MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

[ChuckMaureen]

All that blood... and no shoe/footprints?

 

[mamilau320]

All that blood... and no shoe/footprints?

Well, her shoe/foot prints weren't even there, supposedly so I don't see why anyone else's couldn't have just"disappeared"..

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[Sovietsteel12]

Yeah, I've heard of it. A friend and I have begun investigating it independently as of a few days ago.

 

[jgfitzge]

Yeah, I've heard of it. A friend and I have begun investigating it independently as of a few days ago.

Do you mean you and a friend are conducting an independent investigation into the Risch case?

 

[Ibiz]

The last sighting of joan was on the edge of the road on route 128 (today its 95) by trapelo rd. If you google map this, you will see that is right beside the cambridge reservoir. One of the FBI docs(p.28) says that police have "divers searching nearby reservoir." If she fell in, maybe the divers were just unable to find her. Im not sure what the success rate is of finding a person after they go into a large body of water.

Well, if she was thinking of suicide then she might of tide something heavy to herself, and jumped in the reservoir.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

The last reported sighting of someone assumed to have been JR was close to a large body of water.

 

[billhp]

That's a good question, I couldn't find anything. Keep in mind, anything done before 1990 is tough to find on the internet unless it was updated, republished, scanned, etc..That is why trying to get the complete file from Lawrence Ford (the PDF author linked a few times here) would be a place to look. Now for Martin, well I have my theories. As I said, I don't believe he "knocked off this wife." However, I am guessing there were cracks in the marriage. I really believe there was some type of affair and he suspected it. I don't have time to go into the whole scenario of what I believe happened. I will in a future posting. To me, one of the key considerations is the short time they were in Lincoln before Joan disappeared. Whenever I consider one of the numerous theories and scenarios of her disappearance I think about that short time frame. The other key is the two-tone blue/gray automobile. As several people mentioned, the resolution of that point is the key to the mystery.

rRead about 1996 interveiw by morton and she thinks Joan is most certainly not alive.

 

[billhp]

I grew up in Lincoln,nine at the time of Joans vanishing.Lived less than a mile from the Rischs. The 128 sighting is about 4miles from Joans house,2a sighting less than a mile and 200 hundred yds down where old bedford rd intersects 2a.DOESNT make any sense unless she was in the strange car that Virgina keane said she noticed as she walked by from the school bus, she was RISCHS NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.This was at 3.15 3.20pm every school day.At 3.25pm mrs zeigler reported as she entered old bedford rd from rt 2a she stopped so a car could back out either the keanes driveway or the ricshs.Virgina keane and her mother said there was no car in the driveway at that time which means that car backed out of the Ricshs driveway.Also reported that the car stayed on old bedford towards the air base and bedford 2 miles up the road.Mrs keane lived on virgina rd which intersected old bedford.Did the police ever ask mrs zeigler how many people were in the car?did you notice a plate #?At 3.40pm mrs barker walked lillian backed home.The 2.15 3.30pm time frame is when Joans live changed forever and that car held the answers I believe.

 

[jgfitzge]

Hello billhp, I grew up in the Boston area, so you have the advantage of growing up in Lincoln, the scene of the mystery. I firmly believe the key to the whole case is the identity of the mysterious two tone car. I believe the eyewitness accounts, especially as it concerns the car are very credible. I have always found it curious how the police seemed to discredit Virginia Keane and Mrs. Zeigler concerning their spotting the blue two tone car. They claimed these witnesses must have seen it after 4:30...I suppose they could get away with saying that seeing one was a young high school girl and the other an older woman. However, I believe the two witnesses, one got off her school bus, same time every day, the other had to stop her car as the car backed out of the Risch's driveway. Further, the milk man five days before saw this same blue two tone car in the Risch's driveway. Oddly, I read no report where the police rebutted the milk man's statement.

So, what was the "word on the street" about what went down? I hear the mystery was "local." Did you know the kids as they got older?

 

[billhp]

Well we don't know for a fact that she was seen walking along the road... eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable and she was wearing very long clothing so as someone said, they probably wouldn't have been able to see blood on her legs

The police received no calls from people who claimed to be walking at either sighting, at 128 and rt 2a

 

[liz b.]

The police received no calls from people who claimed to be walking at either sighting, at 128 and rt 2a

Did the police get any calls from people who had been driving ? Also, can I ask what you think about the car in the driveway ? was the driver a man or a woman ? An affair ? She had just moved there though ?

 

[billhp]

Hello billhp, I grew up in the Boston area, so you have the advantage of growing up in Lincoln, the scene of the mystery. I firmly believe the key to the whole case is the identity of the mysterious two tone car. I believe the eyewitness accounts, especially as it concerns the car are very credible. I have always found it curious how the police seemed to discredit Virginia Keane and Mrs. Zeigler concerning their spotting the blue two tone car. They claimed these witnesses must have seen it after 4:30...I suppose they could get away with saying that seeing one was a young high school girl and the other an older woman. However, I believe the two witnesses, one got off her school bus, same time every day, the other had to stop her car as the car backed out of the Risch's driveway. Further, the milk man five days before saw this same blue two tone car in the Risch's driveway. Oddly, I read no report where the police rebutted the milk man's statement.

So, what was the "word on the street" about what went down? I hear the mystery was "local." Did you know the kids as they got older?

Hello igfitzge,I remember a friend of my bother who lived on 2a in back of the Rischs was spooked and concerned as were all the neighbors.Most people felt she was attacked and taken away.Being only 9 at the time i was not really plugged in and after a year it faded away.For some reason this Monday i googled the disaperance of Joan Ricsh and i was awakened to all interesting details of the case , that i had forgotten 55 years ago,now i cant get enough of the case.I never crossed paths with Lillian or David,but briefly met Doug Barker by way of a friend and didnt ask him about the case.Never heard of his family having any connection to Joans vanishing.THE POLICE by discrediting Virgina Keane and Mrs Zeigler car reports by over a hour has me thinking they were witholding infomation to maybe not alert the driver they were looking for that car ,but they were or were they covering up something?As you and I believe that car was the key to the puzzle!I wish the fbi had not left so early in the case,but over 1000 le were on the csae in the early years ,and STILL VERY ICE COLD!

 

[billhp]

Did the police get any calls from people who had been driving ? Also, can I ask what you think about the car in the driveway ? was the driver a man or a woman ? An affair ? She had just moved there though ?

lIZ b,I assume all the sighting reports were by people who were driving.The sighting reports did not indicate they were other walkers.At 3.20pm VIRGINA kEANE walked by Joans house and noticed a blue two toned car in the drive way that she had not seen before.At 3.25pm MRS Zeigler stopped her car to let A CAR BACK OUT OF THE RISCHs DRIVEWAY which drove towards the air base and bedford on old bedford rd per her report to the police.The report did not indicate if the driver was a man or woman,but a very good guestion and one the police should have asked. Mrs Zeigler lives on virgina rd which intersect old bedford.AS HAVING AN AFFAIR,MAYBE,but there was no evidence of any affair.The Rischs moved to Lincoln in April 1961, 7 months before her disappearance.

 

[billhp]

What is super curious to me is how that pool of blood ended up right at the corner of the kitchen... if it were a botched abortion or an accident how would it have ended up in the corner that cleanly? It almost looks like she would have had to have dumped blood there on purpose

Also my thought,looks like the blood was poured into the corner!

What is super curious to me is how that pool of blood ended up right at the corner of the kitchen... if it were a botched abortion or an accident how would it have ended up in the corner that cleanly? It almost looks like she would have had to have dumped blood there on purpose

My thought also,looks like the blood was poured into the corner and the smear below the telephone could have been done with a towel.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

If the blood was "poured", what was the source of the blood? Was it confirmed human blood? If it was JR's blood, she would have had to open a significant wound to obtain that much blood in a short period of time, or only an IV method if she extracted over a longer period.

What items were found in the home? Any sort of medical equipment, such as IV needles, syringes?

If JR disappeared under her own power, to where would she have gone? Alone, or with a friend / accomplice?

What of JR's reported activity regarding library books of disappearances and such... why would she want herself to become a "missing person" case? Talk of the town? A form of 'immortality'? She JR want to end up in the same type of books she was reported to have researched?

There are too many currently-unanswerable questions, and in deeper review those questions might not even be applicable.

 

[billhp]

If the blood was "poured", what was the source of the blood? Was it confirmed human blood? If it was JR's blood, she would have had to open a significant wound to obtain that much blood in a short period of time, or only an IV method if she extracted over a longer period.

What items were found in the home? Any sort of medical equipment, such as IV needles, syringes?

If JR disappeared under her own power, to where would she have gone? Alone, or with a friend / accomplice?

What of JR's reported activity regarding library books of disappearances and such... why would she want herself to become a "missing person" case? Talk of the town? A form of 'immortality'? She JR want to end up in the same type of books she was reported to have researched?

There are too many currently-unanswerable questions, and in deeper review those questions might not even be applicable.

CHUCKMAUREEN,We on this board only have access to maybe 25%of whats in the file for this case. This case drives you crazy and takes you in many different directions.It forces you to think and try figure it out which is fun! It would be easy if you had a iv with tube attached, and shutoff at the end of the tube to put blood exactly where you wanted it.Blood evidence showed a drop of blood on the first step of the stair case and one at the top step.Why no blood on the other steps ? You ask many good questions,that all on this board desperately want answers to,but we have no answers, but only have speculation or theory.Maybe Joan was taken away by the angry ghosts of British soldiers ambushed at bloody angle 1775 lol,or some day a persons last will describes in detail what happened Oct 24 1961 in lincoln ma.to Joan Risch,and the family and,board will have closer.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Fingerprint and palm print found at the scene... both remain unidentified.

 

[billhp]

Hello Ozoner, good questions...

A few comments concerning your posting -

My position on the Risch case has always been, "Well of course, anything is possible, but some things rate a higher probability of happening than others." So, yea, I consider the botched abortion theory. I also put it way down the list of possibilities. I do hold the miscarriage theory higher due to its suddenness and unpredictability. It also seems to fit the 4-6 month time frame if there was an affair going on soon after moving to Lincoln. I also do not think anything with having a simple cavity filled caused or contributed to her mental confusion. The beer bottles/drinking topic has also made me think a lot. Martin accounted for the whiskey bottle yet, not the beer bottles. Did he know something? If he was quick thinking and covering for her, he could have just as easily accounted for the beer bottles as well...Yet, if Joan was the suburban housewife with the drinking problem, where would she hide the beer? And, why dispose of it in the kitchen trash can? This is one of those questions where neighborhood scuttlebutt would help. By the way, as I mentioned before, Lincoln was a dry town in 1961, so if she bought beer, it had to be next town over, Waltham.

I have always found her falling into a pit or construction site and subsequently buried a bit unbelievable. There was an air/ground search for her in the days and weeks that followed. I can't see someone the next day mounting his tractor or dump-truck and not seeing a body in daylight...

I don't know about the locked car question. Odd, in the picture you see LE outside the car, no car doors open. Maybe that is why the intact coat hanger is on the roof? to pop the lock. I know today, people are obsessive about locking their cars with the remote and the fact that we have more valuables in our cars today. But, were people that way about locking their cars in 1961??

The neighbor, Barbara, brought her son over at around 1pm to play with Joan's daughter. Joan then took both children back to the neighbor's house shortly before 2pm, saying she would be back. The two children had not been playing at Joan's house for very long, so I wonder if she gave her neighbor a reason for bringing them over to her house. By 2:15 Barbara spotted Joan outside with something red in her hands. Was Joan feeling ill right before 2pm? Did she notice she was bleeding and wanted to take Lillian next door so she wouldn't see it? Was she expecting someone at 2pm? (I'm not suggesting she invited another man over, but someone might have invited himself over and she couldn't stop him. It would be crazy to invite a man over in the middle of the afternoon in a neighborhood full of housewives, especially when the schoolday was almost over and children would soon be all over the place.)

I tend to discount the abortion theory. I think that came up because police asked her husband if she might be pregnant. His reply that she wouldn't have been unhappy if she was suggests that the police might have insinuated she underwent a procedure. But she might have spontaneously lost a very early pregnancy that she hadn't yet informed her husband about. Or she might have been so early in the pregnancy she didn't know it herself. At first she may not have realized what was happening until she began bleeding so heavily she started to call an emergency number and then became disoriented and wandered away from the house.

It's a shame no one who saw her that day (if it was her) stopped to see if she was ok. She might have survived to enjoy a long and happy life.

The neighbor, Barbara, brought her son over at around 1pm to play with Joan's daughter. Joan then took both children back to the neighbor's house shortly before 2pm, saying she would be back. The two children had not been playing at Joan's house for very long, so I wonder if she gave her neighbor a reason for bringing them over to her house. By 2:15 Barbara spotted Joan outside with something red in her hands. Was Joan feeling ill right before 2pm? Did she notice she was bleeding and wanted to take Lillian next door so she wouldn't see it? Was she expecting someone at 2pm? (I'm not suggesting she invited another man over, but someone might have invited himself over and she couldn't stop him. It would be crazy to invite a man over in the middle of the afternoon in a neighborhood full of housewives, especially when the schoolday was almost over and children would soon be all over the place.)

I tend to discount the abortion theory. I think that came up because police asked her husband if she might be pregnant. His reply that she wouldn't have been unhappy if she was suggests that the police might have insinuated she underwent a procedure. But she might have spontaneously lost a very early pregnancy that she hadn't yet informed her husband about. Or she might have been so early in the pregnancy she didn't know it herself. At first she may not have realized what was happening until she began bleeding so heavily she started to call an emergency number and then became disoriented and wandered away from the house.

It's a shame no one who saw her that day (if it was her) stopped to see if she was ok. She might have survived to enjoy a long and happy life.

How do we know Joan brought the Doug and Lillie back to BB house at 2 pm?

 

[billhp]

Hello NVT,

Good points, the one that always resonated with me was point # 2 and the short time frame Barbara Barker went shopping. That just seemed very tight to me. On whether Lillian affected the crime scene, well maybe she did, maybe not. But, I say, what difference would that make in the larger picture? There were still prints on the wall and the contents of the trash can seems to be unaffected. Keep in mind, LE found no bloody footprints, so I do not think she was walking around the area in the blood.

The 30 minute shopping time frame also caught my attention,but being raised in Lincoln on Bedford road at the time jr disapperance, there are a few shopping trips that would work in the 30 minute time frame.#1 shopping for pumpkins at cooks farm stand on 2a located right before hanscom drive,less than 5 minutes each way.#2 and most reasonable destination joes country store located at the fork of 2a and lexington rd in Concord with farm stand next store,less than five minutes.You could buy papers , candy,cigs milk,bread,and canned goods.A Lincoln or Concord center trip would be 10+ minutes each way.

 

[DetectiveEva]

How do we know Joan brought the Doug and Lillie back to BB house at 2 pm?

Hello billhp,
this is information from Boston Record American, Wednesday, Jan 3, 1962. They wrote:
"At five minutes of two, the quiet 31-year-old wife of Martin D. Risch took their daughter, and the neighbor's son Douglas Barker, across narrow old Bedford Rd., Lincoln, to the grounds of his home and returned to her own alone."

Such information wasn't mentioned in BB statement. Interesting is she said that JR's daughter came to her house alone and saying that "she has permission from her mother to go to her house". Without given any hour.

All you can find here (in the second link pdf file):
Joan Risch Mystery has been Solved!!! - Home
http://www.truth-link.org/pdfs/imgall.pdf