MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

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The Judge was talking about the problem with the defense bringing this witness in late and her possible desire to be part of the trial without the defense seeking her out and asking for her help.

All legitimate issues and within her duty to make a ruling on. JMO.
IMO Yes but it was her affect and attitude
Her comments were snarky and said with a belittling attitude. There was a sneer in her voice. The same way she likes to talk to AJ.
I was happy to see him absolutely push back on her assertions strenuously - imo she was out of line.
Just a different viewpoint
Imo.
 
IMO Yes but it was her affect and attitude
Her comments were snarky and said with a belittling attitude. There was a sneer in her voice. The same way she likes to talk to AJ.
I was happy to see him absolutely push back on her assertions strenuously - imo she was out of line.
Just a different viewpoint
Imo.
It's unambiguous that she's biased towards the prosecution. It oozes out of her every time she talks to either of the defense attorneys.
 
You cut out that I found it's an interesting view point to me.

I didn't say that I disagreed with it or it's a wrong view point.

If this particular trial process is tainted then the appellate courts are there to remedy that. Although I don't see a conviction in this case that would make an appeal a reality.

JMO.

The process was tainted before it got to trial, which is why it feels to spectators that the state’s witnesses are on trial while under cross. The immediate remedy for questionable evidence being allowed presentation is in the deliberation room. And the outcome affects everyone because these tactics have and probably will again be used against innocent people lacking KR’s luck and money. Those cases don’t often get to trial at all, so no chance for any appeal against bad processes. That’s why this moment matters.
 
IMO Yes but it was her affect and attitude
Her comments were snarky and said with a belittling attitude. There was a sneer in her voice. The same way she likes to talk to AJ.
I was happy to see him absolutely push back on her assertions strenuously - imo she was out of line.
Just a different viewpoint
Imo.
Exactly and his reasons for pushing back are so it is recorded.
There is a record now.
He has an amazing brain.
Wish we had his ilk here.
 
Can’t there be a scenario where she didn’t hit him with her car, and there isn’t a conspiracy? I’m not sure what it would be but in this speculative scenario the good ole boy’s club is just sticking together because they were all drunk driving and were made aware they were being investigating by the fbi for previous doings.

I really am trying to be rational and partial to all evidence, and there is some evidence she could have done it, not a intentionally in my opinion, but the other side, there is so much doubt and factual information information she didn’t even do it, I don’t see how it’s a conviction
 
sorry if someone has mentioned this, but I find it very fascinating that KR was calling JOK almost every minute from about 12:33 to about 12:41. Afterwards, JM started calling him and Karen stopped. She didn’t call again until 12:58.

unsure sure what to make of that. it's so strange that both she and Jen McCabe were calling him at the same time.
 
Can’t there be a scenario where she didn’t hit him with her car, and there isn’t a conspiracy? I’m not sure what it would be but in this speculative scenario the good ole boy’s club is just sticking together because they were all drunk driving and were made aware they were being investigating by the fbi for previous doings.

I really am trying to be rational and partial to all evidence, and there is some evidence she could have done it, not a intentionally in my opinion, but the other side, there is so much doubt and factual information information she didn’t even do it, I don’t see how it’s a conviction
I think that’s fair. The trouble I am having is so many were involved with pre- hearings and talk of FBI etc. I began following at the trials onset, hopefully the jury too. I’m still not certain what exactly the FBI’s focus is. I e been reticent to voice my thoughts bc they may not go over well. Sure, at this point without the defense having it their case out I can’t sayin definitively , but looking at it’s what is a reasonable, I can clearly see KR having hit him. Can’t say it was deliberate at this point of course, but to me, I see that vs some crazy plan to kill him. JMO. It could change, but I am open to other evidence.
 
sorry if someone has mentioned this, but I find it very fascinating that KR was calling JOK almost every minute from about 12:33 to about 12:41. Afterwards, JM started calling him and Karen stopped. She didn’t call again until 12:58.

unsure sure what to make of that. it's so strange that both she and Jen McCabe were calling him at the same time.
She was calling him after he entered the house, she wanted to know whether he was staying or not. Then she probably drove home. JM was at the party and wondering where he was, I presume as they had spoken or texted while he was en route to or at the residence.
Depending on the time JM started calling him, there might be another aspect to this..
 
The process was tainted before it got to trial, which is why it feels to spectators that the state’s witnesses are on trial while under cross. The immediate remedy for questionable evidence being allowed presentation is in the deliberation room. And the outcome affects everyone because these tactics have and probably will again be used against innocent people lacking KR’s luck and money. Those cases don’t often get to trial at all, so no chance for any appeal against bad processes. That’s why this moment matters.
The State's witness's are on trial? I thought the problem is with the defense witness's.

I'm not sure what you mean by a remedy in the deliberation room. Along with the defendants luck and money. I don't see her being lucky or wealthy. JMO.
 
The State's witness's are on trial? I thought the problem is with the defense witness's.

I'm not sure what you mean by a remedy in the deliberation room. Along with the defendants luck and money. I don't see her being lucky or wealthy. JMO.
I feel that the States case which many are aggravated about took The long and winding road bc of the defenses accusations about the Canton crowd. I can’t believe Lally would have intentionally tortured himself otherwise . It could have been a 3 week case. But, we had to interrogate everyone etc, sure good to have all the stories, but it’s been over the top . If they didn’t , they would be crucified. Still, I am open, jmo on this long and tedious event .
 
sorry if someone has mentioned this, but I find it very fascinating that KR was calling JOK almost every minute from about 12:33 to about 12:41. Afterwards, JM started calling him and Karen stopped. She didn’t call again until 12:58.

unsure sure what to make of that. it's so strange that both she and Jen McCabe were calling him at the same time.
Different reasons though.
 
The State's witness's are on trial? I thought the problem is with the defense witness's.

? The defense hasn't put any witnesses up yet. What problem are you referring to?

I'm sure it's confusing for people though. Seeing how helpful so much of the prosecution witnesses' testimony thus far has been for Read's defense.
 
I have to tell you that this doesn’t read true. My husband is non military and he goes golfing at one of the biggest bases on the east coast. Yes you have to have a member so to speak, but I could go too if I wished . Higgins s was retired with ID, he has access.
Yeah, but Higgins went out of his way to go on base to dispose of his cellphone. It wasn't on his way to anywhere else, and he wasn't on base for shopping like he implied. Or he shouldn't have been. ATF agents certainly aren't supposed to be buying tax free groceries or cheaper gas on base. They check ID cards at the register and regardless of being an authorized visitor, only mil, retirees, dependents, and certain civ workers are supposed to be using those facilities.
 
Can’t there be a scenario where she didn’t hit him with her car, and there isn’t a conspiracy? I’m not sure what it would be but in this speculative scenario the good ole boy’s club is just sticking together because they were all drunk driving and were made aware they were being investigating by the fbi for previous doings.

I really am trying to be rational and partial to all evidence, and there is some evidence she could have done it, not a intentionally in my opinion, but the other side, there is so much doubt and factual information information she didn’t even do it, I don’t see how it’s a conviction
It's plausible that he passed out in the snow or drunkenly staggered into the road, before going into the house, plow guy or someone clipped him, and the investigating cops completely screwed up the investigation. But the plow hitting him isn't likely.
My theory for most likely is that he didn't enter the house but got into a fight in the yard and they didn't know or were too drunk to care what happened to him. And Albert spun a line of BS to Proctor and sent him down the wrong path on what happened or pulled some TBL brotherhood crap with him. And once Proctor decided KR did it, they only looked for evidence against her, not any evidence.
My 2nd most likely is that he was hit by another party guest driving drunk and they didn't say anything. And same as above when they found the body. And where he was found doesn't mean that's where he was thrown. That's just where he fell down for the last time.
3rd most likely is it was an accident with just JO, nobody else knew. Split his head on the front steps, stagger away, lose a shoe and fall in the snow?
I can't wait to see what the Feeb grand jury is about. They don't bother with something like that if it was something like a drunk ATF agent driving a gov vehicle. And it HAD to be related in some way to JO death because why hire accident reconstruction specialists otherwise?
 
Yeah, but Higgins went out of his way to go on base to dispose of his cellphone. It wasn't on his way to anywhere else, and he wasn't on base for shopping like he implied. Or he shouldn't have been. ATF agents certainly aren't supposed to be buying tax free groceries or cheaper gas on base. They check ID cards at the register and regardless of being an authorized visitor, only mil, retirees, dependents, and certain civ workers are supposed to be using those facilities.
That’s right, he wouldn’t have commissary privileges as far as I know. I’m sorry I don’t recall him saying he went shopping. May have missed that, but I was responding to those stating he could t get on base on his own.
 
That’s right, he wouldn’t have commissary privileges as far as I know. I’m sorry I don’t recall him saying he went shopping. May have missed that, but I was responding to those stating he could t get on base on his own.
He said something about shopping and cheaper gas when he was testifying. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been using the facilities and flashing his ATF badge but that's fraud. Not that CID would care enough to investigate. Most CID make Proctor look like Sherlock Holmes.
 
Can’t there be a scenario where she didn’t hit him with her car, and there isn’t a conspiracy? I’m notI've sure what it would be but in this speculative scenario the good ole boy’s club is just sticking together because they were all drunk driving and were made aware they were being investigating by the fbi for previous doings.

I really am trying to be rational and partial to all evidence, and there is some evidence she could have done it, not a intentionally in my opinion, but the other side, there is so much doubt and factual information information she didn’t even do it, I don’t see how it’s a conviction
I've thought about this. Perhaps when he got to the door he decided to not go in and instead decided to go ahead and return to the car, but KR had moved forward. On his way to the car, he slipped and fell and whacked his head and no one noticed it. KR probably had music playing and she was texting him like crazy. Maybe he slipped in the driveway or near the where the jeep was and smacked his head on the slow plow on the jeep. Maybe he crawled toward KRs car and just finally passed out where he ended up. Then, maybe in the middle of the night some kind of animal tried to carry him off to their lair and got spooked and left him there, or gave up because he was too heavy.
 
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