GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

[jacct]

Ohhh...a little snark from the defense "Anything else you want to add". Objection, sidebar.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago On a performance eval you can't immediately jump to the issue of malingering -Hebben

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
After long answer, Regan says "anything else you want to say?" Objection by ADA. Now all at sidebar.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
There is some serious tension in here between the attorneys

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
The tension between Regan and MacDougall has been palpable many times throughout #PhilipChism trial, today is possibly the most tense yet

 

[jacct]

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago Sidebar over. Regan asks about 5 tests #PhilipChism took that measure malingering.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Regan - of 7 tests given 5 were aimed at directly measuring malingering, or faking.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 55s55 seconds ago
Regan now asking about the outdated test manuals she had discussed during earlier hearing without jurors.

Keep in mind the only reason the Dr. gave these additional tests is because the results of the MMPI were unusable due to high malingering results on validity questions. Dr. did the additional tests to determine if the MMPI was wrong or if Chism really was malingering.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Regan asking Hebben about manuals issued/used in psychological testing

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Hebben says she relies on manual for scoring. Regan asks about the normative data. We know the manual doesn't include teens

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Attorneys go to sidebar. Lowy notes it's almost 1 pm, nearing end of testimony today

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 34s35 seconds ago
Lowy says the presentation of evidence in case of #PhilipChism should conclude tomorrow or Thursday. Jurors dismissed until 9:00am EST

 

[Greggy]

The tests are open to scrutiny of experts, and they are administered in a standard way such that the output can be studied by anyone. They just aren't open to anyone who wants to publicize them. The individual items aren't what's at question -- it's the results and what outcomes they predict that are in question. A better example would be that there are plenty of drugs that go through FDA scrutiny, and their exact formulations and methods for producing them are not made public because they are trade secret/proprietary. Same for medical diagnostics. Exact gene lists and combination algorithms aren't made public for some molecular tests, but that doesn't mean the tests and their results can't undergo scientific scrutiny.

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. Your analogies focus on how a drug or molecular test is manufactured and not how the conclusions are made and if it is truly effective. I think test conclusions and validity are what Regan is attempting to contest concerning PC and malingering, though Regan may not be qualified to do so. Patents protect high-value diagnostic tests and new molecular entities that later become prescription drugs from infringement.

 

[jacct]

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. Your analogies focus on how a drug or molecular test is manufactured and not how the conclusions are made and if it is truly effective. I think test conclusions and validity are what Regan is attempting to contest concerning PC and malingering, though Regan may not be qualified to do so. Patents protect high-value diagnostic tests and new molecular entities that later become prescription drugs from infringement.

I think defense is after several things. They want to discredit the Dr. opinion that Chism was malingering and they also want to invalidate the tests that were used. During the Dalbert hearing the defense said they want to ask questions from the tests because they are "silly" and want the jury to hear the silly questions.

 

[jacct]

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi [video=twitter;674291070121963520]https://twitter.com/lauracrimaldi/status/674291070121963520[/video] Lawyers in #PhilipChism will reconvene at 2 pm

 

[AnaTeresa]

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. Your analogies focus on how a drug or molecular test is manufactured and not how the conclusions are made and if it is truly effective. I think test conclusions and validity are what Regan is attempting to contest concerning PC and malingering, though Regan may not be qualified to do so. Patents protect high-value diagnostic tests and new molecular entities that later become prescription drugs from infringement.

Greggy, Skigirl is actually verified as an expert in neuroscience and is likely pretty familiar with the tests at issue here.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I think defense is after several things. They want to discredit the Dr. opinion that Chism was malingering and they also want to invalidate the tests that were used. During the Dalbert hearing the defense said they want to ask questions from the tests because they are "silly" and want the jury to hear the silly questions.

They are trying the spaghetti at the wall tactic of trying to discredit evidence any way they can, whether that's challenging its validity to keep it out or attempting to make it look like it shouldn't be taken seriously by the jury.

It can be challenging to defend someone who is guilty; obviously, I believe every defendant is entitled to a vigorous defense. But a vigorous defense can be done without behavior which skirts ethical boundaries, which has been an issue in this case.

 

[Skigirl]

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. Your analogies focus on how a drug or molecular test is manufactured and not how the conclusions are made and if it is truly effective. I think test conclusions and validity are what Regan is attempting to contest concerning PC and malingering, though Regan may not be qualified to do so. Patents protect high-value diagnostic tests and new molecular entities that later become prescription drugs from infringement.

Yes, we will have to disagree on patents and diagnostics: Many diagnostics are protected through trade secrets; and in fact, it is very hard to get patents on diagnostics due to a couple of major decisions in the last few years, Mayo v. Prometheus Labs, AMP v. Myriad Diagnostics, and Bilski v. Kappos. For example, the primary protection that Myriad has now for its BRCA test is that it has the largest database of gene variants due to the sheer number of women it has tested. Those gene variants are not widely shared. However, data on increased risk of breast cancer when a mutation is found is available to the scientific community and I know of no one who questions the connection between a mutation and breast/ovarian cancer risk.

When it comes to psych instruments, what matters is whether the test measures what it's supposed to measure. The individual items (i.e., the questions) are not evidence of whether or not the test is valid (i.e., measures what it's supposed to measure). The only way to evaluate the validity of a psych instrument is to measure the results against a gold standard or an outcome. No one is prevented from measuring the results against a gold standard or a known outcome just because the general public can't scrutinize the individual items in the instrument.

 

[coastal]

I'm not sure it's technically "malingering mental illness", but the jury will be able to see that Chism isn't testing honestly, from the wildly different results of his IQ tests, one of which he scored less than 1%:

From jaact's post #317, page 22 of this thread:

>>>snip

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD In 3/2014, #PhilipChism was given IQ test? Dr. Dudley: yes

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: Results were avg or high avg? Dr. Dudley Correct

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 59s59 seconds ago
MacD: And in 6/15 #PhilipChism was given adult IQ testDr. Dudley: yes.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 41s41 seconds ago
MacD: And he scored below one percentDr. Dudley: i believe so.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 53s54 seconds ago
MacD: That's barely functioning.

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 1m1 minute ago
Questioning about #PhilipChism IQ test. Prosecutor questioning why average IQ 5 months after murder, but less than 1% 18 mos after.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
ADA asks how he could score so low - absent of having a head injury the day b4 test

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: Is any testing you reviewed from 6/15 shows #PhilipChism was showing pyschosis in 2013?Dr. Dudley No.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Dudley confirms there's no testing evidence #PhilipChism was experiencing psychosis before June 2015.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Dudley said he did no testing of malingering, which would indicate if #PhilipChism was exaggerating or faking symptoms of psychosis

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 1m1 minute ago
Prosecutor grilling defense expert about how he came to his finding about psychotic disorder, but not malingering.


<<<snip

 

[AnaTeresa]

It's two o'clock and I feel like we should be hitting that boxing bell for "Round Two!"

 

[jacct]

Trial Day 12 - Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYhJcHBGSWI

Trial Day 12 - Part 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltQjtedft4Q&feature=youtu.be&a

 

[jacct]

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 1m1 minute ago We're back in court, waiting on the judge. Will discuss the order prohibiting reporting on the psych test questions.

I don't think we'll have a livestream for this, it usually isn't on for afternoon hearings.

 

[jacct]

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago Peter Caruso Sr., a lawyer for @salemnews and @EagleTrib is here in court to address gag order

What??? Please reporters, just use some common sense. Do you really need to publish proprietary test questions? Do you really have to broadcast that? The order is very limited, just let it go.

 

[jacct]

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 56s56 seconds ago
#PhilipChism has just been let back into the courtroom for legal motions

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 55s56 seconds ago
Judge Lowy has ordered a partial media gag order on testimony tomorrow. Media is challenging

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
Court is back in session. #PhilipChism wants to waive his presence for the afternoon.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
As he has 3 previous times, #PhilipChism is asking to leave courtroom now, and skip this hearing. Judge is questioning him now

 

[jacct]

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago #PhilipChism now led out of court.

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Prosecutors say that they haven't made some necessary decisions re jury instructions.

Livestream: http://www.courtchatter.com/#!philip-chism-trial-live-stream-3/cfxa

 

[jacct]

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago Defense is going to raise same issues over raw data with Dr. Robert Kinscherff. ADA MacDougall is strongly objecting

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 4m4 minutes ago
ADA says defense should have never gotten the raw data on the testing in the first place. MacDougall is really frustrated.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: This is very dangerous situation for the Commonwealth. I don't think I should have RAW data, neither shld defense

Laurel J. SweetVerified account &#8207;@Laurel_Sweet 3m3 minutes ago
There may be a second problem with a state rebuttal witness, psychologist Robert Kinscherff, in terms of raw-data testimony

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 3m3 minutes ago
Defense says its has raw data of testing of #PhilipChism done by Dr. Kinscherff. ADA objects; says neither side should have it.

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
ADA started out saying she doesn't want her direct examination of Dr. Kinscherff to be interrupted by defense issues.

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Clearly frustrated DA still questioning use of raw data by either side

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
There was a pre trial motion on this that went to the SJC

Laurel J. SweetVerified account &#8207;@Laurel_Sweet 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy expresses concern that at this juncture jurors are losing their "interest and enthusiasm" in #PhilipChism trial due to delays

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy moves onto the issue of media access to testimony of neuropsychologist Nancy Hebben.

Laurel J. SweetVerified account &#8207;@Laurel_Sweet 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy calls on Attorney Caruso to address the gag order

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
Atty Peter Caruso: Gag order is not Constitutionally sound

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso compares it to SAT questions being disclosed.

Laurel J. SweetVerified account &#8207;@Laurel_Sweet 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso argues that an open courtroom should be just that

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
Regan says it's about 13 questions that will be addressed on cross. And she won't elicit the answers.

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy says Hebben testified that the test materials are not public.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy: This info was to go out, treatment of mentally ill people would be jeopardized.

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy says he's weighing the right of the media to cover the tests against "the mental health of the United States of America."

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Caruso: Gag orders are unconstitutional remedy. We have obligation to at least present press/public position

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Judge says the other option is close the courtroom. "If you win an appeal you get a transcript."

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy: Here's issue. I'm not looking as doctrine. Trying to accommodate press to report on case

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy: "There are alternatives to closing the courtroom."

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso says we can't know whether the information is so sensitive it can't go out because we don't yet know the information.

 

[jacct]

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago Lowy: the over riding interest is the mental health of people in the USA. There are alternatives to closing court

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
But he will close courtroom if press doesn't agree to gag order.

Laurel J. SweetVerified account &#8207;@Laurel_Sweet 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy: Despite the gag order, "I'm trying to keep the press in the courtroom. That's my goal."

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso: There will be other ppl in room, are they also prohibited what they heard in open court?

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso suggests questions be re-written or recreated? Will be other people in room. Are they also prevented from discussing?

Julie Manganis &#8207;@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Caruso asks time to consult with editors of papers

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Judge says that there's a chance the transcript could be released later. Some of the questions might be innocuous

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 50s50 seconds ago
Lowy: "I'm looking for the most narrowly tailored way to do this."

allison manningVerified account &#8207;@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
(Globe/@BostonDotCom lawyers are also filing an objection to this gag order).


Lowey suggests the gag order stay in place for tomorrow testimony. A transcript will then be provided to the press attorneys and they can hold a hearing on Friday to determine if the disputed testimony or portions of the testimony can be released to the press.

 

[jacct]

Laura Crimaldi &#8207;@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago Lowy suggests impounding transcript and having a hearing on its release when the case goes to the jury.

Lowey gives the press attorneys 30 minutes to review his suggestion and come back with a response.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account &#8207;@Bward3 28s28 seconds ago
Lowy: Closing Statements may be Friday, if Govt wraps tomorrow. Thurs. would be charging conference.

Court in recess until 3:45PM EST

 

[jacct]

Trial Day 12 - Part 5 Media Gag Order Hearing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSHn9Xaa-gE&feature=youtu.be&a

 

[Elainera]

I could understand if jury members lose "interest and enthusiasm" in the case, it's becoming a bit tiresome. Why exactly does defense want to question the expert about those test questions?