MA - Aaron Hernandez, N E Patriots player, charged with homicides, commits suicide #7

[turaj]

That doesn't mean he isn't a narcissistic, ambulance chasing, murderer seeking *******.

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that two people are dead and the prosecution, however shoddy, sure didn't kill them. The victims get lost in an avalanche of BS, which is absolutely unfair to them.

In this case, IMO, there was more than enough evidence.

I'm not saying the prosecution doesn't bear some of the blame, but IMO, that doesn't absolve the jury or the defense. Especially the jury, who it seems, just couldn't take the defense's version with a grain of salt.

Correct...two people dead and cw did not kill them...however Baez did enough to show there is the possibility that AB could have done each of those shootings....if he was just a really straight up guy with no baggage that might have been a really heavy lift...but AB was the perfect one to pin with these crimes...even the guys who ran away from the car could not really ID AH. While my heart wanted a conviction I had a pretty good feeling it would not happen..each time Baez got finished with that parade of witnesses for the cw I saw myself saying...how can I believe a word that guy says and no one remembers or saw anything except our friend AB. AB is going to have a real rough time on the "outside' after this.

 

[Tuffgong]

If you got money, you always have at the least, a 50/50 shot of beating it. It ain't about black or white, it is about green. This is a really really bad man, who I am sure is fitting right it in, in prison. But he has funds to use and lawyers willing to take them, and maybe, just maybe, some incredibly stupid jury waiting to kick him lose if his first conviction is overturned. But I don't see grounds for a reversal.

 

[siriunsun]

If all the circumstantial evidence points in one direction and one direction only, the prosecutors proved their case. Circumstantial evidence is by law supposed to be given the same weight as direct evidence and that is usually stated in jury instructions.

Circumstantial evidence pointing in one direction does NOT necessarily prove a case. Here, it appears that the prosecution actually did NOT prove the case. Baez was about to show that is was possible that another person committed the crime. It was irresponsible of the prosecution to fail to prepare for that argument before trial.

 

[Rocco]

If you got money, you always have at the least, a 50/50 shot of beating it. It ain't about black or white, it is about green. This is a really really bad man, who I am sure is fitting right it in, in prison. But he has funds to use and lawyers willing to take them, and maybe, just maybe, some incredibly stupid jury waiting to kick him lose if his first conviction is overturned. But I don't see grounds for a reversal.

Pretty sure his 'funds' have run out. Maybe someone could set up a Go Fund Me page for the poor fella.

I agree there's a slim chance for a reversal in the OL case. And even if he was granted a new trial, they have so much video evidence that the only thing they're missing is the actual shooting. Glad his own new security video system helped do him in. I like that.

 

[GoJacks]

If Baez is defending this guy in Colorado Springs, don't lawyers need a law degree from the State of Colorado? I thought you need a law degree in each state that you practice law?

No? :dunno:

TIA!

No idea, but for what it's worth I believe he represented a bunch of the victims of the dark night shooting in Colorado in the past. (surprised)

 

[BUF]

This was from a 6/2014 article. Although AH made all that money, he was cash strapped back then... hard to believe.

...two of Hernandez’s lawyers filed a notice with the court in Boston in which they said the former Pro Bowl tight end was having trouble getting his hands on the money to pay them for their work in the case.

.......

Hernandez was paid at least $596,000 in 2010 by the Patriots, his rookie season, and at least $650,000 in 2011, and could have earned another $48,000 in incentives those two years. In 2012, he signed a five-year contract extension that paid him $6.74 million that year and another $3.25 million in 2013 before the team cut him.

More at link...

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...hernandez-s-legal-team-it-could-happen-060514

 

[jkly]

Circumstantial evidence pointing in one direction does NOT necessarily prove a case. Here, it appears that the prosecution actually did NOT prove the case. Baez was about to show that is was possible that another person committed the crime. It was irresponsible of the prosecution to fail to prepare for that argument before trial.

Yes CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE POINTING IN ONE DIRECTION AND ONE DIRECTION ONLY means the prosecution proved their case. If baez had introduced reasonable doubt in this case THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE WOULD NOT BE POINTING IN ONE DIRECTION AND ONE DIRECTION ONLY. I couldnt care less what baez was about to show.

Excuse the all caps, i'm typing on phone and cant figure out how to bold text.

 

[jkly]

No idea, but for what it's worth I believe he represented a bunch of the victims of the dark night shooting in Colorado in the past. (surprised)

From what I remember reading, he was working with some of the victims' families to sue the movie theater for not having enough exits.

He probably would have been salivating all over himself with glee if he'd been given a chance to defend the actual shooter...

 

[scorpio24]

I may be in the minority here, but I just want to go on record as saying I considered Alexander Bradley to be a quite credible witness. I believed him. (So did my husband, who listened to his testimony and doesn't even WATCH trials.)

I have my own opinions about the "not guilty" verdict. One lies with the confusing answer the judge gave to the 1st jury question. I do believe there was PLENTY of evidence to convict apart from Bradley's testimony. The jury, for whatever reason, chose to ignore all of it. They have to live with that.

I think parts Bradley's memory were hazy due to drinking and drug use, but he did the best he could. My lasting opinion of Bradley is that of a pretty darned intelligent guy who really tried to tell the truth about what happened that night and in Florida. I hope he uses that intelligence to legally support himself and his family when he is released from prison. I believe he'll do just fine. :moo:

 

[cinsbythesea]

I may be in the minority here, but I just want to go on record as saying I considered Alexander Bradley to be a quite credible witness. I believed him. (So did my husband, who listened to his testimony and doesn't even WATCH trials.)

I have my own opinions about the "not guilty" verdict. One lies with the confusing answer the judge gave to the 1st jury question. I do believe there was PLENTY of evidence to convict apart from Bradley's testimony. The jury, for whatever reason, chose to ignore all of it. They have to live with that.

I think parts Bradley's memory were hazy due to drinking and drug use, but he did the best he could. My lasting opinion of Bradley is that of a pretty darned intelligent guy who really tried to tell the truth about what happened that night and in Florida. I hope he uses that intelligence to legally support himself and his family when he is released from prison. I believe he'll do just fine. :moo:

I too found him very credible and intelligent as well. I think he held up well on the stand - even with Baez trying to get him to crack. Like you- I hope he stays on the right side of the law when he's released and uses some of that intelligence to earn money the legal way. I think now though he's got some extra worries considering he snitched on AH - AH doesn't seem the type that will let something like testifying against him go unpunished.

 

[siriunsun]

Yes CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE POINTING IN ONE DIRECTION AND ONE DIRECTION ONLY means the prosecution proved their case. If baez had introduced reasonable doubt in this case THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE WOULD NOT BE POINTING IN ONE DIRECTION AND ONE DIRECTION ONLY. I couldnt care less what baez was about to show.

Excuse the all caps, i'm typing on phone and cant figure out how to bold text.

Well then, you and the Constitution will just have to agree to disagree. There are many reasons why circumstantial evidence alone does not prove a case, and I would be very nervous about our justice system if I thought a prosecutor could claim he had "proved" something without actually proving it, leaving a defendant no recourse. <modsnip>

 

[BUF]

I too found him very credible and intelligent as well. I think he held up well on the stand - even with Baez trying to get him to crack. Like you- I hope he stays on the right side of the law when he's released and uses some of that intelligence to earn money the legal way. I think now though he's got some extra worries considering he snitched on AH - AH doesn't seem the type that will let something like testifying against him go unpunished.

Your statement 'AH doesn't seem the type that will let something like testifying against him go unpunished' rings so true. After all, wasn't OL murdered because he mentioned something about the double murders and AB was shot and left for dead because of them too? It wasn't all paranoia, but also his way of dealing with those that defied him.

AH cried when the verdicts were read, but this was someone that was already serving a life sentence... (and his tears stopped when that one guilty verdict came in!). Part of me thought he cried because he was so relieved that the jury didn't believe AB, so AB wasn't going to get away with being the person who snitched him out. AH may still have some loyalists, like the people who hang out that house in Bristol that hid the murder SUV for him.

Also, I find it curious that some that were posting on the trial thread of what a great witness AB was then suddenly changed their tune when the verdict was announced.

 

[BUF]

Remember that big deal about the defense witness in Kuwait they wanted to Skype testimony?

Cathy&#8207; @courtchatter
#AaronHernandez - Def atty Sullivan tells LawNewz their witness in Kuwait would have testified to spilling drink on AH in club on diff night

 

[jkly]

Well then, you and the Constitution will just have to agree to disagree. There are many reasons why circumstantial evidence alone does not prove a case, and I would be very nervous about our justice system if I thought a prosecutor could claim he had "proved" something without actually proving it, leaving a defendant no recourse.<modsnip>

Whether or not he "proved" it is subjective. My point was that if, as you said, all the circumstantial evidence was pointing in one direction and one direction only, most people would agree that the prosecutor proved his case and that baez did not introduce reasonable doubt into the case.

What erodes and corrupts our justice system is when obviously guilty people go free not on reasonable doubt, but on speculative or imagined doubt because a defense attorney told a wild story and he ultimately failed to offer a shred of proof backing up and unfortunately for some simpleminded jurors out there, that bell can't be unrung.

While a jury should not convict an innocent person, they also have a responsibility to society to make sure that guilty people don't go free and kill again because they think they're playing a game of Clue or they think that every single question has to be answered long past the prosecution demonstrating that the killer had both the means and the opportunity to commit the crime, that their actions showed consciousness of guilt and there is a plethora of evidence pointing in their direction and only their direction.

Again, no one but the murderer can answer every single question a jury might have.

Once again he distracted a simpleminded jury with a bunch of smoke and mirrors and salacious rhetoric to the point where they decided the person who was shot in the face is somehow more likely to have committed the crime than the convicted murderer who, if he didn't somehow didn't pull the trigger, was in this up to his ears.

You're also ignoring the fact that this case not only had circumstantial evidence, but also direct evidence in the form of an eyewitness. That's an awful lot of incriminating evidence this jury managed to just shove aside to make the inexplicable decision to let Hernandez off what amounts to scott free. The entire thing, like baez, stinks to high heaven.

baez is an embarrassment to our justice system and a crappy lawyer. He's the one eroding and corrupting our justice system. I think it's a serious mistake to link the words Constitution and him in any favorable way.

My opinion only.

 

[BUF]

There are still the civil suits...

Travis Andersen&#8207; @TAGlobe
discovery deadline for the Abreu family's wrongful death lawsuit against #AaronHernandez is 8/16/17, per court records.

Travis Andersen&#8207; @TAGlobe
stay of discovery in Furtado family wrongful death lawsuit against #AaronHernandez expires 4/30/17, at which time process resumes, recs show

Travis Andersen&#8207; @TAGlobe
final pre-trial conference in Lloyd family's wrongful death lawsuit against #AaronHernandez scheduled for 4/24, court records show

 

[siriunsun]

Whether or not he "proved" it is subjective. My point was that if, as you said, all the circumstantial evidence was pointing in one direction and one direction only, most people would agree that the prosecutor proved his case and that baez did not introduce reasonable doubt into the case.

What erodes and corrupts our justice system is when obviously guilty people go free not on reasonable doubt, but on speculative or imagined doubt because a defense attorney told a wild story and he ultimately failed to offer a shred of proof backing up and unfortunately for some simpleminded jurors out there, that bell can't be unrung.

While a jury should not convict an innocent person, they also have a responsibility to society to make sure that guilty people don't go free and kill again because they think they're playing a game of Clue or they think that every single question has to be answered long past the prosecution demonstrating that the killer had both the means and the opportunity to commit the crime, that their actions showed consciousness of guilt and there is a plethora of evidence pointing in their direction and only their direction.

Again, no one but the murderer can answer every single question a jury might have.

Once again he distracted a simpleminded jury with a bunch of smoke and mirrors and salacious rhetoric to the point where they decided the person who was shot in the face is somehow more likely to have committed the crime than the convicted murderer who, if he didn't somehow didn't pull the trigger, was in this up to his ears.

You're also ignoring the fact that this case not only had circumstantial evidence, but also direct evidence in the form of an eyewitness. That's an awful lot of incriminating evidence this jury managed to just shove aside to make the inexplicable decision to let Hernandez off what amounts to scott free. The entire thing, like baez, stinks to high heaven.

baez is an embarrassment to our justice system and a crappy lawyer. He's the one eroding and corrupting our justice system. I think it's a serious mistake to link the words Constitution and him in any favorable way.

My opinion only.

The Constitution is written to favor the defendant. Because of the role public opinion plays in and out of court, that is the way it must be, in American justice. Our Founding Fathers wanted to be sure that future Americans were never the victims of a predatory justice system. It is something for which we should all be grateful. As for Baez, he has received a lot of bad press, but aside from the fact that he is a defense attorney, what is actually known about him? Every defendant has a right to representation, and without defense attorneys, we could not try these cases. Once again, all the circumstantial evidence surrounding a case may point one direction, and the truth could be something completely different. It's happened before.

 

[jkly]

The Constitution is written to favor the defendant. Because of the role public opinion plays in and out of court, that is the way it must be, in American justice. Our Founding Fathers wanted to be sure that future Americans were never the victims of a predatory justice system. It is something for which we should all be grateful. As for Baez, he has received a lot of bad press, but aside from the fact that he is a defense attorney, what is actually known about him? Every defendant has a right to representation, and without defense attorneys, we could not try these cases. Once again, all the circumstantial evidence surrounding a case may point one direction, and the truth could be something completely different. It's happened before.

I'm getting sick of being lectured on the Constitution. It seems that we don't interpret it the same way, but it doesn't make you right and me wrong or vice versa. So while I do not feel that I need to agree to disagree with the Constitution, I do think that I need to agree to disagree with you.

Especially about all the evidence pointing one way, but letting someone off because "the truth could be something totally different." IMO, that's a speculative, imagined, or insinuated doubt, not a reasonable one. But that's all I'll say about that.

Moving on, nothing anyone says will make this win okay with me. It seems to me that people are way too scared to put anyone in jail anymore. Forensic evidence isn't enough, eyewitness evidence isn't enough, circumstantial evidence isn't enough. People are too afraid to trust their eyes and their ears and most of all their own common sense. Nowadays people want a video tape and if you look at Dalia Dippolito's recent trial which ended in a hung jury, sometimes that isn't even enough.

Then they turn to the general public for sympathy or applause or because they think their actions were somehow noble.

I think the jury was wishy-washy and they let a dangerous person off with a slap on the wrist. Baez is already bragging that he's going to appeal and clear him of the Odin Lloyd murder. This trial is, of course, not going to happen for awhile if it happens at all, but it's annoying.

I don't really have a problem with all defense attorneys, but I have a huge problem with this one.

What is actually known about him?

1) He wasn't passed by the bar for 8 years because they wrote that his overall behavior showed, "a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system..."
2) He sold bikinis and went bankrupt.
3) He owed 12,000 dollars in back child support.
4) He defaulted on a student loan.
5) He tried to hide the fact that he wrote a bad check from the Bar.
6) He had a bar complaint filed against him for telling a private detective that if they found the body of the person who had gone missing, they were to walk away from it and then call him immediately instead of calling law enforcement.
7) He was investigated for witness tampering.
8) A private detective who was working for him claimed one of his clients was paying him in sex. He was repeatedly asked to stop hugging and touching his client during jail visits. During such jail visits, he smuggled contraband into the jail.
9) In one of the cases he tried, he accused the father of the defendant of sexually abusing her and then failed to back it up with a shred of proof.
10) He wrote a book in which he published even more inconsistent lies about the father of the defendant and profited off of it.
11) He likes to leak stuff to the media and then whine to the media about how the media is unfairly "trying his clients in the media."

Which one of these things should I find admirable again? All I see is a con artist and a big fat liar.

 

[katydid23]

I'm getting sick of being lectured on the Constitution. Obviously it means different things to you than it does to me, but it doesn't make you right and me wrong or vice versa.

Sorry, but nothing anyone says will make this win okay with me. It seems to me that people are way too scared to put anyone in jail anymore. Forensic evidence isn't enough, eyewitness evidence isn't enough, circumstantial evidence isn't enough. People are too afraid to trust their eyes and their ears and most of all their own common sense. Nowadays people want a video tape and if you look at Dalia Dippolito's recent trial which ended in a hung jury, sometimes that isn't even enough.

Then they turn to the general public for sympathy or applause or because they think their actions were somehow noble.

I think the jury was wishy-washy and they let a dangerous person off with a slap on the wrist. Baez is already bragging that he's going to appeal and clear him of the Odin Lloyd murder. This trial is, of course, not going to happen for awhile if it happens at all, but it's annoying.

I don't really have a problem with all defense attorneys, but I have a huge problem with this one.

What is actually known about him?

1) He wasn't passed by the bar for 8 years due to the fact that they found his conduct because they wrote that his overall behavior showed, "a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system..."
2) He sold bikinis and went bankrupt.
3) He owed 12,000 dollars in back child support.
4) He defaulted on a student loan.
5) He tried to hide the fact that he wrote a bad check from the Bar.
6) He had a bar complaint filed against him for telling a private detective that if they found the body of the person who had gone missing, they were to walk away from it and then call him immediately instead of calling law enforcement.
7) He was investigated for witness tampering.
8) A private detective who was working for him claimed one of his clients was paying him in sex. He was repeatedly asked to stop hugging and touching his client during jail visits. During such jail visits, he smuggled contraband into the jail.
9) In one of the cases he tried, he accused the father of the defendant of sexually abusing her and then failed to back it up with a shred of proof.
10) He wrote a book in which he published even more inconsistent lies about the father of the defendant and profited off of it.
11) He likes to leak stuff to me the media and then whine to the media about how the media is unfairly "trying his clients in the media."

Which one of these things should I find admirable again?

And he allegedly traded legal work for sexual favors from his client, who he KNEW had killed her baby girl.

 

[katydid23]

The Constitution is written to favor the defendant. Because of the role public opinion plays in and out of court, that is the way it must be, in American justice. Our Founding Fathers wanted to be sure that future Americans were never the victims of a predatory justice system. It is something for which we should all be grateful. As for Baez, he has received a lot of bad press, but aside from the fact that he is a defense attorney, what is actually known about him? Every defendant has a right to representation, and without defense attorneys, we could not try these cases. Once again, all the circumstantial evidence surrounding a case may point one direction, and the truth could be something completely different. It's happened before.

There was a reason that AH locked his SUV up in his Uncles garage and abandoned it the day after the shootings. There is a reason that he shot Odin, his sisterinlaw's boyfriend,in the head and killed him And there is plenty of solid proof that he did so. There is clear video evidence and text messages PROVING that he called Odin and directed that he wait to be picked up in the middle of the night. Video evidence shows AH driving the suv that picked Odin up, and video shows that car returning 20 minutes later from the Industrial Park, without Odin. And clear video evidence of AH HOLDING THE GUN as he returns home from the industrial park.

AH is guilty as sin.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'm getting sick of being lectured on the Constitution. It seems that we don't interpret it the same way, but it doesn't make you right and me wrong or vice versa. So while I do not feel that I need to agree to disagree with the Constitution, I do think that I need to agree to disagree with you.

Bbm

Wow.

I will now start using the bolded part when I'm posting on political sites. Lol

Thanks for the chuckle.

Btw. Jose Baez has just became a Hall of famer.

Lol. Johnnie Cochran would be proud of how Jose finesses these idiotic jurors. Lol.

I