GUILTY MA - Abigail Hanna for kidnap, assault of 2yo girl, Hamilton, 2015

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I would think the reason for seeking legal counsel would be to learn the process for having Abigail involuntarily committed. Not all states have a Baker Act, such as Florida has. I've read a few posts that have referred to the bag of clothes that Abi had as belonging to Lyndon. I don't recall them being described that way. IIRC, they were described as a bag of toddler clothes.
 
ILOKAL said:
IMO, Abigail's behavior appeared quite disorganized, as I've posted previously. We'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.
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Her behavior immediately following the crime and apparently now appears disorganized, but to me it sounds like her behavior leading up to and in committing the crime was very organized - breaking into the home, kidnapping the child, shaving the head, taking the clothes, and other acts I don't like to even speculate on, before leaving the poor thing discarded in the dirt alongside a road half hidden by leaves.
 
Before the arrest, most here were befuddled by the circumstances of such an odd case. Many speculated apparent mental illness for whoever did these odd things. As I posted earlier, and it's just my opinion, the taking of Lyndon seems planned, but what happened after seems terribly disorganized. The court has clearly indicated that in its opinion, the defendant suffers with mental illness. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
ILOKAL said:
Before the arrest, most here were befuddled by the circumstances of such an odd case. Many speculated apparent mental illness for whoever did these odd things. As I posted earlier, and it's just my opinion, the taking of Lyndon seems planned, but what happened after seems terribly disorganized. The court has clearly indicated that in its opinion, the defendant suffers with mental illness. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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I am very curious to see what happens.

This case has my mind all over the place. I just don't know what to think. Hope we hear more soon.

For now I'm grateful that Lyndon is safe and that Abigail is where she can't hurt another child.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
krig101 said:
I am very curious to see what happens.

This case has my mind all over the place. I just don't know what to think. Hope we hear more soon.

For now I'm grateful that Lyndon is safe and that Abigail is where she can't hurt another child.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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It definitely will be interesting, also I'm certain there is more to the story. there has to be an element of mental illness it's almost certain, but is she criminally not responsible for her actions? I don't know, her actions of lying and attempts at cover up suggest she knew right from wrong.
 
MissUnderstood said:
I can't help but wonder, that if the perp of this awful crime was a male, that there would be as much understanding? Not suggesting that mental illness is not a concern, but I have not seen empathy or sympathy directed at another perp like I have toward Abi. What is the difference between mentally incompetent and evil? How can someone be capable enough to try cover their tracks but not capable at the time of the crime? Not trying to say Abi is not incapacitated in some way, but where do we draw the line?? We don't show any sadness for serial killers, who most, for sure are mentally ill in some way! What is the difference in cases like this do you think?


MOO!!
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She has not even 'one drop' of understanding from me. Her mental ilness has yet to be really proved and we can just think how organised she was during the crime. She broke into a house during the night. She was enough careful not to make noise or she whould have disturbed the parents. She tortured that poor child and we will know why she discarded her (thankfully) without killing the baby.
A person that is able to snatch a baby from her bed and torture and humilliate her, was surely able to kill. She knew right from wrong and she tried to cover her tracks.

Remember miss knox who also tried to play the 'insane' after arrested when she was never insane. She even was doing cartwheels in front of the police while being interrogated!

I can believe this abigail thing is having a 'meltdown' now but it is because she was caught! I have been seeing her FB page with attention and nothing suggests me that she has mental problems at all!

Let's see what unfolds from this sad story, but I am not buying the 'insane' excuse :naughty:
 
The only thing the judge is interested in at this time is whether or not she is "competent" to stand trial. . . . Is she able to understand the charges against her and is she able to assist in her defense. A competency evaluation is completely different than a mental health/psycological evaluation.
 
"At this time Abigail is addressing serious and potentially life-threatening issues. These issues have clearly impacted her overall mental health."
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http://m.salemnews.com/news/updated...290-9203-11e5-92ff-ef4938033605.html?mode=jqm

What could this statement from Abi's lawyer mean? The way it's worded suggests that Abi has serious life-threatening issues and these may have caused her mental issues, not that the serious and life-threatening issues *are* the mental issues.

So what could these "serious, life-threatening issues" be??
 
ILOKAL said:
The only think the judge is interested in at this time is whether or not she is "competent" to stand trial. . . . Is she able to understand the charges against her and is she able to assist in her defense. A competency evaluation is completely different than a mental health/psycological evaluation.
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Yup. Those are two different reports conducted at different times during the criminal process. Competency is right now - is she able to stand trial, is she able to assist in her defense, etc. A psych eval for an insanity defense is about her mental state at the time of the offense, and whether she could perceive right from wrong, or whether her mental illness kept her from complying with the law.

ETA: Here's a good article from Psychology Today about the differences.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/so-sue-me/201411/the-difference-between-competency-and-sanity
 
Beesknees said:
She has not even 'one drop' of understanding from me. Her mental ilness has yet to be really proved and we can just think how organised she was during the crime. She broke into a house during the night. She was enough careful not to make noise or she whould have disturbed the parents. She tortured that poor child and we will know why she discarded her (thankfully) without killing the baby.
A person that is able to snatch a baby from her bed and torture and humilliate her, was surely able to kill. She knew right from wrong and she tried to cover her tracks.

Remember miss knox who also tried to play the 'insane' after arrested when she was never insane. She even was doing cartwheels in front of the police while being interrogated!

I can believe this abigail thing is having a 'meltdown' now but it is because she was caught! I have been seeing her FB page with attention and nothing suggests me that she has mental problems at all!

Let's see what unfolds from this sad story, but I am not buying the 'insane' excuse :naughty:
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Respectfully, I don't think that you understand mental illness. Someone's public Facebook page is not indicative of their mental health. People often confuse public show for private life. Social media is the place one can easily build a false persona. It happens every day. And Amana Knox never used the insanity plea. There is odd behavior and then there is psychosis. I will take the professional diagnoses/analysis psychologists render of Abigail over public condemnation based on emotion and outrage. We already have one. I am hopeful that the next one provides further clarity.

MOO.
 
Rayemonde said:
http://m.salemnews.com/news/updated...290-9203-11e5-92ff-ef4938033605.html?mode=jqm

What could this statement from Abi's lawyer mean? The way it's worded suggests that Abi has serious life-threatening issues and these may have caused her mental issues, not that the serious and life-threatening issues *are* the mental issues.

So what could these "serious, life-threatening issues" be??
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Has Abi's personality changed recently? Something that can cause a change in personality and at the same time be "serious and potentially life-threatening issues" could be a tumor of some kind in the frontal lobe, as frontal lobe damage are connected with personality changes.
Frontal lobe tumors may cause behavioral and emotional changes, impaired judgment, impaired sense of smell, memory loss, paralysis on one side of the body, reduced mental abilities, and vision loss.
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From: http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/PE-BrainTumor.htm#.VlS3Gr-o2X0
It's not necessary that it's a tumor in the frontal lobe to cause behavioural changes, any damage of some kind to the frontal lobe can cause it.
 
ILOKAL said:
I would think the reason for seeking legal counsel would be to learn the process for having Abigail involuntarily committed. Not all states have a Baker Act, such as Florida has. I've read a few posts that have referred to the bag of clothes that Abi had as belonging to Lyndon. I don't recall them being described that way. IIRC, they were described as a bag of toddler clothes.
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This article describes one of the items of toddler clothing in Hanna's bag as being a pink toddler jacket with dirt and leaves on it:

http://kfor.com/2015/11/24/suspect-in-toddler-kidnapping-case-was-erratic-officers-say/

One item was a dirty pink jacket “observed to had dirt and vegetative debris on it,” the warrant said.

“The clothing was seized. Abigail Hanna said that the clothing belonged to somebody she babysat for,” the search warrant said.
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I'm sure the officers will be able to verify whether it's Lyndon's clothing.

I'm glad they've revoked bail, Hanna seems to be a real flight risk, as well as a danger to the public.
 
ILOKAL said:
I would think the reason for seeking legal counsel would be to learn the process for having Abigail involuntarily committed. Not all states have a Baker Act, such as Florida has. I've read a few posts that have referred to the bag of clothes that Abi had as belonging to Lyndon. I don't recall them being described that way. IIRC, they were described as a bag of toddler clothes.
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If she had been suicidal before, I would assume her parents would be well versed in the process of getting their daughter help... or maybe, like so many others... they simply didn't seek the help she needed at the time because of their own personal egos? So, they let her issues fester until she finally lashes out and hurts innocent people.

We could also ask whether or not these were actual suicide attempts or threatening suicide. One can argue that there are some people who like to manipulate others feelings by threatening suicide. For all we know, she could have been hell on wheels and herself and her family were just really good at covering for her.

Lastly, even if they were not Lyndon's clothes, it was something she consciously attempted to hide knowing it would be problematic for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and I agree with someone else who said that she's simply showing the signs of someone who not only got caught, but is in serious trouble. I am sure she is very distressed about THAT.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
If she had been suicidal before, I would assume her parents would be well versed in the process of getting their daughter help... or maybe, like so many others... they simply didn't seek the help she needed at the time because of their own personal egos? So, they let her issues fester until she finally lashes out and hurts innocent people.

We could also ask whether or not these were actual suicide attempts or threatening suicide. One can argue that there are some people who like to manipulate others feelings by threatening suicide. For all we know, she could have been hell on wheels and herself and her family were just really good at covering for her.

Lastly, even if they were not Lyndon's clothes, it was something she consciously attempted to hide knowing it would be problematic for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and I agree with someone else who said that she's simply showing the signs of someone who not only got caught, but is in serious trouble. I am sure she is very distressed about THAT.
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So you're saying if Abigail had previous attempts at suicide her parents would have had a revolving door available to them by which they could simply ring the bell and have her involuntarily committed? Even in Florida, with the help of The Baker Act, there is a definite procedure one must go through to have someone committed involuntarily. I have no idea, based on what little information we've been given, why you believe the families "ego" might have prevented them from getting help for their daughter. Perhaps you have based that on the fact that her parents own a million dollar home and sent her to a fairly expensive school?

I don't agree that because Abigail was taking the bag of toddler clothes with her when her mother and fiancé were taking her to see an attorney, necessarily suggests that she was consciously attempting to "hide" them.

I doubt it was intentional, but your last paragraph is stated as a known fact rather than as your personal opinion. Maybe you're not aware that's how it is written.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
If she had been suicidal before, I would assume her parents would be well versed in the process of getting their daughter help... or maybe, like so many others... they simply didn't seek the help she needed at the time because of their own personal egos? So, they let her issues fester until she finally lashes out and hurts innocent people.

We could also ask whether or not these were actual suicide attempts or threatening suicide. One can argue that there are some people who like to manipulate others feelings by threatening suicide. For all we know, she could have been hell on wheels and herself and her family were just really good at covering for her.

Lastly, even if they were not Lyndon's clothes, it was something she consciously attempted to hide knowing it would be problematic for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and I agree with someone else who said that she's simply showing the signs of someone who not only got caught, but is in serious trouble. I am sure she is very distressed about THAT.
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BBM
Are you suggesting people who attempt suicide are likely to eventually lash out and hurt innocent people? If so, why and do you have anything to back it up? Thanks.
 
Rayemonde said:
I wonder why she had dirt on her hands and face, and a twig in her hair. Did she intentionally cover the baby with leaves? Or was it somewhere outdoors that she was shaving the baby's head and burning her with cigarettes?

If it's true that she had a miscarriage, maybe she was jealous and resentful of Lyndon's parents for having a beautiful, healthy child and she wanted to hurt them by hurting their baby.
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Maybe she thought she could pass Lyndon off as her own but found a child Lyndon's age wouldn't go along with it and wouldn't work so she dropped her off.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
If she had been suicidal before, I would assume her parents would be well versed in the process of getting their daughter help... or maybe, like so many others... they simply didn't seek the help she needed at the time because of their own personal egos? So, they let her issues fester until she finally lashes out and hurts innocent people.

We could also ask whether or not these were actual suicide attempts or threatening suicide. One can argue that there are some people who like to manipulate others feelings by threatening suicide. For all we know, she could have been hell on wheels and herself and her family were just really good at covering for her.

Lastly, even if they were not Lyndon's clothes, it was something she consciously attempted to hide knowing it would be problematic for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and I agree with someone else who said that she's simply showing the signs of someone who not only got caught, but is in serious trouble. I am sure she is very distressed about THAT.
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BBM: Maybe her parents have gotten her a great deal of help, but she doesn't stay on her meds, or is noncompliant in some other way. Self medicating with illegal drugs is one example. Parents can try to move heaven and earth for their children, but that doesn't mean their efforts will work. I don't think blaming her parents if fair. We really don't know enough yet to make that jump. JMO
 
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