

-- Searching through the police waste basket?

-- Butchering and shooting a guy in 62-seconds?

-- Leaving a camera documenting all of this in a WASHING MACHINE?

-- A murder that starts in a shower as if straight out of "Psycho?"

-- Telling a jury you thought Mormon practice didn't allow vaginal sex but anal sex was sanctioned -- so you brought plenty of KY-Jelly?

-- Acting like a **advertiser censored** yet sending an *anonymous* threatening email to a girl about her alleged "whoredom"?

-- Sleeping under someone's Xmas tree when they clearly don't even want you in their home?

In my mind, the only thing missing from the above list is slitting your ex-lover's throat as if conducting an old-fashioned Mormon blood atonement.

Lastly, the theory about JA having a blood phobia is interesting. But I can't see stabbing someone nearly 30 times when you have a fear of blood.

Plus, didn't she say she'd considered moving to SF to join a vampire cult? Maybe she has a blood thing, but the total opposite (like Angelina Jolie)?
 
Hope y'all don't mind an O/T post. Several of you who are crime victims or have family members with issues have posted amazing stories of what you've gone through. I'd like to also recognize the people who choose to work with people with various disorders as patients.

Our daughter is barely a month into a six-month music therapy internship at a state hospital in another state. There are various different groups of patients there with behavioral / drug / psychiatric / (whatever) issues, and yesterday she was working with a Crisis Stabilization group the music therapists normally don't work with. The description is: "Individuals in crisis who are experiencing a critical disruption in their ability to function in the community and will likely be stabilized within two weeks." This is what she sent us last night. Yikes! BTW she is maybe 5'2".
I was on a different unit today and I've been on it since about 12:30, and today's a different day because I didn't get off at 4:30 like usual. I'm going to be doing stuff until 8:30. Anyway, there's this one male patient who's been a real problem today. He has mild MR and has no boundaries for personal space, and within the first 20 minutes of knowing him I saw him punch my supervisor of the day in the face. I was standing next to my supervisor because she was sitting down with another patient, and I didn't notice this but he sat down behind me on the floor and was admiring my butt apparently, and the supervisor told me to move away and I did. He got closer again and I didn't realize because he was behind me so she told me to move again. She then told him that he was being inappropriate and then he got mad and started pushing a chair at her while he was still sitting down, but then he got up and started swinging at her, but some big guy restrained him to the floor. Then a little while later he was saying "hi beautiful" to me, and my supervisor said "her name is (snipped), you should call her that" and he said "but I want to call her beautiful" and she said "but we prefer if you call her (snipped)" and he got mad and pushed her and said "I HAVE A RIGHT TO CALL HER BEAUTIFUL." Both of those incidences were right in front of me, and in this incident, he got in between us because she walked forward and I walked backwards, and I didn't know what to do but then she told me to go into another room. I had never wanted to unlock a locked door so badly and so quickly haha. So I got into another room. A little while later I was walking and I saw him he was hitting walls and stuff, so I stopped walking and then I think he was going to hit my supervisor again but like 4 or 5 people restrained him to the floor. He's the scariest person I've seen so far, and he's shorter than I am because he's like a dwarf kinda. This is my first time on this unit, and I want it to be my last.
 
I keep expecting to hear Samuels shout "INCONCEIVABLE!"

:floorlaugh: O/T - I can't believe how many WSers know that movie. I never get tired of watching it.

And Juan's retort "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means". :floorlaugh:
 
I just went and looked at the court docket for y'all cause that's just the kinda girl I am :) It's a motion preventing the disclosure of the detailed defense billing records that they have to submit to be compensated by the State.

Thanks :) I've been to the site and see:

3/22/2013 MOT - Motion - Party (001) 3/22/2013
NOTE: DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER

but I've never been able to figure out how to get more info. Where did you go to find the info about the defense billing records? TIA
 
I loved that exchange! And IIRC Wilmott got up so quickly to object she darn near knocked her chair over. :lol:

The two defense lawyers amaze me with their body language and speaking style in the courtroom. You have Nurmi, whose objections drip with sarcasm; and Wilmott who sounds like a petulant teenage girl arguing with her father. I wonder if they watch the trial footage afterwards, and if they do, do they learn anything from it. When JM objects it's always in a calm and professional tone of voice. The other two come off like they're in High School debate club. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Willy's eye rolls and obvious anger when she gets overruled are unprofessional, to say the least.
 
Something else that has been nagging me and I would like to see if any WSers noticed this as well. During Jodi's testimony covering her "foggy" drive into the desert following the murder of Travis, she mentions that she came out of the "fog" to discover she had blood on her and that she was barefoot. She stated that she had left her shoes behind. Well, I've looked everywhere and have not seen any mention of Jodi's shoes being found at the crime scene. Have any of you seen anything? We do know that she had on a pair of black socks in the photo where she is dragging Travis down the hallway. There were socks in the washing machine.
 
Has there been any notification or discussion about why the DT has filed a Motion for Protective order today?

Anyone??
 
Something else that has been nagging me and I would like to see if any WSers noticed this as well. During Jodi's testimony covering her "foggy" drive into the desert following the murder of Travis, she mentions that she came out of the "fog" to discover she had blood on her and that she was barefoot. She stated that she had left her shoes behind. Well, I've looked everywhere and have not seen any mention of Jodi's shoes being found at the crime scene. Have any of you seen anything? We do know that she had on a pair of black socks in the photo where she is dragging Travis down the hallway. There were socks in the washing machine.

No shoes left behind! She probably tossed them with the murder weapons!
 
OT: Katiecoolady is posting her courtroom observations now on that thread. She included the donation information that Samantha Alexander gave her as well.
 
I got in a short snark-fest early Wednesday morning (reminder to self: if you can't sleep stay off WS, read a book) about this whole issue. I said something to the effect that having compassion, however slight, for Jodi or "Dr." S was the sign of a decent human being and that people shouldn't be criticized for it. Then some people assumed that if they DIDN'T feel compassion that I was saying they weren't decent human beings, which wasn't my intention at all. Sigh. It's a difficult issue. I can understand the fury people feel towards JA. I'm not criticizing either attitude.

Hah. i hear ya. It's always best for me to stay away from the interwebs when I am in a bad mood.

I agree that compassion is a basic human emotion. People just can't understand how anyone can have compassion for JA. I can understand it from the standpoint that JA has a way of manipulating some people's emotions. Not everyone is going to fall for it. I am sure she set off some BS meters, and that's why TA's friends didn't like her. But, some people fall for it hook, line and sinker. JA is considered attractive, by our society standards, and she looked a lot better when she was first arrested. I can see a man of a certain age looking at her and feeling pity for her because he, like SO many, can't imagine this small woman being able to do something so viscous without there being some kind of precursor to the action. Then she talks to them in this "poor me, pity me" voice and it pulls at their heartstrings. We saw an example of this attempted manipulation in the interrogation tapes with Flores. Unlike the Good Doc, Flores didn't fall for it. So, yea, for whatever reason this doctor felt compassion for JA, he felt sympathy, he felt sorry for her. And although he claimed that he was able to turn off that compassion - you know, like it's a switch - after he gave her the book, it doesn't seem very likely to me.
 
OT: LMN 3:00 cst movie: "Karla", about Paul Bernardo and his wife!
 
Front license plates are not required in Arizona.

That's a great point. She knew that and immediately removed the front plate of the CA rental car to further limit her chances of detection.

When I first moved to AZ I had a car with OH plates. Even though the front plate is required in OH, I never put it on in AZ cause I didn't like them, and I'm sure local law enforcement was none the wiser.
 
Has there been any notification or discussion about why the DT has filed a Motion for Protective order today?

Anyone??

Not that I know of, but they have filed one earlier in the case? I think before trial started. I could not tell if it was Defense or Prosecutor that needed it.

But I will say in a high profile trial this is not all together shocking? Televised also makes this more worrisome that weirdo's come out of the woodwork. I would not be surprised at all if there were death threats against the defense team (and even the prosecutor) Some might seem to have merit and if they trace any of them, you better believe the person making the threat will be in big trouble.

I wonder if we will be privy to what the details were?
 
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