MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #12

[arielilane]

Keep in mind this post will differ from most… it’s not meant to be anything more than an opinion, which does not make it fact. It’s actually rambling...

As we know deliberations haven’t started yet, though I trust that the jurors will come back with the correct verdict.
Jurors take their civic duty seriously and I respect whatever verdict the jurors return. I am most appreciated for their civic duty. It’s not easy to be a juror, especially in this case, a difficult one, I imagine.

I don't believe she will be convicted because the CW didn’t provide the legal burden that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

If there is any conviction, will it be (???) motor vehicle manslaughter while driving under the influence, and leaving the scene of a collision causing injury or death???

Not sure, but maybe she receives probation -- if convicted on that charge?

Also, did not think the last three witnesses were all that strong of a witness(es).

This is not about the last three witnesses (just an overview):
No expert can definitively say that JOK's arm injuries were from a dog, only that it’s possible I would not have any respect for an expert who claimed otherwise and/or claimed to know exactly what happened.


Thanks to the shoddy investigation, the loved ones of JOK will never know what really happened to Officer O'Keefe. I am sad for them.


I liked the judge who is presiding over the case. Thought she kept the trial moving forward (you’re welcome, ADA), and asked questions unlike some judges. She is actively involved. During some trials, you wonder if the judge is paying attention.

We shall see. Not against KR, seeking justice only. The real answers to what happened are lost (forever?)...

moo

 

[ch_13]

Almost Certainly Involved
1. BH
That 2:30 am call between him and BA. Body shows up on lawn sometime after 3 am.

There is no one who acted more bizarrely that evening that Higgins.

• Sent that "Ummmmm Well?" text to KH while they were both at the Waterfall
• Arrived at 34 Fairview before everyone else and plowed the driveway for some reason, even thought there was minimal snow
• Texted John "where you at" to get him to come to the house, but then claims he left pretty soon thereafter
• The magical jeep that only some people saw in front of the house
• Takes one hour to drive a couple of miles to the police department. Says it was due to the bad weather, even though he was driving a jeep and others (Karen, Matt McCabe, Caitlin's boyfriend) were all driving at more or less normal speeds
• Goes to police department that night to move cars around
• Simultaneous butt dials between him and Brian Albert
• Next morning he goes into the PD and spends the entire day there even though he's off that day.

And then of course there's all the curious stuff with him going onto a military base and destroying his phone.

 

[Chelly]

there would have been a walk out sliding door or a bulkhead door. Not a clear picture, but it looks like there may be a brown blukhead door.

There was a bulkhead door and it was replaced, probably about the same time the basement floor was replaced. Photos of the new bulkhead door were shown during testimony.

ETA: The basement floor was carpeted on top of cement. Both carpet and cement were replaced. (I will add IMO since I'm not including a link, but there are photos in evidence)

 

[KSwizzle]

If you believe what the two FBI hired experts concluded, Higgins is the most interesting suspect with his actions post death of JOK

But I mean all of them did odd and weird things, I originally thought it couldn't be a conspiracy but now, who knows

 

[HarmonyE.]

There is no one who acted more bizarrely that evening that Higgins.

• Sent that "Ummmmm Well?" text to KH while they were both at the Waterfall

Do you think it's possible that Karen may have mentioned this text to John when they got into the car?

And if she did, we know how drunk John was at the time and we know how many Jameson and gingers Higgins admitted to having.

Ummmmm ...Well?

 

[geevee]

The most shocking part of the trial for me has been just how much information the CW revealed that really only points to the "crazy" conspiracy theory. Which is also why I am surprised anyone wanted this trial. Pre-trial (I've been very closely following this for about a year and a half) I didn't really think she hit him but I didn't completely rule it out, I was closer to thinking a freak accident happened when he got out of the car and started walking towards the house. Initially during the trial I thought maybe she did accidentally hit him but Proctor, etc. did so many things to "help" the investigation along, they created a completely implausible scenario that they can never prove. But now, with the totality of information we've learned, I think the CW got closer to proving the conspiracy/cover up and the involvement of people at 34 Fairview than anything else. Certain things have no innocent explanation, IMO.

Yes, Lally was a sharp-shooting assassin aimed at his own case. I can only ponder that he was forced by Morrisey (IMO) to take this case to trial, against his own better judgement.

Any experienced prosecutor, when faced with the paltry evidence he had (and all of the other problems with this case) would know the chances of conviction on any of the charges was near zero if not in the negative.

Just the fact that the FBI was investigating the investigation told him everything he needed to know about the quality of the evidence/witnesses (or lack thereof).

 

[Derph]

I read it is true as updated today. THAT better of happened, start being accountable with them CPD powers that be. The officers did not have that ability themselves at the time. Thought it was the cement floor he jack hammered up and repaired to it's formerly pristine, no crimes committed here, state.

Don't forget selling the house for $50,000 under market value in an absolutely booming real estate market!!

 

[Spectrix]

If there is any conviction, will it be (???) motor vehicle manslaughter while driving under the influence, and leaving the scene of a collision causing injury or death???

No, there will not.
The expert witnesses proved that there was no collision. KR did not cause injury or death to anyone. She didn't leave the scene of an accident because there was no accident.

It can't even be proven that she was driving under the influence, because by the time she was tested, she had ample opportunity to have drinks at JOKs home when she returned there, or at her parents when she eventually went there.

 

[bobbymkii]

For some time now I've been of the opinion that the main goal of the Norfolk County DA's office has not been to convict Karen Read of 2nd Degree Murder, or any lesser-included charges in the indictment. Rather, their attitude is that the longer KR is merely indicted with causing John O'Keefe's death, the longer they aren't obligated to investigate anyone else or let the case go cold.

There were multiple occasions during the discovery phase of this trial where damning exculpatory evidence was revealed that made conviction of KR on any charges impossible. It really should not have gone this far.

If they get a hung jury mistrial I think the CW will secretly be delighted.

JMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

If they get a hung jury mistrial I think the CW will secretly be delighted.

They'd be openly thrilled, IMO.

But I don't see it happening. If there is a holdout, and considering how long this insanity has been going on, I'd expect the other jurors to go all Jill Daniels on them.

 

[Warwick7]

It was really interesting watching Lally attempt to cross examine the three expert witnesses today. Long pauses where he is just standing there, the hamster in a wheel inside his head rotating as fast as it could.

"What, if anything, can I possibly say to discredit this witness?" *crickets*

The other observation I've had over the past couple of days is the behaviour of JOK's brother who is present each day directly to the judges right. He is no longer staring contemptuous daggers at KR. It was was a long, long way into the trial before he seemed to finally change his mind.

I couldn't see, was he there today?

 

[Maat99]

I will take anyone.

I just want the truth to come out and bad people to be put away.

But what are the chances of anyone being pressured to make a deal?

Can one realistically hope?

There is at least a chance someone will make a deal. For all we know the fbi tracked down shards of BAs basement floor and found JOs blood and dna, or maybe they were able to recover deleted video footage. Anyone who helped stage the scene or hide evidence (but didn’t commit the murder) might be compelled to make a deal if additional evidence was found. There is still hope imo!

There is also a chance that some people went along with some shenanigans because someone convinced them KR was definitely guilty. They may not appreciate being duped into being an accomplice to a murder cover up and thus talk to the fbi in exchange for some deal.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

X post from 7 hrs ago.

@FallRiverReport

Wow. What a morning. We are live at Norfolk Superior Court for the murder trial of #KarenRead. It has been a crazy morning talking to supporters of Read outside, some flying in from Michigan and Colorado, just to be here for Karen.


9:00 AM · Jun 24, 2024

 

[ch_13]

From before this trial started, I've always said that in my mind the physical evidence is paramount: Could the wounds that John sustained have been caused by the SUV? How did his body end up where it did? Does the broken taillight and lack of other damage to the Lexus make sense?

We had seven grueling weeks of testimony before anyone got around to start talking about the science. But once we finally did, I thought it was very instructive. Every expert stated that Karen hitting John with her vehicle and causing his injuries ranges from unlikely to impossible. (I'm excluding Trooper Paul here, because I simply don't think he's an expert.) Even the commonwealth's ME's agreed it was unlikely. Additionally, John should have fallen at the spot he suffered those skull fractures, so the placement of his body doesn't really make sense because the ground there would have been too soft. And the damage to Karen's car is inconsistent with a pedestrian strike.

Of course, it's certainly possible that the jury may decide to ignore what the testimony of the experts. I think sometimes when you get folks who are scientifically illiterate, they tend to ignore what they don't understand. But if the jury does care about the actual physical evidence then I believe we'll get a not guilty verdict.

 

[MassGuy]

I can't ever recall a case we've discussed on here where the majority of people either feel the accused is factually innocent, or that the evidence does not support the charges (where I am here). This is the first case I've ever followed where I am rooting for a not guilty verdict. I do fully expect her to be acquitted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took some time.

 

[cocomod]

Not impressed with the Irish Doc. Why do none of these people write reports. Lally did a good cross on him.

He is not a prosecution witness. He only needs to insert reasonable doubt as to the CW's case - which is severally lacking. IMO, the CW witnesses are the ones to write a report for the "case file", not the defense experts that can and in this case DO directly contradict the CW "experts"

Do you know what the reason was for that ruling? I must have missed that, I just knew it couldn't be said...

I think to not prejudice the jury. But, what strikes me the most is the way that the judge dismisses them as relevant!! She should know better than anyone that these experts were not biased either way!

I think prosecution utterly failed to inflict any damage during cross examination with the only exception being when he asked if a collision of 1-5 mph could have caused the damage to the taillight. It is potentially significant that the defense witness agreed that such a slow collision could not have caused the damage.

That could be a bit of a problem if we had a picture of the tail light before the "lead investigator" came into contact with it! If I were on the jury, I would still question how much damage happened to the tail light AFTER LE took control of the vehicle.



Thank you to everyone for the blow-by-blow today! I will have to go home and watch this tonight! I had Monday management meetings all day, so just catching up now! I still think the CW totally blew their case before the defense even had to put on their case. I sincerely believe this will be a slam dunk for the defense and the NG verdict will come quickly!

Now, again, about those closing arguments... I hope the defense HAMMERS each and every single point!

@any attorney in the house...
Is it normal for a judge to change up closing arguments?
Is it normal for a judge to bring in KR after the defense rests and
when the jury is not present?
Is is normal for a judge during testimony to tell a jury what they
should be listening for in a testimony?

 

[Odeto BJ]

Yes, Lally was a sharp-shooting assassin aimed at his own case. I can only ponder that he was forced by Morrisey (IMO) to take this case to trial, against his own better judgement.

Any experienced prosecutor, when faced with the paltry evidence he had (and all of the other problems with this case) would know the chances of conviction on any of the charges was near zero if not in the negative.

Just the fact that the FBI was investigating the investigation told him everything he needed to know about the quality of the evidence/witnesses (or lack thereof).

And thus we illuminate the confluence of politics and the law...We can't know the extent of the past political support afforded Morrisey from the Albert, McCabe, Daniels and Farris families but its apparent that those families swing a big stick in the neighborhood. All that would be SOP though obviously the families never recognized the rest of that slogan's content: "Talk Softly...." MOO
Lally may well have recognized the frailty of the prosecution's case but that does not justify his own mumbling, illogical handling of the presentation of evidence. I believe on top of the forced feed appointment to prosecutor in this case, he was at least somewhat cowed by the well established and presumably well funded defense team. MOO again.
I wonder who writes the fattest and who writes the fastest book on this case. Lally might find a new career.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

For some time now I've been of the opinion that the main goal of the Norfolk County DA's office has not been to convict Karen Read of 2nd Degree Murder, or any lesser-included charges in the indictment. Rather, their attitude is that the longer KR is merely indicted with causing John O'Keefe's death, the longer they aren't obligated to investigate anyone else or let the case go cold.

There were multiple occasions during the discovery phase of this trial where damning exculpatory evidence was revealed that made conviction of KR on any charges impossible. It really should not have gone this far.

If they get a hung jury mistrial I think the CW will secretly be delighted.

JMO

Oh yeah I think this too! I can also see the whole "well we did what we could" attitude after KR is found not guilty, to then not have to investigate anyone else because it's a case of "it's her, we just can't prove it"...jmo.

 

[Curiousobserver]

There is at least a chance someone will make a deal. For all we know the fbi tracked down shards of BAs basement floor and found JOs blood and dna, or maybe they were able to recover deleted video footage. Anyone who helped stage the scene or hide evidence (but didn’t commit the murder) might be compelled to make a deal if additional evidence was found. There is still hope imo!

There is also a chance that some people went along with some shenanigans because someone convinced them KR was definitely guilty. They may not appreciate being duped into being an accomplice to a murder cover up and thus talk to the fbi in exchange for some deal.

JMO

What a horrible thing to do though, to let KR go through a trial with a possibility that she would spend time in jail, if you knew the FBI was on the trail of a murder investigation. Why not just delay the trial.

 

[kittythehare]