MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

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This is such a tough case to solve. No witnesses, no body discovery for 3 years, and no real suspects besides criminals who have committed similar acts. It very well could be Rodney Stanger who committed this crime. Real life is not like tv. Most of the time when police suspect someone they have the right person.

I think you have to look at the part of this case where the criminal messed up or perceived that he messed up. I think it is the discovery of Molly Bish's remains. Why did he bury the body and take the time to do that?

On the Dark Minds program, the detective said that they found mattresses and bed sheets among other items out in that Whiskey Hill area where Molly Bish's remains where found. Someone had to clean that stuff up. It could be as simple as a worker from the town of Palmer who then worked for the town of Warren, MA or vice versa. I just think ideas like these were probably checked out by police long ago.

I had one other kind of dumb idea or observation. If a person was watching Molly Bish before they kidnapped her, wouldn't it be kind of hard to see through all the trees? Where exactly was her lifeguard stuff set up? It might be a dumb observation, but if the guy that starred at Molly Bish's mom the day before is indeed the person who kidnapped Molly Bish, he really must have been confident that she would be working that Tuesday if he did not know her schedule. How does he know when she will arrive? Let's say for example Molly Bish's start time that Tuesday had been an hour earlier or later. Now that white car is sitting there in the cemetery for witnesses to remember for a longer period of time while he waits for her to arrive.

I thought the person might need binoculars. But hunters do use binoculars and Rodney Stanger was a hunter. He does not seeeeeeem like the guy to me, but what does that matter?
 
Her case was on disappeared this morning.

Searched for her google.

Typed Molly Bush.

Was not a fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I read that in cases like this home has a central part in understanding what a kidnapper/murderer does or thinks. Molly Bish's body was found out on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA. It might have been night when he transported her body. Maybe he needed a headlamp? If he has some familiarity with Whiskey Hill maybe it is because he dumped stuff there before, or got a speeding ticket in that area, or was doing metal detecting. It could be anything.

Sadly I think a lot of clues in this case got lost at the very beginning. My advice would be to think back to the very beginning. If a kidnapper has a victim at his home he is not going to want to be disturbed or take the chance the victim calls for help. So when calls were placed asking if Molly Bish had been seen, did anyone not pick up or got a busy signal? Who called first before being called? This does not mean the person is a kidnapper/murderer, only that it would make more sense. Often times it is some small little clue at the beginning that seems unimportant that ends up solving a case.
 
Evidence From Unsolved Molly Bish Murder To Be Sent For Advanced Testing
June 18, 2016 11:16 AM

Evidence in the cold case death of Molly Bish will be sent for new forms of DNA testing, investigators announced in advance of the 16th anniversary of the Warren lifeguard’s disappearance.

On Saturday, Worcester County District Attorney Joseph Early announced that 24 pieces of evidence from crime scenes connected to Bish’s murder will be sent for enhanced DNA testing.

Investigators believe the new DNA testing could take degraded and unusable samples and make them usable.
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The part that I always thought was odd about the case of Molly Bish is how the kidnapper carried the kidnapping out. If the kidnapper who murdered Molly Bish already knew that a cemetery connected to Commins Pond, why not watch her from the woods? Why not even walk down on to the beach and make conversation with Molly Bish? Criminals are not that smart and you should never forget that, but carrying out the crime that way certainly would have been smarter than getting into a stare contest with the person had he to know or assume was her mother.

I think if this case is ever solved, it will be someone who had ample knowledge about BOTH places. The Dark Minds author brought up great points. You cannot see the beach from the parking lot. And you cannot see the cemetery from the beach or at least that is the way it looked on t.v. If you take the car out of the equation, where would be the closest place you could take someone and keep them hidden?

Most likely the white car is important, but asking different questions helps bring up different perspectives. Ponds can sometimes breed lots of bugs. Maybe the person knew the area because they walked around spraying chemicals? It is another idea. I can only think that anyone that had any type of business association with Commins Pond or the cemetery would have been checked out way back in 2000, but you never know.
 
Or maybe the person grew up in the area so he knew about the pond and cemetery.
 
colette said:
Or maybe the person grew up in the area so he knew about the pond and cemetery.
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The simplest of all explanations and a very good one. I really never thought about it that way. The person does not need to work at Commins Pond or the cemetery in order to know it and the layout. They know it from being there during the course of their life.

Most likely police just need something to connect one of the main suspects, Rodney Stanger, to the crime. The smple answer is that police usually have the right suspect. He may have ran into Molly Bish in Sturbridge where he lived while she took her lifeguard certification class. It just seems like to me that whoever it was knew Molly Bish more than just casually.

I wonder why this kidnapper/murderer picked a lifeguard at a pond? He got lucky with his timing and location knowledge in my opinion. What if Molly Bish had let out a loud scream? Maybe it would not be heard anyway?

There is a lot of talk of the day before and the day of the disappearance. What I would like to know is where did Molly Bish go and hang out during the week leading up to her disappearance?
 
Pettibon Junction said:
According to Molly's family, she and Stanger frequented the same coffee shop before her disappearance.
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Rodney Stanger is a good suspect. I cannot deny that and most of the time when police have a good suspect they have the right person and just need something to definitely come out and say it was him. He does not SEEM like the guy to me. But I read when they showed him Molly Bish's picture he could not look at it. The Pledge is a good movie too.
 
I had one more question about Molly Bish's case. Since most kidnappers tend to kill their victims within the first 48 hours, I wanted to know what the search perimeters were during that first week Molly Bish was missing?

Molly Bish's remains were found on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA, which is about 5 miles from Commins Pond in Warren, MA. The remains were not found until June 2003.

If you were to shade in a map with all the areas(day by day) that were searched during the first week of Molly Bish's abduction, what type of pattern would it show?

What date was Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA searched?

This leads to a broader question that I have wondered about concerning missing person's cases. How is a search area determined? In Molly Bish's case, did the search leaders search in a radius in every direction from the pond or did they search in the direction the search dogs took them? I think the cemetery was north of the pond. Search dogs traced her from the pond to the cemetery.

I guess it makes sense searchers would not search too far because she was not wearing shoes and the last place you would think someone not wearing shoes would go by themselves would be to climb up the side of a hill with a bunch of tree branches and debris around. In this case you have to remember that up until June 2003, Molly Bish was a missing person.
 
somequestions said:
Rodney Stanger is a good suspect. I cannot deny that and most of the time when police have a good suspect they have the right person and just need something to definitely come out and say it was him. He does not SEEM like the guy to me. But I read when they showed him Molly Bish's picture he could not look at it. The Pledge is a good movie too.
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One thing's for certain: Stanger is, by all accounts, a terrifying guy (regardless of whether he killed Molly or not). However, the fact that he's been in prison for well over a decade and to my knowledge, either no one's run his DNA or the results were inconclusive, makes me question how serious a suspect he really is, which would lead us right back to square one (sadly).
 
There is one last theory in Molly Bish's case. I call it the new person theory. Simple enough, the reason no one else was kidnapped at Commins Pond before June 2000 is that the kidnapper was not living in Warren, MA until a short while before Molly Bish disappeared. My best guess is they moved from Ware/Palmer area to Warren, MA not too long before Molly Bish disappeared. So you start with the closest and go from there. On Commins Pond road, who had just moved in before June 2000. This theory is so loose though because determining when the person moved, where they moved from, or whether they even knew about Commins Pond is going to be very difficult to conclude with any certainty.


The main problem with any theories in this case stems from figuring out whether whoever it was the kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish had prior knowledge of her working at Commins Pond. Or was it like Rodney Stanger. He sees her from the parking lot in his white car and returns the next day to kidnap her. And Rodney Stanger might have had prior knowledge if Molly Bish ran into him at the coffee shop and told him she starts work at 10 am during the week at Commins Pond. When did Molly Bish get her schedule for working?


I tend to think whoever it was that kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish did not want the body discovered. I think that would be when they would take off. That is my best guess. People that are closest to the pond would have the best knowledge about the pond and cemetery or you would think. So start from there.
 
There is another aspect of Molly Bish's case I could not understand:

Why did the white car return to the Commins Pond parking lot on the day of the abduction?

According to the sand truck people, a white car was in the parking lot minutes before Molly Bish was dropped off for work. Then a while later the white car was spotted in the cemetery. Maybe the reason is the kidnapper planned on taking her out through the Commins Pond parking lot first, then saw the witnesses(sand truck people) and decided to drive around to the other side where the cemetery path was and walk down to the beach? But then why be there in the first place if her mom is going to be with her when she is dropped off? He had to think that.

I definitely think whoever it was that murdered Molly Bish is a very patient individual. The body being buried on the side of a hill next to a road makes me think whoever this person is, they do not seem to be concerned with being seen. Conflicted could be a good word. Doesn't care about being seen dragging, carrying, a body up a hill. Does care about being seen on the day on the day of the abduction. Maybe the person is a mover? Maybe he performed burial services there before and is a priest?

I think whoever it was that murdered Molly Bish has upper body strength. Maybe they were part of the YMCA or health club, but I think this man has some real strength. Either that or he is a very determined individual. When someone does something that seems out of the ordinary like potentially carrying a body up a hill, there is usually a reason. As for why he was initially at Commins Pond, maybe he was waiting to go to work? What businesses open around 11 am?

This case is very difficult to understand from the kidnapper/murderer's perspective. I don't get it.
 
Molly Bish's murder case looks like a carefully planned abduction/murder. But what if it is just like most kidnapping/murder cases where there is very little time between the kidnapping and murder? And there is this white car that seems to be everywhere. It must have been a large white car with a big trunk that all the witnesses saw. I wonder what the witness statements say about the white car. How large was the white car?

The reason that is important is because I measured a regular shovel and it came about to around 5 ft. So then I measured the trunk of my car from every point possible and the shovel could not fit. Now you have to guess that the murderer put Molly Bish's body in the trunk of their car.

I suppose the murderer could have put the shovel in the front or back seat of the car with them, but shovels usually have dirt on them after digging. So my question is, based on whatever size white car was seen by the witnesses:

Could the murderer fit the shovel in the trunk of his car?
 
Surely though there is more then one kind and shape and length of shovel out there ...Iam just guessing here but I think you are talking about the long shovel the one with the shovel part at the bottem then a long wood handle ..but theres others like the shorter one with a handle that u wrap your hand around , even the one your reffering to its made outta wood he could have just cut a foot off the top so it fits in the trunk...I think this has less to do about the kinda car and more about what kind of shovel he used if he used one at all ...
 
CanManEh said:
Surely though there is more then one kind and shape and length of shovel out there ...Iam just guessing here but I think you are talking about the long shovel the one with the shovel part at the bottem then a long wood handle ..but theres others like the shorter one with a handle that u wrap your hand around , even the one your reffering to its made outta wood he could have just cut a foot off the top so it fits in the trunk...I think this has less to do about the kinda car and more about what kind of shovel he used if he used one at all ...
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There's also the military type which folds into a much smaller size. Used for digging foxholes.
 
I do not have any advice to add about Molly Bish's case other than whenever I have had something stolen from me, it always seems to happen when I am not home. That always made me think that when someone wants to steal they want to make sure you are not there.

In my opinion, if a kidnapper wants to take a victim from a house, he would just make up some excuse and knock on the front door.
 
Hi,

I'm fairly new here and just spent the entire day reading through this thread, researching Molly's abduction and murder, and all the POIs named in the case. I have to say that at the end of it, I'm fairly convinced the murderer is Rodney Stanger. I understand that tests were performed against his DNA but they were inconclusive. Still doesn't exonerate him.

A bloody-faced man screaming at a campsite that 'something happened in the woods' sounds like an amateur and whoever abducted Molly knew what he was doing, was very careful and planned in advance. I doubt the killer would implicate himself in such a way.
 
Neferbunny said:
Hi,

I'm fairly new here and just spent the entire day reading through this thread, researching Molly's abduction and murder, and all the POIs named in the case. I have to say that at the end of it, I'm fairly convinced the murderer is Rodney Stanger. I understand that tests were performed against his DNA but they were inconclusive. Still doesn't exonerate him.

A bloody-faced man screaming at a campsite that 'something happened in the woods' sounds like an amateur and whoever abducted Molly knew what he was doing, was very careful and planned in advance. I doubt the killer would implicate himself in such a way.
Click to expand...

Welcome, and I agree. Whoever killed Molly displayed a high degree of organization and this was likely not his first offense.
 
Time is what makes this case interesting to me.

I always wanted to know whether police used a stopwatch to check two different routes. First, according to the show Disappeared, Molly and her mom left the convenience store at 9:50am. Then they went to the police station to pick up the two way radio. Then they went to Comins Pond. Then Molly is able to walk to her spot and set up all her stuff before being kidnapped. How long would all that take to do?

Then there is the white car that enters the Comins Pond parking lot on the day of the abduction before Molly and her mom arrive in their car. Comins Pond road is one way in one way out so if the white car had been leaving when Molly and her mom were arriving, they would have seen it. So since it is about a mile to drive from the pond parking lot to the cemetary, how long would it take to start your car at Comins Pond parking lot and drive to the cemetery, park, and walk down close to the spot where Molly Bish set up her stuff?

Even if the kidnapper/murderer was at the pond earlier or if they watched her the day before, I could not figure out why they did not put their plan into action if they were there early. You do not have to feign an injury. Removing things from the backpack, setting up the chair facing the water, would all be opportune times to come behind someone and grab them.

There are a lot of suspects in this case. There is her boyfriend at the time who had a cut on his lip that seemed suspicious and did not really help much in the early searches. You have her work supervisor who ran into her brother at the hardware store, but did not mention Molly was not at work. I often wonder what he bought at the hardware store or what aisle he was in when he ran into Molly's brother. You have cemetery workers and sand truck dump truck who since they rarely ever seem to be talked about must have been eliminated from consideration early on. Both workers probably use shovels. Did police look in the cemetery shed to see what size shovels were in there? Where did the sand come from? Was it just one dump truck that delivered it?

And you also have Rodney Stanger. I even came up with an idea for why the white car might have returned to Comins Pond parking lot on the day of the abduction. The driver wanted to see if the Bish car was there. Once he saw it was not there he assumed Molly Bish had been dropped off and put his plan of kidnapping her at the cemetery into motion. Does time support that idea making sense? Or would he end up at his spot looking down at the lifeguard area earlier than Molly Bish would end up at her spot on the beach?

Losing your child is not the same as losing your phone or any other item. I think there is as much a possibility that Molly Bish's kidnapper/murderer is a stranger as much as any of the suspects above. You could make the argument that Molly Bish's kidnapper/murderer is as much a calm and collected person who is not in any rush to kidnap her as much as you could make the argument the kidnapper/murderer arrived late(after 10am) to the pond area Molly Bish was taken from. That is why this case is so difficult to solve.
 
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