long weekend break: discuss the latest here #113

[Sherazhad]

I really hope Martinez trips this new witness up, as she was testifying there were 100's of questions I wanted to ask her, such as:
-You say that the fact that Jodi didn't complain to police or indeed anyone is that many abused women don't, is it also possible that there was nothing to complain about?
-Much of your testimony was reliant on what Jodi told you. Jodi has testified that she repeatedly lied in this case, how do you know that she isn't lying now?
-You talked of factors that keep abused women with abusive men, such as children, financially dependent, sharing a house etc., would you agree that this is not the case with Jodi?
-Isn't it a generalisation that it's always the man who is the abuser? Isn't it true that many women also abuse men?
-You testified that signs of a controlling partner are looking at their phone, facebook etc. without permission. Are you aware that the defendent has admitted to this behaviour?
-Looking at the interview with 48 hours, Jodi presents herself as comfortable in not only talking with reporters, but repeatedly lying, smiling & laughing. Is this normal behaviour for a woman who has been abused, who has come out of a traumatic relaitonship where she feared for her life?
-Is it usual for an abused woman to kill her abuser then travel to meet her new boyfriend & 'make out' within hours?
-Isn't it true that you have only one side of the story from an admitted liar & that the other person is dead & can't answer back?
I'm sure Martinez's questions will be far better than mine. I hope he gets to question her soon & the defense attorneys don't keep her there for days!

 

[elmomom]

Why was the female detective that was questioning JA trying SO HARD to get JA to make up an excuse for her actions? Suggesting that she was a victim of circumstance, that she got caught up in something and it went too far, and even suggesting that maybe JA was there but that someone else did it. Why would she keep saying things like, "you don't seem like a cold-blooded killer" and "how do you want to be portrayed, as a cold blooded killer or as someone who is the victim of circumstance?" She was essentially offering up various scenarios and begging JA to pick one.

I don't understand her method of questioning JA at all.

It is a classic interrogation, IMHO. Try to give her a "softened" version to confess to. Once she confesses, it is all downhill (for Jodi) from there. Jodi did amazingly well for an inexperienced criminal - because she is a psychopath, and those methods don't work on them. No method works well with them!

 

[The Farm]

This reenactment photo helped me to understand the 'dragging' photo.
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad229/magoocz/draggingphotoreinactment_zpsb2ce6af5.jpg

And this is how I saw it without Jodi until Elley Mae posted the smaller picture.

 

[Truth Detector]

No one sits on the floor of their shower without a reason, of course. However, remember how Jodi said when they were fighting one time he ran upstairs and was banging his head on the linen closet door?

Well, here's my thought. If Travis didn't KNOW that Jodi was there (see, testimony of DB about secret shower pixs she took of him; and Jodi's own adamancy that Travis would NEVER even let her WATCH him shower let alone take pictures of it), he might have turned and caught her taking the pictures. Rather than roaring out of the shower in a rage, I see him slowly sliding down into that position where he maybe sat for a few seconds and banged his head against the shower wall behind him.

Then he turns and looks right into the camera with that expression of such pathos. She opens the door - flash, pix of torso - he is getting up to get out (maybe reaches to turn off shower; maybe reaches up to get assist) and she stabs his chest thinking he will collapse and die (like the movies depict). But he grabs the wound and comes out of the shower.

Now he turns his back to her at the sink (see, Travis blog about how he handled his mother's blows), and while he is coughing out blood, Jodi is stabbing the grouping on his back and the wounds behind his ear and on scalp. JODI is the one saying, "*advertiser censored**ing kill you, ***** (my kids call both women and men by that term).

Travis tries to stop the knifing with his hands, turning to face her he is stabbed in the front, but also he is trying to escape down the hallway. JODI thinks you are not "going to get help from the neighbors." He falls on all fours at the carpet edge saying, "I can't feel my legs." There is and has been a lot of screaming going on so Jodi (standing) reaches down and slashes his throat. Travis (again struggling to get on his feet at the moment of the cutting) falls over backwards. Jodi is backing up and hits the camera - Travis is finishing his fall with one arm slightly raised. This is what I see on that picture because there is an immense amount of blood running over his shoulder.

Travis is making noise still because of his death throes (while working victim services in a probation and parole department, I read many pre-sentencing reports where the perps say they escalated the violence to make the victim stop making "that sound"). Jodi DOES get the gun from the closet because the closet door closest to the shower is about where she would be standing at this point (her purse is probably by the inside closet door where she set it when she started taking the pictures). Bang, she shoots him (the casing ejects and lands atop the blood by the sink). Travis is a bloody mess. Jodi is a bloody mess, and the shower has been running with the door open through it all. So she hauls Travis and herself into the shower and starts the clean up.

Jodi is full of rage alright, but it is from her narcissism, not the pent up anger of a battered woman. Travis never lifted a hand against her except to fend off the blade.

Excellent!

[So similar -- virtually identical -- to my take.]

 

[cubbeegirl]

I was just over in the court observers thread and Kaddy Wonders noticed this and I had to piece it together in my mind. So I did so by making a Youtube video to explain it to myself. I made the video for casual court room observers as well as fanatic trial watchers. I totally missed this during JM's cross of JA.

Jodi Arias Trial - Did Jodi shoot or stab first - YouTube

My company that was here for a week left and I have been trying to catch up.. I was a good girl and refrained while they were here...
I am trying to view this video..it says it has been removed ? Help please !
TYIA

 

[leebee52]

I really hope Martinez trips this new witness up, as she was testifying there were 100's of questions I wanted to ask her, such as:
-You say that the fact that Jodi didn't complain to police or indeed anyone is that many abused women don't, is it also possible that there was nothing to complain about?
-Much of your testimony was reliant on what Jodi told you. Jodi has testified that she repeatedly lied in this case, how do you know that she isn't lying now?
-You talked of factors that keep abused women with abusive men, such as children, financially dependent, sharing a house etc., would you agree that this is not the case with Jodi?
-Isn't it a generalisation that it's always the man who is the abuser? Isn't it true that many women also abuse men?
-You testified that signs of a controlling partner are looking at their phone, facebook etc. without permission. Are you aware that the defendent has admitted to this behaviour?
-Looking at the interview with 48 hours, Jodi presents herself as comfortable in not only talking with reporters, but repeatedly lying, smiling & laughing. Is this normal behaviour for a woman who has been abused, who has come out of a traumatic relaitonship where she feared for her life?
-Is it usual for an abused woman to kill her abuser then travel to meet her new boyfriend & 'make out' within hours?
-Isn't it true that you have only one side of the story from an admitted liar & that the other person is dead & can't answer back?
I'm sure Martinez's questions will be far better than mine. I hope he gets to question her soon & the defense attorneys don't keep her there for days!

JM is going to ram home the idea that everything the DV expert relied on was JA's stories and since everyone on the planet knows what a liar JA is, the DV expert's testimony while interesting means nothing pertaining to this case. I'm not worried AT ALL about the Violet's words.

 

[Sunny_In_AZ]

Only the sensational headline suggests such an outcome: "Survey: Results Suggest Acquittal Not Death Likely in Jodi Arias Murder Trial"

Tanya Young has changed the title of the article. In the comment section she claims the title was a misprint. It now reads:
Survey: Results Suggest Acquittal Nor Death Likely in Jodi Arias Murder Trial

 

[leebee52]

My company that was here for a week left and I have been trying to catch up.. I was a good girl and refrained while they were here...
I am trying to view this video..it says it has been removed ? Help please !
TYIA

Me too...I thought all of ours were gone Friday but one decided to stay until late today. I kept trying to watch JA on TV but they were always talking so loud and dominating everything that I gave up.

 

[Sleuth5]

As she has clearly stabbed, sliced, carved, slashed and butchered him to death by the time this photo is taken, there can be no other reasonable explanation but that she is dragging him along that bloody tile floor the easiest way possible for her; i.e., from behind him, by his hands/forearms which she has already slashed and sliced. Because, curse him and hang it all, he's going to die in that blasted shower, just like she planned it.

This case has an over-abundance of evidence proving JA's premeditation murder of TA beyond even the desperate, lying doubts her team is trying to fabricate -- let alone a reasonable one.

If this jury doesn't convict on murder one with DP, then there is probably no crime with any amount of evidence upon which this jury would find any defendant guilty as charged.

Even after Casey Anthony, I choose to believe that there are people -- even juries -- who collectively retain some modicum of respect for truth and the rule of law.

BBM lease:

 

[momof7]

Excellent!

[So similar -- virtually identical -- to my take.]

This is what I think could have possibly happened as well. It just makes more sense to me that TA was not aware.

Also, for the 64 dollar question is why doesn't TA have more defensive wounds if he was coming after her in this moment of rage. Why doesn't JA have more, a black eye, cuts bruises something. TA was not a small guy, what we would call in my part of the woods, a 'beefy' guy. Not tall, just built.

If TA, the bigger of the two was so full of rage, running attacking JA would have more visible wounds herself. With the amount of wounds and the viciousness of the attack against TA, the only thing I can come up with is he was in shock and didn't have time to defend himself. He knew he was hurt and wounded (hence him telling her to get help per JA in the intruder story). He was not looking to fight back he was looking to live.

Makes it even worse for me to know that IMHO. I wish we could know the truth. But I feel like it had to be a sneak attack. He thought she was gone and she decided to come back.

Kelly

 

[SusieD]

Im not convinced that's a foot. Looks more like coagulated blood to me.

I've gone past "not convinced" no 'absolutely no way" that's a foot. It's blood that happens to be in the shape of a foot.

The position - it's coming out from under TA's shoulder
The scale - completely off
It's not a foot

 

[Sleuth5]

Quite awhile ago, someone posted this theory: the cellphone calls indicate that Jodi called Travis and left a message that she wanted to apologize. He finally calls her back, and she says, hey, I'm in the area and I really want to apologize for what I did. I was so wrong. I want us to still remain friends. He agrees she can stop by and she issues heartfelt apology. She initiates "makeup sex." And go on from there.

IMO this theory makes perfect sense. It covers all the bases and explains why he let her in the door. OTOH, I know that Anagrammy, who's a Mormon, says this is not possible. If Travis had indeed gone to his bishop to confess his sexual relationship with Jodi, he would never, ever wanted agree to see her again -- that would have been a requirement by the bishop. So while I think the above theory is quite possibly true, it may not be.

I don't know, seems reasonable to me. I think there's a little too much being made of the whole bishop thing. Travis was a human being. He may have simply succumbed to temptation. Assuming that there was something superhuman about him, or attributing absolutes to his behavior (he would never do that after confessing to the bishop) doesn't seem consistent with what we already know to be true.

I am not bashing the man. I am simply saying that laying down the religion card as though that would have been the last word on the subject is not consistent with the facts as we know them.
:cow:

 

[SuperTmo]

It's a common tactic, the idea is to convince the person that you don't think what they did was so bad, that you think they probably had good reasons, to make them feel comfortable, like the consequences of confessing won't be so bad after all.

Makes sense... it's just frustrating to watch JA essentially ignore the woman until the woman says maybe Travis was "roughing her up" and asks if he had ever been violent before and then JA started talking about how he was violent before and she had had bruises. It's like she went from saying Travis had never hurt her w/ Flores and then this lady suggested it and all of a sudden Travis was a violent bully.

On the plus side of this woman's techniques... she offered JA all these scenerios and JA tried several of them on for size over the 4+ years she was in jail before this trial started. So, in the end maybe it was a good technique after all? LOL... because it allows JA to really show her slimy, lying, and manipulative ways.

 

[Sleuth5]

BBM Except who sits like that in a shower? Someone on another thread mentioned they had tried it and couldn't get up without rolliing over and out.

ITA. Never have sat in a shower (without a built in seat) on purpose. Of course, that's just me. Travis was a tall guy -- just sitting down in there when it's wet would be an exercise in avoiding a slip. Why would you do that voluntarily?

:cow:

 

[a/k/a me]

The name identification -- or alias, if it is -- satisfies ABC, the State prosecutor's office, and the judge with respect to its authenticity.

I've seen no information to the contrary.

Thank you for your response. I had read at another site that a check on his background/personal history kept coming up blank at a certain point in the recent past, either sealed or nonexistant.

 

[fuzzybutter]

I wondered too if he wasn't bluffing her. But, I can't believe that no one heard or saw anything. Like the gun shot for instance.

It was hot that day. I assume everyone was inside with the AC on. It was also a small gun.

 

[minor4th]

I've still only seen the first 5 videos, but here are the things that jumped out at me. Curious what other's think.

When Jodi moved out of Rachel’s, the new place was within Travis’ ward boundaries (according to Jodi).

Yes, and she claims she didn't know how close it was to Travis, and claims she purposely wanted to avoid being in his ward -- yet she knew she was moving within his ward boundaries. I think she moved close to him intentionally to put pressure on him, to monitor him, and to position herself so she could transfer to his ward because she planned to manipulate her way into his ward.

How does she know Travis wrote in long letter to Sky Hughes and what Sky sent in response?

She read his emails cuz she had his passwords. What's interesting to me is that while she was talking to the female detective, she came right out and said she found out stuff about Travis in part because he told her, but some things she found out by reading his emails because she had his password for his email account -- like it's totally normal behavior.

Travis was trying to make Jodi look bad in the Hughes’ eyes with story about tow truck driver (concerned with losing their respect).

I missed this part, but I do think Travis bad mouthed Jodi to the Hughes to make them think he was no longer in any kind of relationship with her because that's what the Hughes wanted. Travis had some boundary issues too.

Jodi has a lot of trouble explaining why she didn’t leave Travis. It is not a question she expected to be asked. Real reason is obvious?

I agree - she never thought about it because she wants what she wants and she'll get what she wants by any means possible. She doesn't seem to understand how totally aberrant her behavior is and because of this she fails to even try to cover for some of her behavior. If she had any insight into her own behavior, she would know how others perceived her and she would have understood that EVERYONE would immediately suspect her for murdering Travis.

Jodi never physically reacts to what Flores says.

Never. She doesn't care too much - I don't even think she cares a whole lot about being in jail or being convicted. She's satisfied that she eliminated what she perceived to be the source of her pain. That matters a whole lot more to her than anything else IMO

Jodi clearly believes French maid’s outfit photo was sent as a joke. Flores says Travis was a big flirt and Jodi agrees. Travis did not expect her to wear the outfit.

Yep, and she had a hard time even going along with Nurmi who was trying to lead her to give victim-y testimony about this.

Jodi tells Travis’ friend John that she knows “that’s true” that Travis is looking for someone to marry. Why does she then confront him about it later? She didn’t know but doesn’t react to bad news.

IMO the conversation with John Hepworth didn't happen like Jodi described and may not have happened at all. I belie e the confrontation happened, but I think it's note likely she got the info by reading his emails or Facebook messages. I think this all ties into the fake Steve Carroll and her claim that some random person told her this stuff about Travis.

Jodi struggles to explain where she drove. She has not thought up coherent story to explain.

I wondered about this. I'm not familiar enough with the roads in that part of the country but Flores was pretty convincing when he says her travel story was impossible. Normal people would have freaked out with shame and fear at that point -- didn't bother Jodi at all.

Jodi has already thought of explanations why her blood and hair might be at the house, but never expected LE to find palm print.

Right! And she even acknowledges that it's compelling and sge can't explain it -- but she acts like she is not required to explain it, and like she thinks police will just forget about that little detail. Or again, maybe she just didn't really care too much since she didn't bother to think up better stories. Or maybe she is a psychopath who has no understanding or appreciation for consequences.

<snip>
She knows Travis is in a better place and his family&#8217;s grief will be temporary. Self-justification for why killing him wasn&#8217;t so bad. Thinks everyone will cry a bit then move on. It&#8217;s what SHE would do.

This part just floors me. She even says in a sing-song way "he's doing great" -- almost like she did Travis a big favor by sending him to a better place so whats the big deal and why should she have to suffer any punishment or anything unpleasant

 

[SCSam]

Number one she may not have a choice and number two there are so many women in prison today who are just like her. She will be hitting the law books and giving advice to anyone who will listen. Jodi likes to be the center of attention.

I remember NG interviewing a jailer where JA is now re what kind of inmate she was.. Jailer said good but she never hesitated to file a complaint about some wrong she perceived. I think she will do a LOT of that while she memorizes those law books!

 

[TXHoney]

I'm going to have to disagree with the "Jodi's Foot" reference in this pic. What is marked as Jodi's foot cannot be her foot due to the relative size. Compare the scale of the picture, i.e. size of Travis' shoulder to the relative size of what is marked as Jodi's foot... A person's shoulder width is somewhere between 5-8" from the base of the neck to the bone of the humerus (upper arm bone). A woman who wears a size 6.5-7 shoe is approximately 12" from heel to toe. If we use this as a scale then the foot, as it is marked in the picture, could only be 1-2" long. Not possible for JA... I believe what is marked as JA's foot is actually TA's blood pooling from one of the numerous wounds he sustained.

JA's shadow of the foot is in the foreground of this pic - center and left of center.

Please excuse me if this has already been discussed as I am catching up on old news here today.

My size 8.5 foot is 9.5 inches long, from toe to heel.

 

[Sherazhad]

The shower picture were Travis is sitting down reminds me of what children do in self-defence when they are being attacked- make themselves smaller. I think that he saw her with the knife, she was taking up the only exit from the shower, so he sank down crossing his leg over to protect his torso. Also you can't see his right arm, I believe that was raised to protect his head.