MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

[bethanna2004]

What was the neighborhood scuttlebutt about it?

 

[liz b.]

Stumbled across this case while researching something unrelated.

A few points (that have probably already been voiced):

1. Seems strange that I saw nothing expressing that neighbors were overly concerned that an abductor was possibly on the loose after this happened. The theory regarding Joan staging her own disappearance didn't come to light until much later if I recall correctly.

2. Personally I do not buy the staged disappearance theme. Why? Because nothing has been presented to my knowledge to indicate "how" she would start over financially, etc. Also, very hard to believe she would not have made later contact with her children at least. Certainly ironic that her reading interest was of this nature, but not enough to convict.

3. Abortion? While this could have played a role (because nobody really knows), the reason I rule it out is that Lillian could have come back at any time (or David could have failed to take nap on schedule) and I don't see Joan trying to squeeze this procedure in on what seemed like an already busy day (dentist etc). Would be more likely if she had left both children at the Barker's house for the afternoon.

4. Little appears to be on record of the days, months, years following the event and how the family coped. Sorry but it strikes me as odd that the family never seemed to mount a high profile effort in later years to solve this (as if maybe they knew something). Not trying to judge because we all deal with things differently, but seems odd to me.

5. Very strange to me that neighbors reported seeing Joan outside the house but no reports of screaming or distress that day. I cannot imagine any mother who has children nearby not sounding the alarm (hysterical screaming) if she or the kids could be in danger.

6. The "other car": Can anyone elaborate on the reports of there being another car seen at the Risch home that day? This seems like the type of neighborhood where a car rushing away would have been noticed and remembered. Just can't figure out if there was or was not such a car.

Input/opinion appreciated!

I recall reading that a poster found a person living in California ( close to a place where Joan had relatives ) The woman in question matched Joan's age. This was back in this thread. fwiw...

 

[Onaliv]

I think a basic "was there any fears/concerns in the neighborhood during the weeks following her disappearance" would be an easy start. Just curious because I've not seen the usual "neighbors were locking their doors now" type of news reports from that time on this case.

 

[Ozoner]

I think a basic "was there any fears/concerns in the neighborhood during the weeks following her disappearance" would be an easy start. Just curious because I've not seen the usual "neighbors were locking their doors now" type of news reports from that time on this case.

If it was the typical suburban neighborhood, the gossiping neighbors probably thought they knew everything but actually knew next to nothing, so whatever theory the neighbors came up with can probably be scratched off the list.

 

[dogperson]

Stumbled across this case while researching something unrelated.

A few points (that have probably already been voiced):

1. Seems strange that I saw nothing expressing that neighbors were overly concerned that an abductor was possibly on the loose after this happened. The theory regarding Joan staging her own disappearance didn't come to light until much later if I recall correctly.

2. Personally I do not buy the staged disappearance theme. Why? Because nothing has been presented to my knowledge to indicate "how" she would start over financially, etc. Also, very hard to believe she would not have made later contact with her children at least. Certainly ironic that her reading interest was of this nature, but not enough to convict.

3. Abortion? While this could have played a role (because nobody really knows), the reason I rule it out is that Lillian could have come back at any time (or David could have failed to take nap on schedule) and I don't see Joan trying to squeeze this procedure in on what seemed like an already busy day (dentist etc). Would be more likely if she had left both children at the Barker's house for the afternoon.

4. Little appears to be on record of the days, months, years following the event and how the family coped. Sorry but it strikes me as odd that the family never seemed to mount a high profile effort in later years to solve this (as if maybe they knew something). Not trying to judge because we all deal with things differently, but seems odd to me.

5. Very strange to me that neighbors reported seeing Joan outside the house but no reports of screaming or distress that day. I cannot imagine any mother who has children nearby not sounding the alarm (hysterical screaming) if she or the kids could be in danger.

6. The "other car": Can anyone elaborate on the reports of there being another car seen at the Risch home that day? This seems like the type of neighborhood where a car rushing away would have been noticed and remembered. Just can't figure out if there was or was not such a car.

Input/opinion appreciated!

You make some very good points! You would think the other housewives in the neighborhood would have been fearful if they believed Joan was abducted. And they might have been fearful of letting their children outside to play. But we don't really see any evidence that this incident caused fear or panic.

I wonder if the other ladies on the street didn't take to Joan all that well. If there were rumors she might have been unhappy as a mom and housewife, maybe this means she didn't really click with the moms and housewives in the neighborhood. Maybe this led the other women to believe she really did run away or that she did get an abortion and something went wrong. If the other ladies weren't overly fond of her or felt she thought she was a cut above them due to her education and ambitions, they might have had the feeling she brought trouble on herself somehow.

Do we know for a fact she went to the dentist that morning or did she just tell the neighbor lady that she went? She took the kids with her, didn't she? I wouldn't expect her to take them with her to see an abortionist, though. But do we really know for sure she saw a dentist that morning or could something else have been going on?

 

[Skigirl]

You make some very good points! You would think the other housewives in the neighborhood would have been fearful if they believed Joan was abducted. And they might have been fearful of letting their children outside to play. But we don't really see any evidence that this incident caused fear or panic.

I wonder if the other ladies on the street didn't take to Joan all that well. If there were rumors she might have been unhappy as a mom and housewife, maybe this means she didn't really click with the moms and housewives in the neighborhood. Maybe this led the other women to believe she really did run away or that she did get an abortion and something went wrong. If the other ladies weren't overly fond of her or felt she thought she was a cut above them due to her education and ambitions, they might have had the feeling she brought trouble on herself somehow.

Do we know for a fact she went to the dentist that morning or did she just tell the neighbor lady that she went? She took the kids with her, didn't she? I wouldn't expect her to take them with her to see an abortionist, though. But do we really know for sure she saw a dentist that morning or could something else have been going on?

I believe that the dentist was interviewed by police and that the interview was in the file that is linked to in above messages, so I am pretty sure she went to the dentist that morning. Maybe the other women in the neighborhood quietly wondered or suspected that her husband had something to do with her disappearance and that it wasn't random, so no need to worry (if indeed they were not worried...maybe they were at first until time went by and they realized that there would be no follow-on crimes).

 

[liz b.]

You make some very good points! You would think the other housewives in the neighborhood would have been fearful if they believed Joan was abducted. And they might have been fearful of letting their children outside to play. But we don't really see any evidence that this incident caused fear or panic.

I wonder if the other ladies on the street didn't take to Joan all that well. If there were rumors she might have been unhappy as a mom and housewife, maybe this means she didn't really click with the moms and housewives in the neighborhood. Maybe this led the other women to believe she really did run away or that she did get an abortion and something went wrong. If the other ladies weren't overly fond of her or felt she thought she was a cut above them due to her education and ambitions, they might have had the feeling she brought trouble on herself somehow.

Do we know for a fact she went to the dentist that morning or did she just tell the neighbor lady that she went? She took the kids with her, didn't she? I wouldn't expect her to take them with her to see an abortionist, though. But do we really know for sure she saw a dentist that morning or could something else have been going on?

I always found it interesting that Joan moved to the town where her best friend from school lived. this best friend had a baby a few days before Joan disappeared. I recall reading that Joan had spoken to her friend either that morning or the day before. can't remember which day. Wonder if her best friend helped her disappear ? jmo

 

[bethanna2004]

I always found it interesting that Joan moved to the town where her best friend from school lived. this best friend had a baby a few days before Joan disappeared. I recall reading that Joan had spoken to her friend either that morning or the day before. can't remember which day. Wonder if her best friend helped her disappear ? jmo

I believe I read somewhere that she had told someone she didn't feel quite fulfilled after leaving her job. Thing of it is, if she left on her own, she would have had to take back up her career in journalism to be fulfilled. Wouldn't she have been recognized somewhere?

 

[Ozoner]

I believe I read somewhere that she had told someone she didn't feel quite fulfilled after leaving her job. Thing of it is, if she left on her own, she would have had to take back up her career in journalism to be fulfilled. Wouldn't she have been recognized somewhere?

The sightings of her walking by the road with bloody legs and the crime scene photos showing blood in her home come very close to ruling out the voluntary disappearance angle.

I believe she had a medical emergency, possibly due to the anesthetic she received at the dentist, possibly due to complication from an abortion, which would have been performed the day prior.

 

[dogperson]

How did women make contact with an abortion provider in those times? Did you have to ask around? I wonder if her best friend or another friend might have known someone to recommend to her. You would have to be careful who you asked; it would have to be someone who would keep quiet. It was illegal then, plus there was the social stigma if word got out that you'd had it done.

 

[Ozoner]

How did women make contact with an abortion provider in those times? Did you have to ask around? I wonder if her best friend or another friend might have known someone to recommend to her. You would have to be careful who you asked; it would have to be someone who would keep quiet. It was illegal then, plus there was the social stigma if word got out that you'd had it done.

An acquaintance might have put her in touch with an abortionist or acquired some kind of abortifacient for her. However, abortion is not the only possibility or even the most likely one.
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Something like an incomplete miscarriage or a fallopian tube rupture caused by an ectopic pregnancy could have led to the EXACT symptoms that can be inferred from the evidence.
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Either of those conditions could have caused bleeding, fainting, and possibly even an infection of the blood. Unclear thinking is a common symptom of sepsis, while fainting could have led to a head injury and in turn cognitive difficulties. A medical emergency like that would fit the evidence extremely well.

 

[STANDREID]

I wouldn't think the phone would be ripped from the wall if it was a "regular" medical problem.

 

[bethanna2004]

Did anyone look at the crime photos on truth-link.org? I looked at them again and it appears there are fresh droplets of blood over the smeared blood that someone tried to wipe up. I also noticed that the role of paper towels on the wall is empty. Anyone know of any other sites on the net where there are other crime photos? Just weird........I try to get a mental picture of what may have happened and nothing makes much sense.

 

[Skigirl]

The sightings of her walking by the road with bloody legs and the crime scene photos showing blood in her home come very close to ruling out the voluntary disappearance angle.

I believe she had a medical emergency, possibly due to the anesthetic she received at the dentist, possibly due to complication from an abortion, which would have been performed the day prior.

I don't think blood dripping down her legs had to have come from between her legs, i.e., from an abortion. It could have dripped down her body from almost anyplace, e.g., her abdomen, her chest, behind, etc., if it already had saturated her clothes under her jacket and was no longer being absorbed.

 

[liz b.]

Curious that a neighbor saw Joan running down her driveway with something red in her hands ?

 

[Ozoner]

I wouldn't think the phone would be ripped from the wall if it was a "regular" medical problem.

I disagree. If Joan started to faint or slip on her own blood and tried to clutch the phone as she fell, that could easily explain the phone.

 

[dogperson]

The description of the scene makes it sound like there wasn't that much blood but when you look at the photos there appears to be quite a bit of blood.

It seems to have started near the baby's crib, maybe about the time she put him down for a nap. And then I suppose she made her way downstairs and tried to deal with the emergency, whatever it was. Because she'd just had dental work done that day, my first thought is that her mouth started bleeding. But it's hard to imagine enough blood loss to cause her to become disoriented and wander off. Possible though, I suppose. My second thought is something gynecological, whether an abortion, spontaneous miscarriage, etc. That could definitely lead to a significant amount of blood.

When the neighbor saw her running and thought she was holding something red in her hands, it must have been the blood on her hands or a bloody towel or a wad of bloody paper towels. But why didn't she get help? Help was so close.

 

[puzzleme]

And what about the car that was seen in the driveway?

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[Ozoner]

The description of the scene makes it sound like there wasn't that much blood but when you look at the photos there appears to be quite a bit of blood.

It seems to have started near the baby's crib, maybe about the time she put him down for a nap. And then I suppose she made her way downstairs and tried to deal with the emergency, whatever it was. Because she'd just had dental work done that day, my first thought is that her mouth started bleeding. But it's hard to imagine enough blood loss to cause her to become disoriented and wander off. Possible though, I suppose. My second thought is something gynecological, whether an abortion, spontaneous miscarriage, etc. That could definitely lead to a significant amount of blood.

When the neighbor saw her running and thought she was holding something red in her hands, it must have been the blood on her hands or a bloody towel or a wad of bloody paper towels. But why didn't she get help? Help was so close.

It's possible that her medical emergency led to unclear thinking (resulting from sepsis, a stroke, a head injury, etc.), but it's also possible that she was simply too embarrassed to ask for help. If she was bleeding from her vagina, I could see that being very embarrassing for a woman back in that era.
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Maybe she was trying to walk to a hospital. I would like to know whether the place she was spotted along the road would have been en route to a hospital from her house.

 

[Skigirl]

It's possible that her medical emergency led to unclear thinking (resulting from sepsis, a stroke, a head injury, etc.), but it's also possible that she was simply too embarrassed to ask for help. If she was bleeding from her vagina, I could see that being very embarrassing for a woman back in that era.
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Maybe she was trying to walk to a hospital. I would like to know whether the place she was spotted along the road would have been en route to a hospital from her house.

If she was embarrassed, I would think she would discreetly call a friend or an ambulance, not walk around in public.