MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #12

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Can only comment on the witnesses presented so far.

Weak start for the defence.

moo
I was expecting some big bombshell moments after all the hype from the KR team, however not sure who was worse, the snowplow drivers questionable timeline or the IT expert who sounded confused about the program and the timestamps and actual searches! Lally did an amazing job on cross, and can't wait for his closing.
 
I don't agree with that hypothesis nether does LE, It is more likely actions from consciousness of guilt, venting at him, blaming him for....'look what you just made me do".

But indulging that idea for a second, still is contradictory at minimum to what she said happened.

That alone has proven she is a liar.

Her statement was..... there was no issues or problems and she went home to bed.

Caught up critically lying at the very moment she is accused of leaving John for dead.
Exactly. Why lie!
 
An innocent person doesn't need to.

I suspect, she had forgotten about those voice mails.
She had ALOT on her plate dealing with saving her backside that night and her rageful immediate reaction got lost in the haze.

whoops.
The evidence can't be ignored; the key cycle log, the animal attack on his arm, the fact that she connected to his home's wifi when JMcC testified she saw KR in front of 34F, the fact that a 7000 lb. vehicle can't launch a 220 lb. man 30 feet in the air without at a bare minimum bruising whichever part of his body it connected with (which would be below his neck).

So much cannot just be shuffled aside because one doesn't like the type of person the accused is.
 
The evidence can't be ignored; the key cycle log, the animal attack on his arm, the fact that she connected to his home's wifi when JMcC testified she saw KR in front of 34F, the fact that a 7000 lb. vehicle can't launch a 220 lb. man 30 feet in the air without at a bare minimum bruising whichever part of his body it connected with (which would be below his neck).

So much cannot just be shuffled aside because one doesn't like the type of person the accused is.
Those things are all guestimates though.
maybe??? but maybe not.

Karen Reads voice mails at the critical moment are FACT physical evidence. It happened.

Karen Read being in a rageful drunk abusive state at the very moment she last seen John can not be ignored.

It is the very most important detail in the case.
She was there...she was mad as hell.... she got outta dodge quick smart.

All the what ifs maybe....could be this could be that are not comparable to voice mails by Karen
exposing her lie about nothing being wrong.

moo
 

Defense for woman accused of killing police officer boyfriend tries to show she was framed​

Updated Fri, June 21, 2024 at 4:03 PM EDT
 
Those things are all guestimates though.
maybe??? but maybe not.

Karen Reads voice mails at the critical moment are FACT physical evidence. It happened.

Karen Read being in a rageful drunk abusive state at the very moment she last seen John can not be ignored.

It is the very most important detail in the case.
She was there...she was mad as hell.... she got outta dodge quick smart.

All the what ifs maybe....could be this could be that are not comparable to voice mails by Karen
exposing her lie about nothing being wrong.

moo
So does this mean you believe JO was struck by KR with her Lexus and JO's injuries are consistent with that?

And the damage to the Lexus is consistent with a pedestrian strike?

And you think Joseph Paul's testimony about a car/pedestrian strike is credible?

Just for the record
 
I don't agree with that hypothesis nether does LE, It is more likely actions from consciousness of guilt, venting at him, blaming him for....'look what you just made me do".
snipped.

Since Michael Proctor is the lead investigator on this case, I will say that his thoughts on whether the voicemails display "consciousness of guilt" or not have zero weight with me. I understand that some people may consider his investigation to be unbiased. However, I 100% disagree. If there is one thing the evidence revealed in this trial it is that he was out to get Karen Read from the get-go. He is simply a bad cop and unworthy of the badge he is wearing.
 
snipped.

Since Michael Proctor is the lead investigator on this case, I will say that his thoughts on whether the voicemails display "consciousness of guilt" or not have zero weight with me. I understand that some people may consider his investigation to be unbiased. However, I 100% disagree. If there is one thing the evidence revealed in this trial it is that he was out to get Karen Read from the get-go. He is simply a bad cop and unworthy of the badge he is wearing.
Yes ch_13….. and from some of what has been observed from proctor in print, verbally, evidence he handled or possessed, and testimony under both direct and cross, almost seems IMO that he displays ‘consciousness of guilt’. Hopefully one day soon what that is will be revealed. MOO
 
This makes sense to me. JM goes downstairs to look for BO. Finds out there was a fight. JO could have stumbled out or been forced to leave. Maybe the guys at the house legitimately didn’t know where he went, or assumed Karen was there too and drove him home. So she is texting - trying to find him and see if he is ok - maybe eventually also assumes he must have found a ride home.
Then at around 2:00 or so something happens because this is the next flurry of activity. I think this is when they found JO. NA went to bed - maybe she saw something on their own Ring camera? Maybe she let Chloe out one last time before bed and Chloe found him. BA calls BH, then BH calls him back. JM does her search, snowplow driver sees a car parked in the road but no body.
I really like your idea and in the light of JMc's calls which she persisted in denying and imo lying about, it gells for me. The only problem is Lucky's testimony re not seeing him passed out dying :( near the flag pole when he did his first pass with the plow at around 2.30am? I struggle to believe JO was physically transported to the lawn near flag pole and left there. But the idea that he was ejected from the house or yard after receiving injuries (including dog bite and clawing) and collapsed where he was found makes sense to me. Then he is seen there by BA or someone (just before or after Lucky passes with plow?) and this explains BA and BH's calls to eachother at 2.30ish? Then possibly Higgins (who was involved in the altercation earlier) gets in his ford edge and meets BA in front of flag pole to see if JO is alive and it's then that they decide to leave him as he was. This would mean in my mind that JMc did text 'hos long' from her place at 2.27am. If I subscribe to this theory then it's too much of a coincidence for me to believe the timing was wrong there.

I am still pondering some of the inconsistencies but your theory resonates strongly.
Jmo
 
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Those things are all guestimates though.
maybe??? but maybe not.

Karen Reads voice mails at the critical moment are FACT physical evidence. It happened.

Karen Read being in a rageful drunk abusive state at the very moment she last seen John can not be ignored.

It is the very most important detail in the case.
She was there...she was mad as hell.... she got outta dodge quick smart.

All the what ifs maybe....could be this could be that are not comparable to voice mails by Karen
exposing her lie about nothing being wrong.

moo
The wifi connection at JOK's home at 12:36 a.m. is not a "guesstimate", the Lexus key cycle log is not a "guesstimate", she did not back up at 24 mph while at 34F, those two facts prove it.

Yes she was drunk (like all of the rest of them that night) and angry that he seemed to be ignoring her yet again, but that does not prove she harmed him in any way.
 
The evidence can't be ignored; the key cycle log, the animal attack on his arm, the fact that she connected to his home's wifi when JMcC testified she saw KR in front of 34F, the fact that a 7000 lb. vehicle can't launch a 220 lb. man 30 feet in the air without at a bare minimum bruising whichever part of his body it connected with (which would be below his neck).

So much cannot just be shuffled aside because one doesn't like the type of person the accused is.
It's just unbelievably ironic to me that Lally's own expert proved JMc manuactured her testimony about the lexus.

The last time I said this was when Proctor was being subjected to cross examination: What in hell can Lally be thinking right now?

What did his mind do when his expert mentioned the home wifi connection at 12.36am? Because it's through his inanity in wanting KR voice mails in evidence that his own credibility with jury could now be teetering on the line. Unbelievable hubris in action! jmo
 
Those things are all guestimates though.
maybe??? but maybe not.

Karen Reads voice mails at the critical moment are FACT physical evidence. It happened.

Karen Read being in a rageful drunk abusive state at the very moment she last seen John can not be ignored.

It is the very most important detail in the case.
She was there...she was mad as hell.... she got outta dodge quick smart.

All the what ifs maybe....could be this could be that are not comparable to voice mails by Karen
exposing her lie about nothing being wrong.

moo
What the digital evidence shows is that almost immediately after he arrived at 34F, his self initiated, purposeful electronic presence stops. He didn't answer Karen and he didn't answer Jen. His GPS stops moving, he doesn't respond to texts or phone calls. This is the same time when her car records a ridiculous backward acceleration. Tail light pieces on the ground, on his shirt, his DNA on them. He was hit within a minute or 2 or arriving at the location.
 
John and Karen probably argued during their drive from Waterfall to Albert's home. John walked into Alberts' house very drunk and may have provoked a confrontation, resulting in his death. Karen was also very drunk. After dropping John off, she drove home and sent him hate-filled voice messages. I believe the ugly messages make Karen appear more innocent than guilty because John was likely already dead or dying in Albert's basement when the messages were sent. moo
 
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I was expecting some big bombshell moments after all the hype from the KR team, however not sure who was worse, the snowplow drivers questionable timeline or the IT expert who sounded confused about the program and the timestamps and actual searches! Lally did an amazing job on cross, and can't wait for his closing.
How do you feel about Dr Russel’s testimony?
 
snipped.

Since Michael Proctor is the lead investigator on this case, I will say that his thoughts on whether the voicemails display "consciousness of guilt" or not have zero weight with me. I understand that some people may consider his investigation to be unbiased. However, I 100% disagree. If there is one thing the evidence revealed in this trial it is that he was out to get Karen Read from the get-go. He is simply a bad cop and unworthy of the badge he is wearing.

Great point! Those that think KR is guilty totally ignore and/or day his text messages mean nothing, but then say her voice mails mean everything is a crazy mindset to me! His text messages show clear bias before the “investigation” even really began. Her voice mails show she thought he was alive and hooking up with another woman.
What the digital evidence shows is that almost immediately after he arrived at 34F, his self initiated, purposeful electronic presence stops. He didn't answer Karen and he didn't answer Jen. His GPS stops moving, he doesn't respond to texts or phone calls. This is the same time when her car records a ridiculous backward acceleration. Tail light pieces on the ground, on his shirt, his DNA on them. He was hit within a minute or 2 or arriving at the location.
Or he dropped his phone in the snow. Or he went in to the basement and has little cell coverage (like my basement). No “proof” here and another analyst disputed that “proof”
 
WHO deleted GPS location data off of Karen Read's phone, while it was in Trooper Proctor's possession???

WHY did the CW experts destroy the onboard data from Karen Read's SUV, which included GPS location data???
Rhetorical? Has to be Proctor himself imo. That was another surprise Lally got from his expert the other day. Was that under direct or cross when Guriano (sp?) was asked if anything had been deleted from KR's phone and the answer was, yes but only in April 2022?.

I missed the thing about lexus onboard data dissappearing or being destroyed. Do you happen to remember which trooper it was? Another dodgy AF occurence. It's just madness the incompetence and manipulation that went on during the investigation. moo
 
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